Shazam #4 Discussion/Spoilers

... This touches me in a very personal way but definitely not in a positive one.

I've lost someone extremely close to me this year, someone very important to me. It was a very hard time enduring the sickness for me and especially for her, she was incredibly strong during that time and I wish I can have half the same strength if that ever happens to me.

So with that in mind this will be the first time I don't censor a swear word: WHAT THE **** DOES THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH PRIDE?!

What you feel when someone close to you is dying is extreme sadness for what's happening to that person, you do everything in your power to help not because of pride, but because you care about them and don't want them to keep suffering.

Why is Pride even mentioned here really? Because Tim Sheridan needed to poorly justify the precense of one of the Seven Deadly Sins as an antagonist for Billy because of what's happening to his friend/brother Freddy. Is obvious that Sheridan just wanted to tell a story about the death of Freddy but didn't knew how to properly include it into the Teen Titans Academy spinoff he so wanted to promote and so, he decided to connect everything in the loosest way possible without realizing that tackling an idea this manner is borderline offensive (Oh, and the constant dumb jokes before that serious scene certainly didn't make me feel any better about it).

Not to mention that I sure as hell didn't want someone like Sheridan to handle the killing of a classic character to try to make this book "relevant" in some way and the worst thing is that do you know who actually survives here? That Teen Titans Academy character that was forced here because I really needed more reasons to hate this.

Clayton Henry's expressive artwork is good but I'm sorry, I just can't give more credit to this book.

One of the worst things that I've read this year. I profoundly detest this.

...They killed Freddy?

[QUOTE=Frontier;5781206]...They killed Freddy?[/QUOTE]

Apparently so.

[QUOTE=Rakzo;5781191]... This touches me in a very personal way but definitely not in a positive one.

I've lost someone extremely close to me this year, someone very important to me. It was a very hard time enduring the sickness for me and especially for her, she was incredibly strong during that time and I wish I can have half the same strength if that ever happens to me.

So with that in mind this will be the first time I don't censor a swear word: WHAT THE **** DOES THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH PRIDE?!

What you feel when someone close to you is dying is extreme sadness for what's happening to that person, you do everything in your power to help not because of pride, but because you care about them and don't want them to keep suffering.

Why is Pride even mentioned here really? Because Tim Sheridan needed to poorly justify the precense of one of the Seven Deadly Sins as an antagonist for Billy because of what's happening to his friend/brother Freddy. Is obvious that Sheridan just wanted to tell a story about the death of Freddy but didn't knew how to properly include it into the Teen Titans Academy spinoff he so wanted to promote and so, he decided to connect everything in the loosest way possible without realizing that tackling an idea this manner is borderline offensive (Oh, and the constant dumb jokes before that serious scene certainly didn't make me feel any better about it).

Not to mention that I sure as hell didn't want someone like Sheridan to handle the killing of a classic character to try to make this book "relevant" in some way and the worst thing is that do you know who actually survives here? That Teen Titans Academy character that was forced here because I really needed more reasons to hate this.

Clayton Henry's expressive artwork is good but I'm sorry, I just can't give more credit to this book.

One of the worst things that I've read this year. I profoundly detest this.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Frontier;5781206]...They killed Freddy?[/QUOTE]

Wait, the way I read it, the thing with Freddy "dying" was all an illusion caused by the sin. The Sin created the illusion and made himself appear as Freddy to to try and trick Billy into sharing his power with him. Billy realized it wasn't real (Freddy having evil glowing eyes demanding the power probably tipped him off), and defeated the sin by showing he was willing to let go, not that Freddy actually died.

Though they don't actually address what the real Freddy's status is, but it's a little early to jump to conclusions. I think they could have more clearly established the real Freddy's death if he actually die.

[QUOTE=Artemisfanboy;5781230]Wait, the way I read it, the thing with Freddy "dying" was all an illusion caused by the sin. The Sin created the illusion and made himself appear as Freddy to to try and trick Billy into sharing his power with him. Billy realized it wasn't real (Freddy having evil glowing eyes demanding the power probably tipped him off), and defeated the sin by showing he was willing to let go, not that Freddy actually died.

