The inevitable how would *you* do a Ben Reilly series?

[QUOTE=Scarlet Spider-Man;2656030]A new and improved Web Warriors, consisting of:

Scarlet Spider (Ben)
Scarlet Spider (Kaine)
Spider-Girl (Mayday)
Spider-Gwen
???[/QUOTE]

Hmm, that would be good, too. Right off the bat, I'd suggest Ultimate Jessica Drew, to complete the Scarlet Spiders trio (and for Mayday's and Gwen's reactions to a female clone of Peter Parker). There'd also be good drama in Mayday's reactions to Ben Reilly and Kaine, considering she's known a significantly different version of Kaine in her world and she only knew Ben as her long-dead uncle who was also Spider-Man for a while, and theirs to her.

[QUOTE=Scott Taylor;2656379]I suppose you could give Ben the Venom symbiote. Give him a turn.[/QUOTE]

I've always thought it would be fascinating if Ben tried to redeem the symbiote.

People tend to forget that in Web of Spider-Man #1, the symbiote is said to be capable of learning human emotion, including love. When it met up with Eddie Brock, its love became twisted into crazy ex-lover jealousy, but never so much that it wouldn't take Peter back given the opportunity.

Peter certainly wasn't wrong to be freaked out by the symbiosis, but if the symbiote is capable of things like love and compassion, it's possible he could have come to some kind of understanding with the symbiote.

It wasn't until the 90s animated series that the symbiote was depicted as only channeling negative emotions and making its host more aggressive. But that kind of stuck, and it carried over into the third Raimi film and [B]The Spectacular Spider-Man [/B]cartoon.

Ben more easily come to a different perspective on the symbiote, maybe even feel some compassion toward it given that he has questions about his own humanity.

This, in turn, could lead to tension between Peter and Ben without turning them into outright enemies or making Ben villainous. They'd each have a legitimate perspective.

The same is true, I think, if Ben married MJ. That might be a little too weird though, so I'd probably throw this out: what if he married Betty? Then you've still got Ben living a life that Peter can't have, at least not post-OMD. That would put them slightly odds, but in a way that's relatively normal for siblings. More awkward Thanksgiving dinner than 'I've got to stop him before he destroys the world!'

[QUOTE=Huntsman Spider;2652503]Scarlet Spider leading the Slingers would be an awesome idea, especially if the team was made up of costumed and/or super-powered allies that debuted within the Spider-Man comics. Or are you thinking about recreating the original Slingers lineup but with Scarlet Spider assembling and leading them? If that's what you had in mind, that would be pretty awesome, too.[/QUOTE]

I take my fantasies about writing Marvel comics pretty seriously :p to the point that my ideas about what I would do with [I]Slingers [/I]incorporates as many possible "suggestions" from editorial as I can think of. For example, it's possible that Marvel would want all the main characters to be actual Spider-themed heroes, and I can roll with that. Can I use Venom then? No? Okay. Etc.

But, if given free reign, yeah - I'd have the team made up mostly of, as you said, "allies that debuted within the [Spidey] comics" - characters like the original Slingers, SHOC, Phil Urich, Morbius, Anya, and super obscure ones like Robin Vega and Akasha, the Living Pharaoh. I'd also try to bring in some characters that don't really have a stable "home" at Marvel: characters like Darkhawk and Sleepwalker. (Although, to be fair, I'd probably try to fit Sleepwalker into any comic I was writing.) Basically, under my watch, [I]Slingers [/I]would essentially serve as a "Spider-Man Universe" title that fleshes out a lot of these characters who don't always get a lot of time in the spotlight, with the main lead of the comic being Ben Reilly.

I think it would be a blast, especially because characters like Ben Reilly, Kaine, Phil Urich, and even the Slingers allow for the opportunity to analyze Peter Parker without needing Peter there at all!

