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[QUOTE=simbob4000;1093971]Network tv is full of far better tv shows than AoS. Hell, Hannibal was one of the best things on American tv last year. Being on network tv is no excuse for how bad it is. They didn't have to make the show about a C team of SHIELD agents no one cares about, they didn't have to make the main characters so uninteresting, and they could have had fun with that idea this was a team that didn't matter.[/QUOTE]
I was referring to the fact that network TV shows will never be the next Game of Thrones, Mad Men, or Peaky Blinders... Haven't seen Hannibal, but NCIS and CSI (two of the most popular network TV shows as I understand it) are not that different from AoS in terms of visuals, plot, and character development...
I personally don't find the main characters uniteresting, so can't really comment on that.
I meant that unlike Arrow and the Flash, Marvel decided not to tap its big name heroes and villains for the show. Was that a good decision? Not sure. But having made that decision, Marvel managed to make the show fairly engaging (imo) nonetheless.
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[QUOTE=AJBopp;1093560]In my mind it got underwhelming because of all the Inhumans stuff.[/QUOTE]
I'm actually with you on this.
I think the jump to the Inhumans for the second half of the season cut the legs out from the Hydra story line they had been building from in Season 1 and that they'd built up in the beginning of Season 2. So much wasted potential with Hydra brainwashing supervillains. Favorite parts of the season were seeing Creel and Blizzard on screen.
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If its not that Mockingbird TV show they were throwing around a while back, I'm not interested.
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[QUOTE=Luck911;1094098]AoS doesn't need big set pieces just a small tie with Avenger would be good for the health of the show.If they want GoT type rating a couple Avengers centric episode would give them numbers.[/QUOTE]
the problems with big guns are many. Big guns often don't or won't do TV. Movie studios often don't want their big guns exposed on TV as it risks lowering enthusiasm for movies rather than raising it for TV. A couple of cameos a season, or even a full-on guest role, are extremely unlikely to gain significant long-term interest in a TV show if the storyline isn't engaging (which it hasn't been for most of this season). And the big guns are going to look much less impressive, even cheap, on a small screen with limited effects where scenes need to get completed (acting and SFX) in hours rather than weeks.
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[QUOTE=Immortal Weapon;1094000]I'm thinking a spin-off with Lady Slf. I know it's a long shot but the character appear on the show twice already and she could shed some light on the inhumans for shield. Besides, I feel Thor's side of MCU can use some world building.[/QUOTE]
No way can they do Sif on an ABC budget.
And it's probably not Mockingbird since they only JUST promoted her to a season regular instead of a guest star.
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My guesses:
Deathlock; Reservations: Not sure the character gained enough traction to warrant their own series
Inhuman TV show; Reservations: Not sure Marvel wants to dilute the movie brand too much just yet
Lady Sif; Reservations: Will require a hefty budget, but they can have Lady Sif be an Agent of Asgard on Earth
Mockingbird; Reservations: Can they make her show distinct enough from AoS?
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[QUOTE=MatchesMalone;1094058]Yes they did need to make it a team of C/D/Z-listers. That was the [B]whole[/B] selling point of the show. A group of people that are working behind the scenes, that no one notices.
Coulson started at that role, sure his reputation has risen significantly since his first appearance, but he is still the everyman (usually).
If the show were to be about a team of pre-existing characters from the comics, then Marvel's movie side of things wouldn't be able to use those characters without working tightly with the TV show. Just like the movies now have to be built to help them to naturally avoid making it easy for the other Avengers to show up, the TV show [B]needs[/B] to be able to standalone and work on it's own internal storylines.
They knew when creating the show the impact of The Winter Soldier, they were already going to go down a similar path.
A show full of pre-existing characters would run through a lot of material very fast. The characters selected couldn't be directly tied to any pre-existing MCU Avenger or major character, they needed to have a built-in capacity for adventures, and they needed to be able to have those adventures without gathering the attention of the whole world.
AoS was built I think with very good foresight.[/QUOTE]
No, the whole selling point was: Marvel TV show...from the guy that made Marvel's The Avengers. The show being about characters that feel so unimportant to the goings on of their "world", and the show just generally being terrible, is likely why it was hemorrhaging viewers. You could also say the selling point was getting to see this spy organization that's been popping up in action, but instead of following characters that seemingly matter...you know, like stuff usually does, where just following some Z team. Following a Z team wouldn't need to be a bad thing, Brooklyn Nine-Nine does this, but that show also understands it's about a Z team.
I said nothing at all about the show needing to be about pre-existing characters. Although the idea that they would run out of material fast if it were that is silly, like they couldn't just make up things for them to do.
Coulson was never an everyman character. He was Tony's straight man, he was the guy unfazed by everything he saw...everything. Then Whedon came along and messed that up by making him a bubbly Cap fanboy, and giving him quippy things to say, and just making the character kind of goofy.
Yeah, they had great foresight. It's why nothing at all happened for most of the first season. I know Winter Soldier was something that changed the show, but that doesn't mean nothing should have been going on before.
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[QUOTE=Ceebiro;1094135]I'm actually with you on this.
I think the jump to the Inhumans for the second half of the season cut the legs out from the Hydra story line they had been building from in Season 1 and that they'd built up in the beginning of Season 2. So much wasted potential with Hydra brainwashing supervillains. Favorite parts of the season were seeing Creel and Blizzard on screen.[/QUOTE]
Inhumans is hard to pull off without movie and Royal family in play.A Gorgon or Karnak cameo at the end of this current Inhumans storyline would have huge postive spin for story.
