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I know where you're coming from. They could've at least left Mattie Franklin alive at the end of Silk's tie-in. She could've then appeared in Spectacular Spider-Man, since Jameson is a major character there, or in Spider-Man/Deadpool which is where Silk ended up. The other major return, of course, was 616 Gwen, who at least went out in a way that would make 65 Gwen proud (helping Peter). The one return, other than Ben Reilly, that did stick of course was Doc Ock.
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[QUOTE=Digifiend;3903484]I know where you're coming from. They could've at least left Mattie Franklin alive at the end of Silk's tie-in. She could've then appeared in Spectacular Spider-Man, since Jameson is a major character there, or in Spider-Man/Deadpool which is where Silk ended up. The other major return, of course, was 616 Gwen, who at least went out in a way that would make 65 Gwen proud (helping Peter). The one return, other than Ben Reilly, that did stick of course was Doc Ock.[/QUOTE]
Similar to what is being written about currently in the MJ fan thread that also involved a character version of MJ that many loved who so also happen to be born by science (aka clone which to me isn't a accurate term as people as soon as a independent choice is made move foward as their own person) and then died breaking people's hearts I feeling this here also applies. To how I feel about this.
I know the matters about talking or writing about character being depending on how you see them either born by science or resurrected is it's own 'can of worms'. People will have a difference of option and this all goes towards matters of mind/experiences, body, and soul (and soul rarely gets covered yet is the de facto answer to the problem) plus either alterations and interpretations just from even multiverse versions.
That said a good soul and character is still a good soul and character and the powers of imagination could evolve and give them so many possibilities and even further fan love of the individuals. To be given respect and treated to matter is not just reverential but should be a basis for how people treat others even if they might be different.
Now it's fine for like people here the character having different views. Cindy Moon saw Mattie Franklin AS Mattie Franklin and worried for her and cried when she died. Come next issue Cindy is burying her in a grave and crying apologizing for failing her. Rarely have I seen anything close to a funeral for some back by or born by science yet Cindy treated Mattie and others to MATTER. This left my a positive feeling towards Cindy. Not happy Mattie died for many reasons but I might get to that later.
"The other major return, of course, was 616 Gwen, who at least went out in a way that would make 65 Gwen proud (helping Peter). The one return, other than Ben Reilly, that did stick of course was Doc Ock."
As Peter says in either issue #5 of CC "Of course they did. That's the rule. Villains get to come back' and "You deserve better than this Gwen Stacy. Better than me. I'd hoped for once..."
That said I WISHED that that Gwen and 65 Gwen would of interacted. The only thing they got was 65 kidnapping CC/616 Gwen and CC/616 Gwen seeing 65 Gwen in her costume falling to save Kaine. CC/616 Gwen saying that 65 Gwen was a 'upgrade' but Peter telling her that CC/616 Gwen was good as she was.
I really wished CC/616 Gwen not just lived (and to be honest with Peter having a company at the time he would of had now the resources and conditions to help make new documents the others that came back/born from CC to be able to have their own life (birth certificate, SSN, other important documents in order to not just live but have a life)). She was brave and I liked her alot. The matters of if she truly version one 616 Gwen resurrected/healed up by science or new version/irritation Gwen Stacy from 616 would be defunct once time goes by and we only care about the character in front of us.
Also maybe this Gwen would come to understand it might not matter and maybe she would just live a life and be a good person to help others. With a mindset by her that she'll find out once she's dead and her soul goes to heaven by higher powers if she was version one 616 Gwen Stacy or if version one 616 Gwen Stacy will be there to welcome her and say that she's a proud sister. (Seeing this mindset in cute humorous chibi form with CC/616 Gwen responding to both outcomes with her happily responding with a 'Yay!')
Also having a actual talk with 65 Gwen and CC/616 Gwen would of been great.
For all the talk of 65 Gwen stating she (CC/616 Gwen) wasn't 'real' (which I always saw that response not just insulting but stupid and shows the one saying it only thinks a person born by being birth by another human that got F***** by another has to be the only way a soul counts and anybody else is 'lessor' for it) simply as 65 Gwen not thinking CC/616 Gwen is version one well the same applies that while CC/616 Gwen might be a alternative Gwen Stacy SO IS Earth 65 Gwen. The difference is matters of identity and how one feels about herself and having to suffer matters of existential crisis that just being assaulted by others as well.
Many people have existential crisis come midlife crisis.
