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[QUOTE=The Quiet Councilor;4770136]The notion that “Tycon & Co” believe privileged groups are of less value and deserve few rights or none at all. That entire paragraph reads like an Alex Jones propaganda monologue. It’s hateful and serves only to demonize progressives.[/QUOTE]
Alex Jones isn't an old-school liberal, and he doesn't believe in universal human rights or individual dignity. He's a social Darwinist and a white nationalist with fascist leanings.
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;4770134]Sigh Magneto doesn`t want to be slaveowner of anyone, lest remember that it`s canon this Magneto:[/QUOTE]
And it's great that you recognize that, as I do as well. But the question is...
will the writers after Hickman write many of the humans into recognizing that and function by modern standards, as opposed to having many of the humans function as if they're still as far back as friggin 1953 when Binder's mutant domination article was published?
[QUOTE=Electricmastro;4770174]And it's great that you recognize that, as I do as well. But the question is...
will the writers after Hickman write many of the humans into recognizing that and function by modern standards, as opposed to having many of the humans function as if they're still as far back as friggin 1953 when Binder's mutant domination article was published?[/QUOTE]
And that's where we'll have to see how things unfold. Well said. We're subject to what's written on the page. Do I want to see the mutants take down the humans? No and I don't want to see the mutants continue to suffer either. So it all depends on what picture of humanity they give us.
Thanks for those panels, Lucyinthesky. They warmed my heart.
[IMG]https://myalbum.com/photo/KP9unaBVFkRL/360.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=FUBAR007;4770041]According to their comments here over the past few months, Tycon (and their ideological fellow travelers) view mutants in the Hickman era as a metaphor for various historically discriminated-against minorities--chiefly LGBTQ and African-Americans, but other racial, ethnic, and sexual minorities as well--and the humans of Marvel Earth as a metaphor for straight white people. And, to be clear, I'm using "white" in the sense of current political and sociological discourse regarding "whiteness". The term refers not just to racial Caucasians, but also to any historically dominant demographic group (heterosexuals, white men, middle-class and upper-middle class people, etc.).[/QUOTE]
That never changed from before Hickman, lol.
[QUOTE]Based on their comments, Tycon & co. view people from historically privileged demographics to be of less value and entitled to fewer rights than minorities. That is, in their view, human rights inversely correlate with privilege. Privilege is inherently evil so historically oppressed minorities are entitled to the most rights; accordingly, people from privileged groups are entitled to the fewest rights or none at all. The long-term objective, then, is to invert the social hierarchy by redistributing privilege from the majority to minorities, achieving social justice. Minorities will at last be rewarded for all their past suffering, and the majority will finally be punished for its historical crimes and oppression. This is a common, though not universal, worldview among intersectional progressives, at least in the U.S.[/QUOTE]
Nope, not at all what’s being said. Removing systems of privilege while ensuring protections for oppressed classes isn’t “giving more rights” to anyone. It’s equalizing the playing field and recognizing the systemic discrimination that’s inherent in mostly all institutions. Not just Western institutions but most places that have been ravaged by imperialism.
[QUOTE]What's notable about this is that it's a categorical rejection of democratic liberalism and its core concept of universal human rights as understood in the West since World War II and advocated by liberals up through (in the U.S.) the Obama presidency. In Hickman's X-Men, this break between old-school liberalism and intersectional progressivism is mirrored in Xavier's shift from human-mutant integration to mutant separatist nationalism.
Personally, I don't think Hickman is taking a political stand so much as implementing a radical change to generate dramatic tension, unsettle readers, and increase suspense. In other words, it's a big tease. And, in time as Hickman's overaching plot unfolds, what's really going on behind the scenes will come to the fore, and the focus will shift back to less political, more high-concept action-adventure.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure what’s being said here. The political stances typically taken under liberalism has never been something that guaranteed civil rights or gay rights or trans rights. It has been marketed as a safe but still participatory way to help ease your way into society but change never was pushed under that. In fact, many liberal politicians supported racist and homophobic laws. “Intersectional progressives” (you can just say leftists) have always maintained that privilege needs to first be acknowledged in our systems before we try to enact change lest we repeat the same **** we’ve already been through with a shiny coat of “diversity” or “progressivism” crudely painted over it.
The bottomline: Mutants have to protect themselves, period. But also the bits about the X-Men just waiting for humans to die off so mutants can have the planet is not heroic and doesn't fly when you try to use it as a metaphor.
[QUOTE=Kitty&Piotr<3;4770269]The bottomline: Mutants have to protect themselves, period. But also the bits about the X-Men just waiting for humans to die off so mutants can have the planet is not heroic and doesn't fly when you try to use it as a metaphor.[/QUOTE]
What can Mutants do about that though? If they die off they die off.
[QUOTE=Kitty&Piotr<3;4770269]The bottomline: Mutants have to protect themselves, period. But also the bits about the X-Men just waiting for humans to die off so mutants can have the planet is not heroic and doesn't fly when you try to use it as a metaphor.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's pretty much it. And trying to use the 'we can't tell the bad humans from the good' schtick when you've got Apocalypse in the room is kind of a bad take.
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4770283]What can Mutants do about that though? If they die off they die off.[/QUOTE]
You support it happening in the narrative if it happens? Yes it's a frickin fictional story so exterminating/exctinctifying a comic-book setting's baseline human population is within the realm of possibility, but seriously.
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4770283]What can Mutants do about that though? If they die off they die off.[/QUOTE]
Maybe try to compromise? Have mutants seize access to the mutant cure and use it on mutant criminals or mutants who's powers are either extremely dangerous to everyone or a genuinely detrimental to the quality of life the mutant? Something like that
Nothing bad must be allowed to happen to mutants now for any reason EVER. So no to that. If a mutant loses control and kills somebody before he is given control, the victims can always be resurrected if they were mutants. If humans? One step closer to seeing them gone forever.
[QUOTE=Londo Bellian;4770296]Nothing bad must be allowed to happen to mutants now for any reason EVER. So no to that. If a mutant loses control and kills somebody before he is given control, the victims can always be resurrected if they were mutants. If humans? One step closer to seeing them gone forever.[/QUOTE]
I'm curious. What was your take on the protest scene in the last Excalibur?
[QUOTE=pkingdom;4770293]Maybe try to compromise? Have mutants seize access to the mutant cure and use it on mutant criminals or mutants who's powers are either extremely dangerous to everyone or a genuinely detrimental to the quality of life the mutant? Something like that[/QUOTE]
What does that have to do with mutants eventually being the majority world population?
[QUOTE=Londo Bellian;4770296]Nothing bad must be allowed to happen to mutants now for any reason EVER. So no to that. If a mutant loses control and kills somebody before he is given control, the victims can always be resurrected if they were mutants. If humans? One step closer to seeing them gone forever.[/QUOTE]Doesn't this mean that the humans should start working out their own ressurecction program?
They're more than smart enough.
[QUOTE=Jbenito;4770302]I'm curious. What was your take on the protest scene in the last Excalibur?[/QUOTE]
Forced conflict by the writer rehashing the same scene from past stories but dialing the caricature hostility to 11 raised to the power of 11, then having the main characters table the boiling conflict until later on the in the run. BTW, do mutants currently hold only Krakoan citizenship since the start of Dox?
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4770308]Doesn't this mean that the humans should start working out their own ressurecction program?
They're more than smart enough.[/QUOTE]ORCHIS apparently has. See X-Men #1.