[QUOTE=Huntsman Spider;2652503] And considering Scarlet bonded with the Carnage symbiote . . . that would have made more sense for his behavior in The Clone Conspiracy, you could just say that the symbiote's murderous impulses warped his brain despite his best efforts to resist, further compounding the trauma of Warren killing and resurrecting him 27 times over. Also, I'd have preferred a Scarlet Spiders title with Ben and Kaine as co-leads reconciling their relationship with each other and their place in the world instead of being in opposition to each other because of The Clone Conspiracy. Speaking of Scarlet Spiders, I'm hoping Peter David at some point tackles the Scarlet Spider clones that were created by Mister Sinister in the Wolverines weekly series back in 2015 pre-Secret Wars.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm pretty obsessed with the idea of "Scarlet Carnage." I still have, from childhood, my Scarlet Spider action figure with attached Carnage symbiote ax. The Spider-Carnage outfit is arguably one of the coolest looks we've ever had in the Spidey titles, and I'd love to see it modified to incorporate Ben's Scarlet costume, which is my personal favorite.

The original [I]Slingers [/I]series gave readers, in my eyes, a good view of what young people with powers would do in real life: maybe try to be heroic, but not successfully; probably do some unheroic things; mostly, just try to stay alive and figure life out along the way. So I've always thought I'd make Ben less "traditionally heroic" than we saw in the past when he was still essentially trying to be Peter Parker, even straying into the role of anti-villain at times. Maybe that's why Slott's take on Ben doesn't bother me.

Anyway, as far as Ben and Kaine co-leading a[I] Scarlet Spiders[/I] title: I think we'll see it eventually. That's my guess. I mean, at the end of CC we have Ben and Kaine in an interesting position: Kaine has tried being a hero in the memory of his fallen brother and is degenerating; Ben is now seen as a villain and is degenerating. Kaine may see Ben as an imposter and a disgrace to the name of his brother. Yet Ben is the lead and Kaine isn't, which means (in my mind) that PAD is going to play around A LOT with comparing these two "Peter Parkers" in order to make some philosophical observations. Yet, eventually, I've gotta imagine Ben and Kaine will find common ground and we'll see the title add an -s to the end of it (probably when it needs to be rebooted/renumbered).

I doubt we'll see Sinister's Scarlet clones brought up, but with PAD you never know what minutiae of continuity he'll use!

-Pav, who also still has his Spider-man Maximum Clonage Special Collector's Set action figures...

[QUOTE=Pav;2662886]I take my fantasies about writing Marvel comics pretty seriously :p to the point that my ideas about what I would do with [I]Slingers [/I]incorporates as many possible "suggestions" from editorial as I can think of. For example, it's possible that Marvel would want all the main characters to be actual Spider-themed heroes, and I can roll with that. Can I use Venom then? No? Okay. Etc.

But, if given free reign, yeah - I'd have the team made up mostly of, as you said, "allies that debuted within the [Spidey] comics" - characters like the original Slingers, SHOC, Phil Urich, Morbius, Anya, and super obscure ones like Robin Vega and Akasha, the Living Pharaoh. I'd also try to bring in some characters that don't really have a stable "home" at Marvel: characters like Darkhawk and Sleepwalker. (Although, to be fair, I'd probably try to fit Sleepwalker into any comic I was writing.) Basically, under my watch, [I]Slingers [/I]would essentially serve as a "Spider-Man Universe" title that fleshes out a lot of these characters who don't always get a lot of time in the spotlight, with the main lead of the comic being Ben Reilly.

I think it would be a blast, especially because characters like Ben Reilly, Kaine, Phil Urich, and even the Slingers allow for the opportunity to analyze Peter Parker without needing Peter there at all!



Yeah, I'm pretty obsessed with the idea of "Scarlet Carnage." I still have, from childhood, my Scarlet Spider action figure with attached Carnage symbiote ax. The Spider-Carnage outfit is arguably one of the coolest looks we've ever had in the Spidey titles, and I'd love to see it modified to incorporate Ben's Scarlet costume, which is my personal favorite.

The original [I]Slingers [/I]series gave readers, in my eyes, a good view of what young people with powers would do in real life: maybe try to be heroic, but not successfully; probably do some unheroic things; mostly, just try to stay alive and figure life out along the way. So I've always thought I'd make Ben less "traditionally heroic" than we saw in the past when he was still essentially trying to be Peter Parker, even straying into the role of anti-villain at times. Maybe that's why Slott's take on Ben doesn't bother me.

