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[QUOTE=The Overlord;4569012]I think that is irrelevant compared to her movie making a billion dollars, for Marvel the real money is in the other media adaptions, not the comics themselves. The profits from one of the MCU movies could fund Marvel comics for years.[/QUOTE]
I think your point about the movie making a billion is irrelevant considering the point made quite clearly is that her push is what raised legitimate ire. Her movie ultimately making a billion doesn’t change the fact that she was given her specific place in the MCU because the X-women were unavailable. No amount of conflation will change that fact.
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And again, going straight to the “billion dollar movie!” defense that’s so omnipresent with her apologists. Her movie making a billion says more about the brand that is the MCU than her. Plenty of movies that are mediocre at best cross the billion threshold: The Last Jedi, both Jurassic Worlds, Avatar (the #1 before Endgame), Transformers 3 and 4, The Hobbit, Alice in Wonderland, Minions, and hell, Iron Man 3.
No, a movie making a billion is not the ultimate game winning argument in her favor.
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[QUOTE=terrancejameson;4569024]I think your point about the movie making a billion is irrelevant considering the point made quite clearly is that her push is what raised legitimate ire. Her movie ultimately making a billion doesn’t change the fact that she was given her specific place in the MCU because the X-women were unavailable. No amount of conflation will change that fact.[/QUOTE]
From a business standpoint that is what matters. Marvel is a business, they are into making money and a solo movie featuring any of the Female X-Men is not a sure bet. The Marvel comics division is not the real business driver here, so it doesn't really matter if her solo comic does not do well, that is peanuts in the long run. Frankly, I thought the movie was rather mediocre, but clearly it made a lot of money and that is what Disney and Marvel really care about.
[QUOTE=Hybrid;4569032]And again, going straight to the “billion dollar movie!” defense that’s so omnipresent with her apologists. Her movie making a billion says more about the brand that is the MCU than her. Plenty of movies that are mediocre at best cross the billion threshold: The Last Jedi, both Jurassic Worlds, Avatar (the #1 before Endgame), Transformers 3 and 4, The Hobbit, Alice in Wonderland, Minions, and hell, Iron Man 3.
No, a movie making a billion is not the ultimate game winning argument in her favor.[/QUOTE]
A winning argument for whom, the general public or just comic book fans? I am not sure people realize at this point Marvel makes far more money from its noncomic book ventures then he does from the comics itself.
I think her movie was mediocre, but little girls who never read comics will know her more than most other Marvel female characters, so me or you thinking it is mediocre does not matter, she could be a darling for the next generation, because other media matters more then the comics do.
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[QUOTE=Beaddle;4568685]Successful movie of zero substance [B] I prefer good quality movies though.[/B]
Don't forget most of the attention was all negative for Carol.
I prefer the wonder woman attention instead. good movie, good actress, good character, good film making choices. Captain marvel had none of these so her successful film is worthless.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=H-E-D;4568744]I'd make a point about people needing to learn that [I]you can hype women characters up without tearing others down[/I], but I'm fairly certain this whole thread was just a bad-faith excuse to shit on a character that's played by an actress who has been falsely accused of misandry by trolls in attempts to justify and motivate sexist attacks.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, we've seen it time and again ([I]Ghostbusters[/I], [I]Star Wars[/I] sequel trilogy, etc.). Considering all the crap Brie Larson's been subjected to, really nice to see that her movie succeeded on all counts and that the trolls weren't able to dig their claws into the narrative the way they've been gaslighting [I]The Last Jedi[/I] ever since it came out.
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[QUOTE=WebLurker;4569159][ATTACH=CONFIG]87107[/ATTACH]
Yeah, we've seen it time and again ([I]Ghostbusters[/I], [I]Star Wars[/I] sequel trilogy, etc.). Considering all the crap Brie Larson's been subjected to, really nice to see that her movie succeeded on all counts and that the trolls weren't able to dig their claws into the narrative the way they've been gaslighting [I]The Last Jedi[/I] ever since it came out.[/QUOTE]
Agreed completely.
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[QUOTE=The Overlord;4569139]From a business standpoint that is what matters. Marvel is a business, they are into making money and a solo movie featuring any of the Female X-Men is not a sure bet. The Marvel comics division is not the real business driver here, so it doesn't really matter if her solo comic does not do well, that is peanuts in the long run. Frankly, I thought the movie was rather mediocre, but clearly it made a lot of money and that is what Disney and Marvel really care about.
A winning argument for whom, the general public or just comic book fans? I am not sure people realize at this point Marvel makes far more money from its noncomic book ventures then he does from the comics itself.
I think her movie was mediocre, but little girls who never read comics will know her more than most other Marvel female characters, so me or you thinking it is mediocre does not matter, she could be a darling for the next generation, because other media matters more then the comics do.[/QUOTE]
That I am painfully aware. But guess what? The X-Men are coming to the MCU soon, too.
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Again: Carol earned her place in the Marvel pantheon long before the MCU, and has been [I]more[/I] than a power match for the X-women since Claremont deliberately made her that over 30 years ago. It is not a competition, so miss me with that.
