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I voted yes mainly because of the timeline and the idea of a DC heroic legacy spanning 'Generations' in-universe. I was pretty indifferent to 5G and the replacement heroes honestly...in fact, I was more intrigued by the possibility of having books set in different generations (for instance, a 2G book with the classic Dynamic Duo alongside a 4G book with Bruce and Damian and a 5G book with Luke Fox as Batman).
They still seem to be keeping aspects of it with whatever Generations 'Future State' ends up being, plus the Golden Age Wonder Woman. But the promise of a multi-generational DC line seems dead in the water, sadly.
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I was really looking forward to the shake-up, would do a lot to interest me in getting back into different corners of DC if everything was all new and fresh. Would it have turned out okay? Who knows, all I know is that I don't have very high hopes for things as is either way since I'm not reading anything DC anymore except the Doom Metal story right now. At the very least, a lot of the people who were in charge of the things that turned me away from DC are gone now, so things could turn out better.
Besides that, giving characters a concrete beginning and end point to their stories with a timeline would've been amazing. All I want is to not see my favourite characters destroyed for whatever reason, it would've done so much for me to know they had their time to be heroes and any time someone wants to do a story about them, they can just write a new one set during a set timeframe. Gives every character and every story space. Instead... we're sticking with whatever nonsense we have now from the looks of it. Not expecting anything great out of the Death Metal aftermath either.
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Actually I CANT say yes or no...
Problem is that you also have to look WHO are the replacements.
1. Replacements are good, but I didnt like the replacements for Batman,Superman and Flash.
2. It depends also which origin etc. they have.
Cassandra has for example 2 different origins..
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No, I've had all my favourite male heroes in DC killed off and replaced at one point, so it is an experience I do not wish to repeat.
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Poll Question -
I voted No! Replacing established characters isn't the answer! The answer is to build new more diverse characters from the ground up, a la Static or Miles or Kamala from Marvel.
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[QUOTE=Celgress;5151577]Poll Question -
I voted No! Replacing established characters isn't the answer! The answer is to build new more diverse characters from the ground up, a la Static or Miles or Kamala from Marvel.[/QUOTE]
Miles and Kamala were replacements though
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[QUOTE=Samm;5151583]Miles and Kamala were replacements though[/QUOTE]
Yes, but the reason they worked and Riri (for example) hasn't is because they have fleshed out character traits, fully developed backstories, unique supporting casts, & different power-sets (more so Kamala than Miles), which has moved them beyond their initial stand-in status.
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I wonder if the plans for Luke and Jon will be repurposed or altogether discarded. I think Luke has untapped potential as a character and licensed property. The Bat-Family hasn't had a Black character really stick like the Robins or Batgirl, and they've tried several times--from Orpheus to Michael Lane to Signal. Unlike the others, Luke has a connection through an family member (Lucius), not unlike Barbara does through Jim Gordon. The Batman Beyond prototype is too much of a break from the present-day Batman-branded stories, making him more like Iron Man than a Bat character. Besides reconfiguring his fight style and power level back to his MMA roots, he also needs a personality/relationship niche in the Bat family that doesn't make him redundant. Dick is the perfect/favorite son, Jason is the prodigal bad boy, Tim is the smart, quieter professional, Damian is the tiny upstart, and Barbara is the cyber wiz-kid. Maybe Luke can be a talented vehicle engineer, have ties to Wayne Enterprises corporate schemes through his father, or something. He needs a real motivation besides old-fashioned good-guy. Dust him up a bit, weather him to make him interesting-- Don't make him a Gary Stu with nothing to do. Maybe add the soldier backstory from the DCAMU.
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[QUOTE=Celgress;5151586]Yes, but the reason they worked and Riri (for example) hasn't is because they have fleshed out character traits, fully developed backstories, unique supporting casts, & different power-sets (more so Kamala than Miles), which has moved them beyond their initial stand-in status.[/QUOTE]
I think the best to sum it is the difference between Riri, Kamala, and Miles are Kamala and Miles had a better story than Riri in their first year. I don't mean by that Riri's first year is bad, it was good as far as I can tell, but it just lacks that character-driven story, because Riri story while same like Miles facilitated by their predecessor, Riri doesn't have any character-driven story to prove herself as a character. Instead, she got herself a nice Tony Stark story which is quite weird if you ask me. So it just returns again to what kind of story to tell these character.