Anyway, as far as Ben and Kaine co-leading a[I] Scarlet Spiders[/I] title: I think we'll see it eventually. That's my guess. I mean, at the end of CC we have Ben and Kaine in an interesting position: Kaine has tried being a hero in the memory of his fallen brother and is degenerating; Ben is now seen as a villain and is degenerating. Kaine may see Ben as an imposter and a disgrace to the name of his brother. Yet Ben is the lead and Kaine isn't, which means (in my mind) that PAD is going to play around A LOT with comparing these two "Peter Parkers" in order to make some philosophical observations. Yet, eventually, I've gotta imagine Ben and Kaine will find common ground and we'll see the title add an -s to the end of it (probably when it needs to be rebooted/renumbered).

I doubt we'll see Sinister's Scarlet clones brought up, but with PAD you never know what minutiae of continuity he'll use!

-Pav, who also still has his Spider-man Maximum Clonage Special Collector's Set action figures...[/QUOTE]

Thanks for responding to my commentary, and yeah, I'd love a title that focused on Spider-Man's more peripheral supporting cast members or allies that don't get nearly as much love as they should in the main or major book(s). Hell, it'd be a perfect place for Cardiac, who is my favorite of the more obscure Spider-Man costumed characters because him being a vigilante that primarily targets wrongdoers who manipulate the law with their money and connections to avoid justice for the lives and livelihoods they ruin and/or end through their greed speaks to a very real contemporary issue of wealthy malefactors buying their way out of criminal penalties and even persuading legislators to legitimize their wrongdoing.

Given your own idea of having Ben Reilly's character explore the philosophical meanings of "good" and "evil" and how the line between them is often blurry and sometimes virtually nonexistent, I could see him and Cardiac having a chat at some point about how they both did "the wrong thing for the right reason," or at least what they thought was the right reason, even if it set them against more "traditional heroes" like Spider-Man. I could see New U appealing to Cardiac at first, a radical new medical procedure that cures every illness and malady, but then him coming to blows with Ben because of how Ben used it as emotional manipulation and sometimes just plain coercion to win the loyalty of his supporters, which Cardiac would likely think made Ben no better than the very people Cardiac dedicated his life to stopping. It'd be a good debate between them, I'm sure.

Huntsman, I now definitely want to see Cardiac in the pages of PAD's Scarlet series!

-Pav, who was excited when he was used in Superior...

isn't cardiac against misuse of technology by all corporates? why would he find a common ground with Ben when he has misused the cloning tech on a wide scale though admittedly he may have sympathised with him on curing physical ills and diseases in the begining given his origins.

[QUOTE=Pav;2663534]Huntsman, I now definitely want to see Cardiac in the pages of PAD's Scarlet series!

-Pav, who was excited when he was used in Superior...[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I'm glad you liked my analysis of how Cardiac could interact with Ben in his current state, and I enjoyed his appearances in Superior, too.

[QUOTE=theoneandonly;2663569]isn't cardiac against misuse of technology by all corporates? why would he find a common ground with Ben when he has misused the cloning tech on a wide scale though admittedly he may have sympathised with him on curing physical ills and diseases in the begining given his origins.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that was what I was indicating, though I apologize if I was unclear on that. He would have sympathized with Ben's motivations at first, but definitely (and even violently) disagreed with Ben's methods of achieving said motivations, since like I said before, Ben's tactics of emotional manipulation and outright coercion would have struck him as no better than what the corporates Cardiac fought against did.

[QUOTE=Huntsman Spider;2663797]Thanks, I'm glad you liked my analysis of how Cardiac could interact with Ben in his current state, and I enjoyed his appearances in Superior, too.



Yeah, that was what I was indicating, though I apologize if I was unclear on that. He would have sympathized with Ben's motivations at first, but definitely (and even violently) disagreed with Ben's methods of achieving said motivations, since like I said before, Ben's tactics of emotional manipulation and outright coercion would have struck him as no better than what the corporates Cardiac fought against did.[/QUOTE]

no need to apologise my friend as I was just seeking clarification of your story premise.

[QUOTE=theoneandonly;2663824]no need to apologise my friend as I was just seeking clarification of your story premise.[/QUOTE]

That's all right. I'm just glad this is such an engaging topic. Seems we've all got great ideas as to how Ben Reilly's character could progress and/or could have progressed.