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[QUOTE=Hybrid;4568765]I was just curious if it was true that the X-Women are the best among the Marvel heroines, and I'm worried this is getting derailed a bit.[/QUOTE]
No, you were 'curious' to say it and insist everyone agree with you and then claim any other character but the X-women is 'artificial' and ''forced.' Don't pretend this was a debate, it was your op-ed. If people disagreed with you, then your 'question' is answered, isn't it? The answer is: The X-women are fantastic, but as for others opinions vary.
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[video=youtube;4OU-6G-oIdQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OU-6G-oIdQ[/video]
And I love both females but no way will you ever see any comic fan let carol win if it was carol vs wonder woman.
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[QUOTE=Beaddle;4569278][video=youtube;4OU-6G-oIdQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OU-6G-oIdQ[/video]
And I love both females but no way will you ever see any comic fan let carol win if it was carol vs wonder woman.[/QUOTE]
And I continue to not really care for Captain Marvel not matter how many times people boast of her power and accomplishments. lol, moving on.
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[QUOTE=The Overlord;4569139]From a business standpoint that is what matters. Marvel is a business, they are into making money and a solo movie featuring any of the Female X-Men is not a sure bet. The Marvel comics division is not the real business driver here, so it doesn't really matter if her solo comic does not do well, that is peanuts in the long run. Frankly, I thought the movie was rather mediocre, but clearly it made a lot of money and that is what Disney and Marvel really care about.
A winning argument for whom, the general public or just comic book fans? I am not sure people realize at this point Marvel makes far more money from its noncomic book ventures then he does from the comics itself.
I think her movie was mediocre, but little girls who never read comics will know her more than most other Marvel female characters, so me or you thinking it is mediocre does not matter, she could be a darling for the next generation, because other media matters more then the comics do.[/QUOTE]
None of what you wrote takes away from the legitimate claims people are making about her being a place marker for the more popular X-women. Anything else is fluff. We know why most of the males that Captain Marvel do so. That’s not really what Hybrid is saying, but many people keep boiling it down to that. It’s disingenuous. I posted an article in here twice that outright says exactly what Hybrid made mention. I don’t care how Claremont built her up alongside the women of the X-men. The article takes that into consideration as well. The women behind her big push to the big screen fully acknowledge that Carol is perceived as the most powerful woman because Storm and Jean Grey don’t yet exist in the MCU. Everyone is ignoring that to get on their pro-feminist propaganda bandwagon without actually acknowledging what’s being said. I’d call it a reading comprehension problem, but the urge to dismiss these facts seems more deliberate than just that.
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[QUOTE=terrancejameson;4569303]I posted an article in here twice that outright says exactly what Hybrid made mention.[/quote]
All that article does is lightly touch on something which informs your personal take - that Carol is in play in part because the X-Men were not. That's nice, and? In other news, water is wet. But that fact does nothing to counter the fact that Carol is and has been a power match for the X-women in question for over 30 years, and also a popular character with readers for decades, growing in prominence over time. It does nothing to counter the fact that the larger push of her character also pre-dates the MCU. All of which makes her as uniquely suited to her current role in the MCU franchise as any X-woman.
[quote]I don’t care how Claremont built her up alongside the women of the X-men.[/quote]
Of course you don't, because then the claim that Carol has been unfairly made prominent only recently - and overpowered specifically to dethrone and disenfranchise the women of the X-Men - completely disintegrates. All of that is untrue.
[quote]The women behind her big push to the big screen fully acknowledge that Carol is perceived as the most powerful woman because Storm and Jean Grey don’t yet exist in the MCU.[/quote]
That doesn't change the fact that even if they were there and when they are, Carol will remain one of the most powerful women in the Marvel Universe, as she has been for decades. Thanks to, yet again, X-writer Chris Claremont.
[quote]Everyone is ignoring that to get on their pro-feminist propaganda bandwagon[/QUOTE]
And with that comment, your relevance in this discussion ends.
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[QUOTE=Beaddle;4569278]And I love both females but no way will you ever see any comic fan let carol win if it was carol vs wonder woman.[/QUOTE]
I would. Arrest me. Also, stop posting random fanvids as though they have substantive facts that influence a discussion.
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Well, yeah, because they are also quite influential or pushed to modern pop culture. BW, CM and Wanda got pushed more recently due to the success of Marvel movies.
Storm has always been iconic, from her looks to her powers. Her character design is just unique and one of a kind.
Jean Grey has the iconic Phoenix saga. It will always be tied with her and still remains as one of the legendary storylines ever in comics.
Psylocke, the queen of Marvel games. As well as her iconic Psychic Knife and Psi-butterflies that have become her ultimate trademarks.
Rogue remains to be recognized by people as having Ms. Marvel's powers on top of her absorption powers. She's still remain really popular, especially with teens being able to relate with her struggles of being untouchable before. Her relationship with Gambit has always been iconic.
The X-Women were deviants of the Wonder Woman archetype which made them special. While Rogue has that powerset in the past, what made her completely different from WW was her character history and struggles.
Not only that, but they are unique designs, not juxtapositions of male counterparts like She-Hulk, Spider Woman, Jane Foster Thor, etc. Which made their prominence and status even more impressive.