I get the need to build a compelling world without the big guns but the right amount use from the big guns would go along way.
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There's no way it's a coincidence that they keep Deathlok a surprise and then right after he reappears there's word of a spinoff that will come from future episodes. I would be very surprised if it's not him.
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[QUOTE=simbob4000;1094221]No, the whole selling point was: Marvel TV show...from the guy that made Marvel's The Avengers. The show being about characters that feel so unimportant to the goings on of their "world", and the show just generally being terrible, is likely why it was hemorrhaging viewers. You could also say the selling point was getting to see this spy organization that's been popping up in action, but instead of following characters that seemingly matter...you know, like stuff usually does, where just following some Z team. Following a Z team wouldn't need to be a bad thing, Brooklyn Nine-Nine does this, but that show also understands it's about a Z team.
I said nothing at all about the show needing to be about pre-existing characters. Although the idea that they would run out of material fast if it were that is silly, like they couldn't just make up things for them to do.
Coulson was never an everyman character. He was Tony's straight man, he was the guy unfazed by everything he saw...everything. Then Whedon came along and messed that up by making him a bubbly Cap fanboy, and giving him quippy things to say, and just making the character kind of goofy.
Yeah, they had great foresight. It's why nothing at all happened for most of the first season. I know Winter Soldier was something that changed the show, but that doesn't mean nothing should have been going on before.[/QUOTE]
Brooklyn Nine-Nine is a comedy skit type of show... AoS is action-adventure, so I don't think that would work unless you made AoS a comedy skit type of show.
Just because you don't like the show doesn't mean the show is terrible.
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[QUOTE=solletaire;1094116]I was referring to the fact that network TV shows will never be the next Game of Thrones, Mad Men, or Peaky Blinders... Haven't seen Hannibal, but NCIS and CSI (two of the most popular network TV shows as I understand it) are not that different from AoS in terms of visuals, plot, and character development...
I personally don't find the main characters uniteresting, so can't really comment on that.
I meant that unlike Arrow and the Flash, Marvel decided not to tap its big name heroes and villains for the show. Was that a good decision? Not sure. But having made that decision, Marvel managed to make the show fairly engaging (imo) nonetheless.[/QUOTE]
Yes, there's bad stuff on network tv, (lots of it on CBS) and some of that bad stuff does really well, that doesn't mean there isn't also good stuff. There's also lots of bad stuff on cable, but wouldn't say cable shows are all bad just because stuff like The Walking Dead is crap.
I watched a little of Peaky Blinders, just seems like Lawless the tv shows. It wasn't bad or anything, but Lawless is so much better I'm not sure why I just wouldn't watch that.
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[QUOTE=Luck911;1094227]Inhumans is hard to pull off without movie and Royal family in play.[/QUOTE]
Not really. The Royal Family are only a necessity if they're specifically instituting the pre-existing comic continuity which they clearly aren't. The baseline concept of the Inhumans--an entire class of people descended from a centuries-old alien genetic weapons program with the potential for incredible powers hidden in their DNA--doesn't require a Royal Family. There would need to be some sort of leadership to drive the quest to find, gather, and protect recruits but it wouldn't specifically need to be Black Bolt, Medusa, et al. Gordon and Skye's mom seem perfectly suited to fill that role. The whole point of the Royal Family in the comics is that they serve as a unifying element over a nation of Inhumans that has been gathered and building a single, united culture over the course of centuries. But that doesn't appear to be what we have in AOS.
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[QUOTE=Rstay99;1093528]Hmm. That may not be good for Agent Carter, which was a far better show than AoS has ever been.[/QUOTE]
Agent Carter is great but that isn't remotely true after what AoS has been this season.
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[QUOTE=simbob4000;1093762]Why? The show stinks and the ratings aren't anything special. I could see making another Marvel show, but why a spin-off of this garbage?[/QUOTE]
The show became good/great around the halfway point last season and has been completely awesome this year. Doesn't sound like you watch it.
Also, it's one of ABC's top performing shows so uh, the ratings are fine.
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[QUOTE=simbob4000;1094250]Yes, there's bad stuff on network tv, (lots of it on CBS) and some of that bad stuff does really well, that doesn't mean there isn't also good stuff. There's also lots of bad stuff on cable, but wouldn't say cable shows are all bad just because stuff like The Walking Dead is crap.
I watched a little of Peaky Blinders, just seems like Lawless the tv shows. It wasn't bad or anything, but Lawless is so much better I'm not sure why I just wouldn't watch that.[/QUOTE]
I won't judge a show as being "bad" just because I don't like it, though... I hate House of Cards, but I am more than willing to admit it's very well put together and has amazing actor performances... It's just not for me
I am sure a lot of people will disagree re The Walking Dead.
Haven't seen Lawless, but I don't think you can make a statement like the one you made after seeing "a little" of the show... Why would I bother watching Hannibal when I can just watch Silence of the Lambs, the Academy Award winning movie?
anyway we're going off topic with this line of thought. Obviously we have different tastes in television.
Even ignoring Peaky Blinders, we still can't expect AoS to be on the level of Game of Thrones and Mad Men... that argument stands, AoS is succeeding in being what it set out to be when the show was conceived...