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[QUOTE=magenta;4557553]Where does the writer of the article mention Jean and her fans' behavior? I don't see any mention of Jean except for the blurb at the beginning about her and Scott and Logan all dying.
Since it was a Storm-focused Q&A, it's actually more likely that the writer was talking about Storm fans and some of the questions that they sent in.[/QUOTE]
He mentioned in a tweet before posting the X-Men Monday that stuff from last week bothered him and he would use his platform to address it.
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[QUOTE=Wiccan;4557551]This was an X-Men Monday about Storm. Whatever Jean fans were doing shouldn't even have been brought up on this article and thread. Weren't you the one who disliked the idea of bringing up unrelated subjects as "a distraction"?
[IMG]https://media3.giphy.com/media/4oMXIEPdD09SU/giphy.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Neither Storm or her fans are responsible for referencing Jean Grey or her fans in this article. It's still an article about Storm, though. Are you seriously suggesting Storm fans keep their opinions to themselves regarding an article about her? Would you say that to Jean Grey fans, my friend?
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If fans were being abusive to any creator on twitter or elsewhere then they deserved to be called out. I saw some behavior that wasn't good from some X-Men fans and some Scarlet Witch fans that were directed at Hickman through twitter. That is not cool.
However, being critical of a writer or their content should not be silenced. A comic book is a social artifact and even without reading the entire story/arc we can still make judgments on the single issue (it is after all a unit of analysis). I think the X-Men Monday guy was correct to call out inappropriate behavior but should be careful not to call out those who have valid criticisms from the latest HOX issue. I did see on twitter where the X-Men Monday guy was making fun of fans being upset about jean's dress/characterization though those are valid criticisms. So hopefully he takes his own words to heart and also demonstrates better behavior.
While it is fun to enjoy comics most of us know it is also fun to critique them, debate them, and speculate about them. All of it is a part of fandom, but we should be careful not to become toxic that we put down, make fun of, or use abusive language toward each other or the creators.
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Then in one of his comments he said people want spoilers but not one of the questions he asked got any answers aside from the person's fave storm story. So how does that spoil anything and why didn't any of the questions he chose get any answers. I need to let this out here so i don't engage on twitter and ask. Cause i really want to know does he feel he did an interview where he got actual answers to anything because this felt more like "sh$)ing the breeze" than an actual "platform" that gets questions answered. Even something as basic as powers in space was "i don't know science" okay. lol. i'm literally laughing now cause this brought out the mischievous side in me.
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[QUOTE=terrancejameson;4557574]Neither Storm or her fans are responsible for referencing Jean Grey or her fans in this article.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, AIPT is. And butterfly is applauding the writer for "rightfully reprimanding them" on the article. Which I don't think it's the case, because imo this shouldn't have been brought up. And it was bringing that up on something that had nothing to do with it that started the mess on the thread, not the fact that I replied to something that was already being discussed. That's basically what I'm saying on the comment you quoted.
[QUOTE=terrancejameson;4557574]It's still an article about Storm, though. Are you seriously suggesting Storm fans keep their opinions to themselves regarding an article about her? Would you say that to Jean Grey fans, my friend?[/QUOTE]
I never told anyone to keep their opinions. I just(in my first post here) argued that the opinion expressed was hypocritical, and(on the one you quoted) that it was funny how they claimed my comment was "unrelated", but had no problem with an actually completely unrelated subject being on the article.
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I'm going to say this and then respond to some of the individual responses when I have more time. we all have to do better at being kinder in expressing our criticisms and frustrations. step back and try to remember there are real people with feelings, with families, with livelihoods that are responsible for bringing us these comics with the characters we love so deeply. and I'm sure we wouldnt want any of our loved ones to receive some of the responses these creators of this material do. I'm challenging us all to remember this before we go posting on people's social media and even here as well.
#dobetter
#monetwasright
#sorryjeansus
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[QUOTE=Snoop Dogg;4557549]I hope JDW got to see the appreciation thread made for him before the end.[/QUOTE]
I worked on that for over an hour and it was deleted almost immediately :'(
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[QUOTE=Wiccan;4557593]Yeah, AIPT is. And butterfly is applauding the writer for "rightfully reprimanding them" on the article. Which I don't think it's the case, because imo this shouldn't have been brought up. And it was bringing that up on something that had nothing to do with it that started the mess on the thread, not the fact that I replied to something that was already being discussed. That's basically what I'm saying on the comment you quoted.