First we need to establish if Ben is going to be some sort of chaotic anti-hero or an opportunistic villain, judging by the comic cover(s) I'd wager that he will eventually (sooner than later) be restored to full hero status.

Second he needs to work out his trauma and get a grip on his feelings, he needs to - readers will not (and probably should not) expect to believe a character who just came out of an multi-title event acting as the villain to be like his old self again, it just would not be believable at all. He needs to resolve his issues, come to terms with the fact that he is a clone of a clone now (plus 25 more times) Peter isn't going anywhere and he has to once again carve out his own niche in the world, but in order to do those things he needs to drop the baggage either in therapy or talking with a friend or maybe getting some sense beaten into him.

Thirdly, this is purely cosmetic but the boy needs his blond locks back and he needs to do something about his "zombie"-esque appearance if not for cosmetic purposes then for potential health issues. But from there I'd go with him trying to regain his lost ground and building back up his identity as the Scarlet Spider, which should not be too difficult seeing as how A) there was no death certificate proving that Ben Reilly had passed on, B) he endured agonizing mental, emotional and physical trauma at the hands of the Jackal I think most people in-universe will be more sympathetic as opposed to "well get over it", C) he obviously wants to do good again judging by the return of his old costume and the capture of the thugs on the cover.

[QUOTE=Spiderfang;2663855]First we need to establish if Ben is going to be some sort of chaotic anti-hero or an opportunistic villain, judging by the comic cover(s) I'd wager that he will eventually (sooner than later) be restored to full hero status.

Second he needs to work out his trauma and get a grip on his feelings, he needs to - readers will not (and probably should not) expect to believe a character who just came out of an multi-title event acting as the villain to be like his old self again, it just would not be believable at all. He needs to resolve his issues, come to terms with the fact that he is a clone of a clone now (plus 25 more times) Peter isn't going anywhere and he has to once again carve out his own niche in the world, but in order to do those things he needs to drop the baggage either in therapy or talking with a friend or maybe getting some sense beaten into him.

Thirdly, this is purely cosmetic but the boy needs his blond locks back and he needs to do something about his "zombie"-esque appearance if not for cosmetic purposes then for potential health issues. But from there I'd go with him trying to regain his lost ground and building back up his identity as the Scarlet Spider, which should not be too difficult seeing as how A) there was no death certificate proving that Ben Reilly had passed on, B) he endured agonizing mental, emotional and physical trauma at the hands of the Jackal I think most people in-universe will be more sympathetic as opposed to "well get over it", C) he obviously wants to do good again judging by the return of his old costume and the capture of the thugs on the cover.[/QUOTE]

That sounds a lot like how I imagine the actual Ben Reilly: The Scarlet Spider series progressing. He definitely isn't going to be the same as he was before, and probably never will be again, but that doesn't mean he can't move forward and eventually be some semblance of heroic again.

[QUOTE=Huntsman Spider;2663878]That sounds a lot like how I imagine the actual Ben Reilly: The Scarlet Spider series progressing. He definitely isn't going to be the same as he was before, and probably never will be again, but that doesn't mean he can't move forward and eventually be some semblance of heroic again.[/QUOTE]

I very much hope Ben will heal his mind in time, we need him back on the good side. In this thread we presented a number of ideas for Ben's direction, if only we could read Marvel's editor's minds.

[QUOTE=SilverSpider;2665037]I very much hope Ben will heal his mind in time, we need him back on the good side. In this thread we presented a number of ideas for Ben's direction, if only we could read Marvel's editor's minds.[/QUOTE]

I'd rather just read the comics :)

-Pav, who couldn't trust himself with telepathy...

[QUOTE=Pav;2665246]I'd rather just read the comics :)

-Pav, who couldn't trust himself with telepathy...[/QUOTE]

I'd rather just read other comics, but to each their own. I agree with your point though.

It's always fun to speculate though, even if it only guarantees at least one percent of people a hollow "I told you so" victory it's still fun sometimes to try and guess where the writers are going to go with a particular story or character -- I remember back before the internet blew up in the early nineties that speculation and gossip was all there was to do aside from re-reading an issue and hoping for a different outcome.