Though they don't actually address what the real Freddy's status is, but it's a little early to jump to conclusions. I think they could have more clearly established the real Freddy's death if he actually die.[/QUOTE]

Well, I would hope that they retcon this and Freddy didn't actually die but at the same time it would make this book pretty pointless.

Anyway, is still an extremely poorly handled idea.

[QUOTE=Rakzo;5781241]Well, I would hope that they retcon this and Freddy didn't actually die but at the same time it would make this book pretty pointless.

Anyway, is still an extremely poorly handled idea.[/QUOTE]

Well, I don't think it would count as a retcon, because I don't think Freddy is actually dead, and that wasn't their intent. It's was just an illusionary test of character(a poorly thought out and constructed one I'd agree). That's what I'm assuming for now until we get confirmation otherwise.

As for the point of the series, I think it's mainly meant to set up a way to avert the Future State fates of the Titans, Shazam, and the Flash family.

Yeah it felt like just setting up Dane and Shazam for later stories to come...and for some reason keep around a second Black Adam?

Because all that happened was Billy gets his powers back, stays in hell to help Adam, learns about the possible Future State and then Dane is up to something,

Freddie isn't dead. He's dying. We don't know if Billy sharing his magic with him will save him or kill him...yet

Given that there's another Shazam movie coming out with Freddie in it, I'm betting on him surviving ;)

This series really fell apart for me in the final issue. The way Billy rationalizes that he has to let go of Freddy is a cold, calculated move that's alien to all my years of reading Billy Batson and I can't say the surprise of it made the story better.

Billy's a good kid. He won't simply surrender someone to fate. That's not why the Wizard chose him.

I know what Sheridan wanted to do here: he wanted Billy to lose some innocence and move forward, essentially making Freddy his Pa Kent.



Thing is, Pa Kent dies to something Clark can't stop. Freddy's death can possibly be prevented, but Billy is letting his best friend die to learn a lesson rather than try to save someone (and if he fails, he learns the lesson anyway). There's no question what the right thing to do is-- save Freddy-- but the book posits that Billy's maturing is more important than saving Freddy Freeman.

I'm sorry, that's not Billy Batson. That's not Shazam. I'm out.

[QUOTE=Robanker;5785597]This series really fell apart for me in the final issue. The way Billy rationalizes that he has to let go of Freddy is a cold, calculated move that's alien to all my years of reading Billy Batson and I can't say the surprise of it made the story better.

Billy's a good kid. He won't simply surrender someone to fate. That's now why the Wizard chose him.

I know what Sheridan wanted to do here: he wanted Billy to lose some innocence and move forward, essentially making Freddy his Pa Kent.



Thing is, Pa Kent dies to something Clark can't stop. Freddy's death can possibly be prevented, but Billy is letting his best friend die to learn a lesson rather than try to save someone (and if he fails, he learns the lesson anyway). There's no question what the right thing to do is-- save Freddy-- but the book posits that Billy's maturing is more important than saving Freddy Freeman.

I'm sorry, that's not Billy Batson. That's not Shazam. I'm out.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. You articulated it in a way I never could. This is not Billy at all and I hate how this is still tied to Titans.

Reading this, we have:

1) Billy learning the lesson that there is a no-win scenario. The sin of Pride is appropriate here, because, in a possible future, Billy was convinced that he could fix everything by himself, thus causing the end of existence. He had to let go of the fact that he needs the help of others, in which there may be hope that he can both save the world AND Freddy. Using magic to wish away the problem will not solve either crisis, thus setting up the next arc in TITANS ACADEMY. The criticism for me is that it would take multiple readings to figure any of this out, as far as the intent of the author.

2) I really wished that the other kids were involved, and the series was longer, my only complaint.

Good overall, but way too short for this type of story.

I didn't get the impression that Freddy died but regardless walked away from this title extremely disappointed. That it feeds into Titans Academy did not help.

[QUOTE=JLH;5790633]I didn't get the impression that Freddy died but regardless walked away from this title extremely disappointed. That it feeds into Titans Academy did not help.[/QUOTE]

we may get further resolution in Titans academy issue 10 when shazzam comes back. Dane is getting an arc and i cant wait for him