I never told anyone to keep their opinions. I just(in my first post here) argued that the opinion expressed was hypocritical, and(on the one you quoted) that it was funny how they claimed my comment was "unrelated", but had no problem with an actually completely unrelated subject being on the article.[/QUOTE]
LEt's be real the writer brought it up because this is his "platform" and if he isn't seen as being all over the top in his protection of said staff he might not get the access he has been granted to be able to do his X-men Monday's. So i'm not surprised he brought it up but it's an evident circumstance to gain favor with those who are breading his butter. Personally i skipped that part so i don't know what he said personally but perhaps this was something he should have left on his twitter.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;4557616]LEt's be real the writer brought it up because this is his "platform" and if he isn't seen as being all over the top in his protection of said staff he might not get the access he has been granted to be able to do his X-men Monday's. So i'm not surprised he brought it up but it's an evident circumstance to gain favor with those who are buttering his bread. Personally i skipped that part so i don't know what he said personally but perhaps this was something he should have left on his twitter.[/QUOTE]
lol
Well I forget but he notes taking advantage of his platform to better than fandom and call out bad behavior. Then he says he looks forward to reading about how stupid he is for doing so. Even though he'll get offended by that, and eventually rant on that too. No point trying to play it off as[B] "your words only amuse me"[/B] because otherwise,you don't rant on things that don't bother you. So we know if this receives criticism, he'll feel attacked, insulted, and accuse fans of telling him what to do professionally.
I didn't have any issues with him, but this little rant at the start left a bad taste, especially like stated above, when he's guilty of mocking or digging at fans with valid criticism that isn't attacking.
And as someone told him on his twitter, people who are toxic won't stop being so because someone made a speech. I agree. If it were that simple, there'd be no racism after Martin Luther King Jr. At the end of the day, the only people who take preaching to heart are the people who already agree.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;4557404]I think Jean for the most part is a universally loved character. She's never been offensive, she doesn't really come off as a Mary Sue. She's like a universally universal character.[/QUOTE]
[I have no fucking idea how to post properly sized images on this website so just pretend skeptical Kermit the Frog is here]
I have nothing against Jean these days, but back in the '90s - hoo! Forget it, homey. She was an absolutely intolerable perfect goddess, AFAIC. I couldn't stand her and her big-ass hair. I still don't think she hung the moon, but I'm fine with her today after what I felt was better handling in the early 2000s and a long break. Her fans vary.
That being said, as to the larger topic: The way fans of characters overall seem to approach the comics, fan wars, whatever today on some forums seems utterly alien and extreme to me a lot of the time. I can't analyze some stuff to death that way or talk about panel count, how many lines, whatever. There's just no good to come of that.
I think the circuit of behavior can be toxic for both fans and staff, and if they're both feeding into and playing off each other online that's far worse and more unprofessional for staff, IMO. I have to imagine that whatever we think of when we think of editorial hypothetically sitting around ripping on the fans has to get 100x worse if they're, like, lurking here nonstop and monitoring dedicated fan threads. I can't imagine a good reason to do that, because seeing only the most extreme behaviors manifest regularly breeds contempt. That's not fair to saner fans (who are also in those threads!) and it's not fair to the characters, anymore than it's fair for fans to trash the writers lock, stock and barrel and weave insane conspiracy theories. I don't work in the industry but I knew folks who did at the Big Two back in NYC, and I work in entertainment. You have to keep a layer of distance and rational perspective for yourself, IMO. You can never please everyone - this forum proves that - but you shouldn't let that conflict bleed into the work.
I think the X-Office is doing the best they can these days, which definitely wasn't always true. I also think fans can sometimes do better.
(and yeah Alexandra Shipp does get bullied lol)
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[QUOTE=Silver Fang;4557627]lol
Well I forget but he notes taking advantage of his platform to better than fandom and call out bad behavior. Then he says he looks forward to reading about how stupid he is for doing so. Even though he'll get offended by that, and eventually rant on that too. No point trying to play it off as[B] "your words only amuse me"[/B] because otherwise,you don't rant on things that don't bother you. So we know if this receives criticism, he'll feel attacked, insulted, and accuse fans of telling him what to do professionally.
I didn't have any issues with him, but this little rant at the start left a bad taste, especially like stated above, when he's guilty of mocking or digging at fans with valid criticism that isn't attacking.
And as someone told him on his twitter, people who are toxic won't stop being so because someone made a speech. I agree. If it were that simple, there'd be no racism after Martin Luther King Jr. At the end of the day, the only people who take preaching to heart are the people who already agree.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much and he isn't doing himself any favors because to the real crazies out there it now looks like Marvel, who is allowing their editors to "answer" these questions seem to support his finger wagging or whatever was said. This will only embolden those who disagree with him.
