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[QUOTE=Mutant God;5075988]How about Wolverine or Captain America lol [/QUOTE]
Stahpp don’t give marvel ideas TT^TT
[QUOTE=Tony Stark;5076006]I thought what would be ok is that he was stil Howard’s son biologically, but he had Tony with another woman. That would be why Howard was so mean to Tony as he didn’t have him with the love of his life Maria. Therefore that would be why Maria loved Tony so much and treated him like he was hers partly because Howard was such an ******* to Tony.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t mind this but like I said above marvel could have just dived deeper into Maria and her family. I also think, if marvel went with „Howard cheating“ Id assume he kept it a secret from Maria. So she thinks they adopted a kid but in reality it’s her husband’s oopsie son, u know for dramatic affect. I’m so extra TT^TT
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[QUOTE=BitParallel;5076142]Stahpp don’t give marvel ideas TT^TT
I wouldn’t mind this but like I said above marvel could have just dived deeper into Maria and her family. I also think, if marvel went with „Howard cheating“ Id assume he kept it a secret from Maria. So she thinks they adopted a kid but in reality it’s her husband’s oopsie son, u know for dramatic affect. I’m so extra TT^TT[/QUOTE]
Like Steve Sanders in Beverly Hills 90210
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[QUOTE=BitParallel;5073941]Lastly, in all aus but 616, Tony is the Starks biological son. And if he was to have a sibling.. Gregory Stark is what matters. Most of Iron Man fans don’t acknowledge the adoption story, so ignore it.[/QUOTE]
I ignored it for a while, until I started to bother with it again. That's because, I sincerely believe, that this retcon was not motivated by creative decisions, but by racism. And that is something I cannot ignore.
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[QUOTE=Kurt Busiek;5075252]I don't know. I read that run during my research, but I don't remember whether her maiden name came up or not.
kdb[/QUOTE]
Thank you very much again Mr. Busiek! Since you don't know, I suppose that the most likely explanation, is that Kavanagh was the first writer who gave her a surname, otherwise, I’m sure you would have at least a vague memory that this was mentioned earlier. So, it is quite possible that the surname Carbonell, was a retcon on Quesada's part.
I maintain, however, that the adoption retcon was racist. Because, since Iron Man is now the most important Marvel character, his Latin mother was a stain that needed to be washed.
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[QUOTE=Iron Maiden;5075829]The one thing I did find (which I posted several pages ago here) was that in Terry Kavanaugh's Iron Man #322, her maiden name appears on the tombstone. And no, Collins is not a middle name. So the Carbonell could be explained I suppose Howard were the second husband (rich widow maybe?)
[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pnLXZ2bPj][IMG]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/LXZ2bP.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
That would make for one crazy addition to the tradition of Iron Man/Doctor Doom time travel stories. My head canon is that Doom (along with Reed and Ben)is in his early 40s and Stark is in his mid to late 30's. Still with time travel it's possible. We found out a couple of years ago In Fearless Defenders that Doom and Morgan le Fey's time travel affair resulted in a daughter that when brought forward to the present is older than her father.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and I thank you for that! You opened the interesting possibility that the surname Carbonell was also a retcon. It doesn't change my opinion, that retconning Tony's parents was racist. But it´s interesting to know, that it may not be the first time, that this has been retconed. Iron Man's very origin, has been retconed several times after all.
I wouldn't have liked Doctor Doom being revealed as Tony's father. But at least, it would have been a much more significant revelation, and it could explain why someone as self-centered as Doom, would suddenly take on someone else's superhero identity, who, on top of that, was an old enemy
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[QUOTE=BitParallel;5076134]Why is Tony luck always so terrible with fathers xD .. well recently it’s mephisto wtf[/QUOTE]
What??? When did that happened?
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They should just bring back 1990s teen Tony and start over. He's still around the Marvel Universe isn't he?
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Keep on-topic here and please refrain from making it a personal issue folks. No need to make insinuations about one another.
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Let's break down the arguments here
(1) Tony Stark's biological parents were originally Howard and Maria Stark.
(2) Maria's maiden name was Carbonell
(3) Carbonell is a Spanish name
(4) Tony Stark's parentage was retconned to Jude LNU and Amanda Amrstrong
Conclusions:
(5) Tony Stark is half-latino from his mother's side.
(6) Tony Stark was retconned into no longer being half-Latino.
(7) The retcon was due to Marvel seeing Tony's parentage as a stain on a flagship character
(8) The retcon is the most racist retcon in Marvel history
(3) has been debunked to hell and back as a Catalan name. While names often shift languages, they are not indicators of ethnicity or race. The name Adam can be used in Great Britain, France, Russia, Poland, Czechia, and many more I'm leaving out. Maria is even less of an indicator since you can trace it back as far back as to the New Testament as the Koine Greek name of the Virgin Mary. The whole thing is dubious at best since we don't have any other information. Therefore, (5) and (6) are dubious at best.