To me I'm a fan of Earth 65 Gwen Stacy but her reactions and consent statements of 'real' rubbed me the wrong way. She got a bit of emotional karma I felt when Earth 65 Gwen felt cold shouldered by 616 Peter (after Peter failed to save so many lives that night which always hurts Peter and that 65 Gwen didn't seem to share in the grief or understanding people died that night only looking for a win). Earth 65 Gwen stated that Peter treated her like she wasn't real. Welcome to that feeling 65 Gwen. Maybe you see with new eyes how that feels whenever you are bashing somebody who is a clone and gets that by everybody they meet. It's not nice. Hopefully this will make you...
[IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/QblT-RUQp4W-z9-IWwzGkKpAo4hTmw2pGp9q9ODnis2lL5y5esudpp2Gd4JxXOh7hNY6fdVOHXORXGNs4BVtkCoGlQArpxVL309Mo0DANVhlkdssAIOsNuXc7EHjXb8Qour9Rg=s0[/IMG]
"He acted like that other Gwen was the real one, or, at least, more real than me."
Correction 65 Gwen. BOTH OF YOU ARE REAL! That 'other' Gwen was real as you are. Both of you should be treated with respect and to matter and be mourned when lost. Peter was mourning and hurting. Can't you see that. That other Gwen was real and a great person herself but you never took the time to KNOW HER but so quick to judge her.
Earth 65 Gwen would go on to bash other Gwen Stacy versions in the Multiverse that was born or brought back by cloning/science in her own series that left a bad taste in my mouth. I like the writer of Spider-Gwen series but he looks down upon characters that are also so happens to be in existence because they were 'clones' and those tales it seems. When Earth-65 Gwen was sent to not just to another dimension but also to the past of 616 that transformed and shifted it into 617 Earth (due to time paradox the Multiverse split the 616 Earth into two separate Earths (or should we count that as cloning :) ) made that Earth that Earth 65 Gwen was sent to 617) 617 also attack cloning charters and would of bashed Earth 65 Gwen if she was a clone alternative but since she wasn't but a Multiverse alternate that made all the differance.
This mindset I feel infects how writers feel about characters born by science or back by science as expendable and not worthy or grieving for. To not matter. Not 'REAL'. But they are character and should be treated like humans by others. Not doing so is disrespectful and makes the one doing the disrespect look negative and follows a '-ism' I feel. To allow to exist and have wonderful storylines and become a character we love for being them.
Ultimate Gwen Stacy when she came back was treat to matter by the cast and Jessica Drew of 1610 also has a huge fanase because she was treated as such.
Even Dan Scott made a 'clone story' in his Sliver Surfer run where in the end they were treated to matter and lived. At the end of the run the Silver Surfer is telling the whole series story to them all. It's shocking how respectful and treated them to matter in that series with 1-2 issues then in the Spider-man run where many characters die and treated with at best a 'oh well' by some other characters.
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[video=youtube;Gd4LnHD68sk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd4LnHD68sk[/video]
wow watchmojo must really hate OMD lol another video today
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[img]https://img.purch.com/h/1400/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yMzcvMjgzL29yaWdpbmFsL1NQSUdJUkxTMjAxODAwMV92YXJfRGVrYWwuanBnPzE1MzcyODUyODI[/img]
[quote]SPIDER-GIRLS #3 (of 3)
JODY HOUSER (W) • ANDRES GENOLET (A)
Cover by YASMINE PUTRI
VARIANT COVER BY TBA
A SPIDER-GEDDON TIE-IN!
• The Spider-Girls have found a way to turn the tide of Spider-Geddon!
• First they’ll need to fight past Inheritors Brix and Bora to rejoin the Spider-Army!
• Then will the cure be worse for the Web of Life and Destiny than the Inheritors’ disease?
32 PGS./Rated T …$3.99[/quote]
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[QUOTE=juan678;3890833][IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/10eq9ef.jpg[/IMG]
Spider-Girls #1 variant cover - May “Mayday” Parker, Anya Corazon, Annie May Parker, by Jeff Dekal[/QUOTE]Uh... apparently it's NOT a variant?
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[QUOTE=Miles To Go;3909396][img]https://img.purch.com/h/1400/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8yMzcvMjgzL29yaWdpbmFsL1NQSUdJUkxTMjAxODAwMV92YXJfRGVrYWwuanBnPzE1MzcyODUyODI[/img][/QUOTE]
I love how Annie arguably the least popular of the three is so much larger on the cover than the other two. :D
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[QUOTE=Celgress;3909488]I love how Annie arguably the least popular of the three is so much larger on the cover than the other two. :D[/QUOTE]
Is Annie really less popular than Anya?