Also if he got so offended that he had to take to twitter to get people to pat him on the back about "how dare they question my questions." (i've never sent one in, just not my thing.) then what does he expect from the people who he dragged out onto the red carpet? I wouldn't even know his article existed if it wasn't for CBR and forget about it when it's on the first page of threads. Maybe he just needs some interaction and this was the way.
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Comics are a break from real-world crappyness so let's treat stories about racism and genocide as if they're fluff! I get that fans throwing fits that their faves didn't get feats is an annoying poison online, but the stories we engage in and consume aren't just pure escapism.
The only good animated Storm is TAS Storm. Evo Storm was a babysitter. WoTXM Storm was either possessed or mute.
[QUOTE=jwatson;4557584]Then in one of his comments he said people want spoilers but not one of the questions he asked got any answers aside from the person's fave storm story. So how does that spoil anything and why didn't any of the questions he chose get any answers. I need to let this out here so i don't engage on twitter and ask. Cause i really want to know does he feel he did an interview where he got actual answers to anything because this felt more like "sh$)ing the breeze" than an actual "platform" that gets questions answered. Even something as basic as powers in space was "i don't know science" okay. lol. i'm literally laughing now cause this brought out the mischievous side in me.[/QUOTE]
There was no substance to these answers. And I saw some pretty great questions being asked on twitter.
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[QUOTE=powerpax;4557635][I have no fucking idea how to post properly sized images on this website so just pretend skeptical Kermit the Frog is here]
I have nothing against Jean these days, but back in the '90s - hoo! Forget it, homey. She was an absolutely intolerable perfect goddess, AFAIC. I couldn't stand her and her big-ass hair. I still don't think she hung the moon, but I'm fine with her today after what I felt was better handling in the early 2000s and a long break. Her fans vary.
That being said, as to the larger topic: The way fans of characters overall seem to approach the comics, fan wars, whatever today on some forums seems utterly alien and extreme to me a lot of the time. I can't analyze some stuff to death that way or talk about panel count, how many lines, whatever. There's just no good to come of that.
I think the circuit of behavior can be toxic for both fans and staff, and if they're both feeding into and playing off each other online that's far worse and more unprofessional for staff, IMO. I have to imagine that whatever we think of when we think of editorial hypothetically sitting around ripping on the fans has to get 100x worse if they're, like, lurking here nonstop and monitoring dedicated fan threads. I can't imagine a good reason to do that, because seeing only the most extreme behaviors manifest regularly breeds contempt. That's not fair to saner fans (who are also in those threads!) and it's not fair to the characters, anymore than it's fair for fans to trash the writers lock, stock and barrel and weave insane conspiracy theories. I don't work in the industry but I knew folks who did at the Big Two back in NYC, and I work in entertainment. You have to keep a layer of distance and rational perspective for yourself, IMO. You can never please everyone - this forum proves that - but you shouldn't let that conflict bleed into the work.
I think the X-Office is doing the best they can these days, which definitely wasn't always true. I also think fans can sometimes do better
(and yeah Alexandra Shipp does get bullied lol)[/QUOTE]
I read jean through the 90s and none of it really bothered me. I guess it's cause her and Storm are my faves so maybe i was a little bias to it but i can't honestly think of an instance where i was like Jean is suppose to be the end all.
I definitely agree with you on the overanalyzing of things but i think it only becomes a problem when it's in comparison to other characters rather than the story itself. I was on the debate team so i love to debate, but i'm not just going around in real life debating people so it's nice to get it out of your system. The problem comes in when people make it personal or take it personal.
I completely agree with you on the line between personal work and fan response. If fans aren't going out of their way to attack you on another platform i just don't see the point of trying to go out of your way to attack platforms they frequent and to me that's crossing a line. Here people have to sign up to post and i think that should be respected not ran over to twitter or something else so a person can get some sort of gratfification or pat on the back and i think thats what annoys me most when people do it.
I don't really care about Alexandra Shipp (except she does feed the trolls a bit from what i've seen but no one should have to be harassed for trying to do their job. But then who knows who the casting directors of hollywood are. )so theres really not much i can say on that. I stopped watching the fox men movies after first class. The one thing i won't do is pay my money to torture myself. I wouldn't watch
those movies for free.
And i'm sorry if this came of a little incoherent. But my minds a little incoherent right now.
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This Storm costume is flawless. My favorite of hers and by far the best she looked in years. I also wish Jean and Betsy would have kept their Uncanny X-Men ones.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;4557667]I don't really care about Alexandra Shipp (except she does feed the trolls a bit from what i've seen[/QUOTE]
She definitely has made some choices, yes.