By extension, (7) is also highly dubious as this is a slippery slope. (8) would also fall into the umbrella of slippery slope. You're going to need to do way more to prove this.
The idea that this is a racist retcon hinges on the assumptions about a name being concrete proof of ethnicity. It renders the conclusions dubious at best.
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[QUOTE=U.N. Owen;5077530]Let's break down the arguments here
(1) Tony Stark's biological parents were originally Howard and Maria Stark.
(2) Maria's maiden name was Carbonell
(3) Carbonell is a Spanish name
(4) Tony Stark's parentage was retconned to Jude LNU and Amanda Amrstrong
Conclusions:
(5) Tony Stark is half-latino from his mother's side.
(6) Tony Stark was retconned into no longer being half-Latino.
(7) The retcon was due to Marvel seeing Tony's parentage as a stain on a flagship character
(8) The retcon is the most racist retcon in Marvel history
(3) has been debunked to hell and back as a Catalan name. While names often shift languages, they are not indicators of ethnicity or race. The name Adam can be used in Great Britain, France, Russia, Poland, Czechia, and many more I'm leaving out. Maria is even less of an indicator since you can trace it back as far back as to the New Testament as the Koine Greek name of the Virgin Mary. The whole thing is dubious at best since we don't have any other information. Therefore, (5) and (6) are dubious at best.
By extension, (7) is also highly dubious as this is a slippery slope. (8) would also fall into the umbrella of slippery slope. You're going to need to do way more to prove this.
The idea that this is a racist retcon hinges on the assumptions about a name being concrete proof of ethnicity. It renders the conclusions dubious at best.[/QUOTE]
Agreed on all of this. Can we just focus on how stupid it is that Tony was adopted, all for a 'secret sibling', a cliche in the 80s?
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Just to add, I found this a couple of days ago:
[url]https://forebears.io/surnames/carbonell[/url]
My college friend is one of those 6,926 Carbonell's from the Philippines which ranked third in terms of absolute numbers, at least in 2014 per that website's data.
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[QUOTE=ARkadelphia;5076392]Like Steve Sanders in Beverly Hills 90210[/QUOTE]
Lmao exactly. It would be uncanny since Samantha was under utilized and so is Maria. Difference is, Tony loves his mama. He’s a mama boy
[QUOTE=Maria Stark;5077196]I ignored it for a while, until I started to bother with it again. That's because, I sincerely believe, that this retcon was not motivated by creative decisions, but by racism. And that is something I cannot ignore.[/QUOTE]
It’s a stupid retcon. I’m just hoping the new relaunch will bring us to square one.
[QUOTE=Maria Stark;5077237]What??? When did that happened?[/QUOTE]
Argh another hack writer ruining the Starks. Jason Aaron’s Avengers #31
I doubt it’s legit. Just mephisto takin a piss
[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;5077601]Agreed on all of this. Can we just focus on how stupid it is that Tony was adopted, all for a 'secret sibling', a cliche in the 80s?[/QUOTE]
It added nothing to Tonys character. We could’ve just explored the Carbonells but instead we got a plot that no one likes and obnoxious characters (Arno, Amanda and Jude) just no.
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[QUOTE=BitParallel;5077915]It added nothing to Tonys character. We could’ve just explored the Carbonells but instead we got a plot that no one likes and obnoxious characters (Arno, Amanda and Jude) just no.[/QUOTE]
For me, it's not just that it doesn't add anything, it's that it needlessly complicates his backstory.
'Tony Stark was secret adopted so that his adopted parents didn't have to surrender their paralyzed, also super genius son to a Recorder who would then plug him into a rogue space monster'.
Did I miss anything?
Not even Cable's backstory is that complicated. And like you said, it adds nothing
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;5077965]For me, it's not just that it doesn't add anything, it's that it needlessly complicates his backstory.
'Tony Stark was secret adopted so that his adopted parents didn't have to surrender their paralyzed, also super genius son to a Recorder who would then plug him into a rogue space monster'.
Did I miss anything?
Not even Cable's backstory is that complicated. And like you said, it adds nothing[/QUOTE]
Quoted for absolute truth!
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;5077965]For me, it's not just that it doesn't add anything, it's that it needlessly complicates his backstory.
'Tony Stark was secret adopted so that his adopted parents didn't have to surrender their paralyzed, also super genius son to a Recorder who would then plug him into a rogue space monster'.
Did I miss anything?
Not even Cable's backstory is that complicated. And like you said, it adds nothing[/QUOTE]
And you know what’s funny, since we know Arno is 5 years older than Tony. What happened to Howard’s decoy plan and why did it take them 5 years to find a replacement.
I guess genius Howard was waiting on Tony cus he had a vision that Tony would grow up and look just like him /s