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[QUOTE=millernumber1;3909507]Is Annie really less popular than Anya?[/QUOTE]
I think so (especially with the new Animated Series). For example, my younger relatives and their friends know who Anya and Mayday are, but not Annie (sadly, the same goes for Spinneret v. Ghost Spider; they know the latter but not the former).
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[QUOTE=millernumber1;3909507]Is Annie really less popular than Anya?[/QUOTE]
Annie doesn't appear in the cartoons or movies or anything.
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[QUOTE=Kevinroc;3909535]Annie doesn't appear in the cartoons or movies or anything.[/QUOTE]
Annie's appeared in the Unlimited mobile game, but that's about it.
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[QUOTE=Miles To Go;3909574]Annie's appeared in the Unlimited mobile game, but that's about it.[/QUOTE]
I got banned from that game for no reason and forgot all about it.
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[QUOTE=Celgress;3909520]I think so (especially with the new Animated Series). For example, my younger relatives and their friends know who Anya and Mayday are, but not Annie (sadly, the same goes for Spinneret v. Ghost Spider; they know the latter but not the former).[/QUOTE]
Ah, I didn't know about Anya being in a cartoon.
Is it bad that I don't really care about people knowing about Spinneret, as long as they know classic MJ? :)
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[QUOTE=millernumber1;3909651]Ah, I didn't know about Anya being in a cartoon.
Is it bad that I don't really care about people knowing about Spinneret, as long as they know classic MJ? :)[/QUOTE]
In a way, RYV is classic MJ also...just with years of motherly and superhero experiance.
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[QUOTE=Miles To Go;3909680]In a way, RYV is classic MJ also...just with years of motherly and superhero experiance.[/QUOTE]
In a way, I'll grant you, but there aren't enough really great moments for MJ in RYV (because of weak writing and the over-focus on Annie) for me to be that attached. I do love the way Stegman drew her, and Houser gave her a really great moment with Annie telling her about May, but it's a bit too little, too late (assuming that the title is done).
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[QUOTE=AngelJD;3903622]Similar to what is being written about currently in the MJ fan thread that also involved a character version of MJ that many loved who so also happen to be born by science (aka clone which to me isn't a accurate term as people as soon as a independent choice is made move foward as their own person) and then died breaking people's hearts I feeling this here also applies. To how I feel about this.
I know the matters about talking or writing about character being depending on how you see them either born by science or resurrected is it's own 'can of worms'. People will have a difference of option and this all goes towards matters of mind/experiences, body, and soul (and soul rarely gets covered yet is the de facto answer to the problem) plus either alterations and interpretations just from even multiverse versions.
That said a good soul and character is still a good soul and character and the powers of imagination could evolve and give them so many possibilities and even further fan love of the individuals. To be given respect and treated to matter is not just reverential but should be a basis for how people treat others even if they might be different.
Now it's fine for like people here the character having different views. Cindy Moon saw Mattie Franklin AS Mattie Franklin and worried for her and cried when she died. Come next issue Cindy is burying her in a grave and crying apologizing for failing her. Rarely have I seen anything close to a funeral for some back by or born by science yet Cindy treated Mattie and others to MATTER. This left my a positive feeling towards Cindy. Not happy Mattie died for many reasons but I might get to that later.
"The other major return, of course, was 616 Gwen, who at least went out in a way that would make 65 Gwen proud (helping Peter). The one return, other than Ben Reilly, that did stick of course was Doc Ock."
As Peter says in either issue #5 of CC "Of course they did. That's the rule. Villains get to come back' and "You deserve better than this Gwen Stacy. Better than me. I'd hoped for once..."
That said I WISHED that that Gwen and 65 Gwen would of interacted. The only thing they got was 65 kidnapping CC/616 Gwen and CC/616 Gwen seeing 65 Gwen in her costume falling to save Kaine. CC/616 Gwen saying that 65 Gwen was a 'upgrade' but Peter telling her that CC/616 Gwen was good as she was.
I really wished CC/616 Gwen not just lived (and to be honest with Peter having a company at the time he would of had now the resources and conditions to help make new documents the others that came back/born from CC to be able to have their own life (birth certificate, SSN, other important documents in order to not just live but have a life)). She was brave and I liked her alot. The matters of if she truly version one 616 Gwen resurrected/healed up by science or new version/irritation Gwen Stacy from 616 would be defunct once time goes by and we only care about the character in front of us.