I always believe that Legacy is one of the ways to look into brand through another lens if it's done right. The best example is Miles has a different PoV from Peter because their origins are different, but they have the same predicament that resulted in a different way because Miles is different from Peter. DING a new thing from the old formula. So it's really just the story, the story from the team (writer, artist, inker, letterer, and editor) dictate what legacy will mean to the franchise at the end.
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[QUOTE=Celgress;5151577]Poll Question -
I voted No! Replacing established characters isn't the answer! The answer is to build new more diverse characters from the ground up, a la Static or Miles or Kamala from Marvel.[/QUOTE]
I agree with that. Black Panther and John Stewart have both been around over or close to 50 years. One has become immensly popular with their own movie, and running series, the other is a duplicate hero waiting some 30 years to get another run. More people out there are familiar with Storm than John Stewart.
Meanwhile Black Lightning and Luke Cage have/ (or have had) popular shows running on Netflix.
Creative originals trumps duplicates everytime.
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[QUOTE=The no face guy;5151731]I agree with that. Black Panther and John Stewart have both been around over or close to 50 years. One has become immensly popular with their own movie, and running series, the other is a duplicate hero waiting some 30 years to get another run. More people out there are familiar with Storm than John Stewart.
Meanwhile Black Lightning and Luke Cage have/ (or have had) popular shows running on Netflix.
Creative originals trumps duplicates everytime.[/QUOTE]
DC doesn’t have any popular original POC characters, all of their most popular ones are legacy characters. John Stewart, Jaime Reyes, Cassandra Cain, Jessica Cruz, and Michael Holt.
I think Black Lightning is the only one they have, and DC only recently started pushing him. Some can make a case for Cyborg but I wouldn’t.
This might upset some fans but the likes of Vibe, Fire, Vixen, Mal Duncan, Bumblebee, El Diablo ... etc (I’m at a loss for more original POC character names), don’t even come close to the 5 I mentioned above.
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Look at where John Stewart is at, look at where Black Panther, Luke Cage and Black Lightning are at, no comparison. John Stewart hasn't had his own title since the early 90's.
Mr. Terrific is a mass improvement on a relatively obscure character. Cassandra didn't have to stand in the shadows, because until recently we all accepted Barbara as Oracle, and Jamie Reyes is an original character all but in name.
Vixen is quite popular, the only reason why some duplicate heroes get a bit of traction is because they get put on a superteam like the JLA, but they will always be in the shadows of a bigger name. Jessica Cruz is one duplicate to many. There are too many Green Lanterns, kill her off.
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[QUOTE=The no face guy;5151750]Look at where John Stewart is at, look at where Black Panther, Luke Cage and Black Lightning are at, no comparison. John Stewart hasn't had his own title since the early 90's.
Mr. Terrific is a mass improvement on a relatively obscure character. Cassandra didn't have to stand in the shadows, because until recently we all accepted Barbara as Oracle, and Jamie Reyes is an original character all but in name.
Vixen is quite popular, the only reason why some duplicate heroes get a bit of traction is because they get put on a superteam like the JLA, but they will always be in the shadows of a bigger name. Jessica Cruz is one duplicate to many. There are too many Green Lanterns, kill her off.[/QUOTE]
John was the sole human lead of the GLC title during the Van Jensen run, which sold well. He outsold both Kyle's and Guy's books. If he had been the head of the GL book instead, he might've outsold Hal too.
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[QUOTE=The no face guy;5151731]I agree with that. Black Panther and John Stewart have both been around over or close to 50 years. One has become immensly popular with their own movie, and running series, the other is a duplicate hero waiting some 30 years to get another run. More people out there are familiar with Storm than John Stewart.
Meanwhile Black Lightning and Luke Cage have/ (or have had) popular shows running on Netflix.
Creative originals trumps duplicates everytime.[/QUOTE]
Nah, John is pretty well known, still appearing in movies, games, and TV-- And he was once thought by many in the mainstream as the sole GL.
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[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;5151756]John was the sole human lead of the GLC title during the Van Jensen run, which sold well. He outsold both Kyle's and Guy's books. If he had been the head of the GL book instead, he might've outsold Hal too.[/QUOTE]
I love John Stewart but he would never have outsold Hal Jordan. Hal Jordan posted six figure sales numbers and outsold Superman for a good 5 years.
I was on comic hiatus those years, but it looks on par with Kyle, good to see him and Guy getting some spotlight though, love em both.
When they give John a solo title I will read it, but as of yet, he is always in the shadow of another Green Lantern, he even gets replaced on the JLA with the new Green Lantern flavour of the week. The problem with being a duplicate.