Also maybe this Gwen would come to understand it might not matter and maybe she would just live a life and be a good person to help others. With a mindset by her that she'll find out once she's dead and her soul goes to heaven by higher powers if she was version one 616 Gwen Stacy or if version one 616 Gwen Stacy will be there to welcome her and say that she's a proud sister. (Seeing this mindset in cute humorous chibi form with CC/616 Gwen responding to both outcomes with her happily responding with a 'Yay!')
Also having a actual talk with 65 Gwen and CC/616 Gwen would of been great.
For all the talk of 65 Gwen stating she (CC/616 Gwen) wasn't 'real' (which I always saw that response not just insulting but stupid and shows the one saying it only thinks a person born by being birth by another human that got F***** by another has to be the only way a soul counts and anybody else is 'lessor' for it) simply as 65 Gwen not thinking CC/616 Gwen is version one well the same applies that while CC/616 Gwen might be a alternative Gwen Stacy SO IS Earth 65 Gwen. The difference is matters of identity and how one feels about herself and having to suffer matters of existential crisis that just being assaulted by others as well.
Many people have existential crisis come midlife crisis.
To me I'm a fan of Earth 65 Gwen Stacy but her reactions and consent statements of 'real' rubbed me the wrong way. She got a bit of emotional karma I felt when Earth 65 Gwen felt cold shouldered by 616 Peter (after Peter failed to save so many lives that night which always hurts Peter and that 65 Gwen didn't seem to share in the grief or understanding people died that night only looking for a win). Earth 65 Gwen stated that Peter treated her like she wasn't real. Welcome to that feeling 65 Gwen. Maybe you see with new eyes how that feels whenever you are bashing somebody who is a clone and gets that by everybody they meet. It's not nice. Hopefully this will make you...
"He acted like that other Gwen was the real one, or, at least, more real than me."
Correction 65 Gwen. BOTH OF YOU ARE REAL! That 'other' Gwen was real as you are. Both of you should be treated with respect and to matter and be mourned when lost. Peter was mourning and hurting. Can't you see that. That other Gwen was real and a great person herself but you never took the time to KNOW HER but so quick to judge her.
Earth 65 Gwen would go on to bash other Gwen Stacy versions in the Multiverse that was born or brought back by cloning/science in her own series that left a bad taste in my mouth. I like the writer of Spider-Gwen series but he looks down upon characters that are also so happens to be in existence because they were 'clones' and those tales it seems. When Earth-65 Gwen was sent to not just to another dimension but also to the past of 616 that transformed and shifted it into 617 Earth (due to time paradox the Multiverse split the 616 Earth into two separate Earths (or should we count that as cloning :) ) made that Earth that Earth 65 Gwen was sent to 617) 617 also attack cloning charters and would of bashed Earth 65 Gwen if she was a clone alternative but since she wasn't but a Multiverse alternate that made all the differance.
This mindset I feel infects how writers feel about characters born by science or back by science as expendable and not worthy or grieving for. To not matter. Not 'REAL'. But they are character and should be treated like humans by others. Not doing so is disrespectful and makes the one doing the disrespect look negative and follows a '-ism' I feel. To allow to exist and have wonderful storylines and become a character we love for being them.
Ultimate Gwen Stacy when she came back was treat to matter by the cast and Jessica Drew of 1610 also has a huge fanase because she was treated as such.
Even Dan Scott made a 'clone story' in his Sliver Surfer run where in the end they were treated to matter and lived. At the end of the run the Silver Surfer is telling the whole series story to them all. It's shocking how respectful and treated them to matter in that series with 1-2 issues then in the Spider-man run where many characters die and treated with at best a 'oh well' by some other characters.[/QUOTE]
I love so much of what you're saying here, because I really, really hate the way so many writers treat clones in their scifi or fantasy.
Clones, as you say, are not just a copy of a person - they're an identical twin. I do believe in souls, and thus I find the whole "they have the "original's" memories, thus they are the same person" to be complete nonsense. And it's a really cheap way to try to resurrect dead characters.
Love your thoughts on Mattie Franklin - and I, also came out of Clone Conspiracy thinking well of Cindy, despite not really knowing much about her.
Whenever someone calls a clone "not real" it really rubs me the wrong way. Because you wouldn't say that an identical twin wasn't real. I don't recall the stuff with the two Gwens interacting, but I think your thoughts here are spot on as well.