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[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5637373]I agree with this. It’s on odd hang up to be upset about the Fenris twins when Sinister is on your ruling council. Sinister worked with the Nazi’s right or am I remembering it wrong.
If villains like him and Selene get a clean slate so should Fenris.[/QUOTE]
Honestly the nazi thing is a non factor in this situation for me. Monet sat there talking about how she will do business clean and giving some great points about toxic masculinity and how it effects people but then as Jbenito said, she took the choice out of this woman hands when she forced herself on her. The first thought i had when reading that scene felt very close to thinking someone was raped. And in a lot of ways that is what monet attempted here. I been all behind this era but i'm not going to pretend what is in front of me didn't happen to sugar coat it. Monet straight up attacked that woman despite who she may or may not have had contact with. It was just wrong
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5637420]Honestly the nazi thing is a non factor in this situation for me. Monet sat there talking about how she will do business clean and giving some great points about toxic masculinity and how it effects people but then as Jbenito said, she took the choice out of this woman hands when she forced herself on her. The first thought i had when reading that scene felt very close to thinking someone was raped. And in a lot of ways that is what monet attempted here. I been all behind this era but i'm not going to pretend what is in front of me didn't happen to sugar coat it. Monet straight up attacked that woman despite who she may or may not have had contact with. It was just wrong[/QUOTE]
Yeah I’d agree Monet definitely was in the wrong here, although I would probably use the term assault instead of rape to describe her actions.
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[QUOTE=pkingdom;5637328]Its a weird point to go after the business lady for working with the evil twins when [B]so much of the relaunch is about giving the evil mutants second chances. [/B] They're literally living on Krakoa doing the same things everyone else is doing. Hell, this very team is going to have Selene and Mastermind on it next issue.
Money abused her powers without a second thought, and[B] her tenuous control of Penance[/B] could have gotten people hurt.[/QUOTE] St. John is a human. she shouldn't have gotten a first chance. And from what we've been shown theres no reason to think M's control over her Penance Form is nohhing but impeccable weird you seem to think otherwise.
[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5637373]I agree with this. It’s on odd hang up to be upset about the Fenris twins when Sinister is on your ruling council. Sinister worked with the Nazi’s right or am I remembering it wrong.
If villains like him and Selene get a clean slate so should Fenris.[/QUOTE]Sinister wasnt into the idealogy of the Nazi's tho. Selene is less evil than a Nazi IMHO
[QUOTE=jwatson;5637420]Honestly the nazi thing is a non factor in this situation for me. Monet sat there talking about how she will do business clean and giving some great points about toxic masculinity and how it effects people but then as Jbenito said, she took the choice out of this woman hands when she forced herself on her. The first thought i had when reading that scene felt very close to thinking someone was raped. [B]And in a lot of ways that is what monet attempted here. I been all behind this era but i'm not going to pretend what is in front of me didn't happen to sugar coat it.[/B] [B]Monet straight up attacked that woman despite who she may or may not have had contact with[/B]. It was just wrong[/QUOTE]WHat you see as 'rape' I see as taken precaution. There is no 'may or may not have had contact with' She is chummy with Fenris ....THe same people who are Neo Nazis....The Same people who tried to kill M and her friends years back....If M hadn't gone the attack we know what woulda happened. THe lady woulda shot her with the the needle anyway. M just woulda looked like a chump
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5638713]St. John is a human. she shouldn't have gotten a first chance. And from what we've been shown theres no reason to think M's control over her Penance Form is nohhing but impeccable weird you seem to think otherwise.
Sinister wasnt into the idealogy of the Nazi's tho. Selene is less evil than a Nazi IMHO
WHat you see as 'rape' I see as taken precaution. There is no 'may or may not have had contact with' She is chummy with Fenris ....THe same people who are Neo Nazis....The Same people who tried to kill M and her friends years back....If M hadn't gone the attack we know what woulda happened. THe lady woulda shot her with the the needle anyway. M just woulda looked like a chump[/QUOTE]
1. St. John was doing business period she did nothing wrong by consulting them and hiring them. As soon as M’s ego got flipped on her she gets mad and Penance comes out so no she doesn’t have control over her other side and could have seriously hurt or murdered her.
2. It don’t matter if he didn’t believe in the ideology Sinister went along with a regime conducting genocide against people for his own benefit and their planes. Selene still killed people over centuries so regardless she has a high body count of innocent people.
3. There was no precaution Monet wanted to blackmail her by intruding into her mind by force. St.John wasn’t an active threat. Monet shouldn’t be in corporate if she can’t learn to get people to give information from their mouth instead of pushing herself into their heads.
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5638713]
Sinister wasnt into the idealogy of the Nazi's tho. Selene is less evil than a Nazi IMHO[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but I have to call you out on this. Sinister may not hate the Jews specifically but his whole shtick is Eugenics and creating "the perfect mutant." That's 1 to 1 in terms of ideology. He kept mutants against their will in camps, he slaughtered the Morolocks he's tried to forcibly combine Scott and Jean's DNA. He worked with the Nazi's....Do I need to keep going? The point is Monet is a hypocrite right now.
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[quote=wolverine12;5638803]i'm sorry but i have to call you out on this. Sinister may not hate the jews specifically but his whole shtick is eugenics and creating "the perfect mutant." that's 1 to 1 in terms of ideology. He kept mutants against their will in camps, he slaughtered the morolocks he's tried to forcibly combine scott and jean's dna. He worked with the nazi's....do i need to keep going? The point is monet is a hypocrite right now.[/quote]
thank you!!!
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Since everybody got a free pass, its nonsensical to judge the lady for this. Since the relaunch, the Fenris twins have done nothing obviously evil, and are just competing with X-corp by offering the same product. All the lady did was go to a competitor and Monet tried to mess with her mind over it. And we haven't seen this St. John lady do anything wrong herself, so to act like she 'deserved it' is pretty terrible.
Hell, Selene has done worse SINCE the relaunch-free pass! Was the big villain for an entire arc in Captain America, and seemingly got hauled off to Krakoa for 'justice' after all the things she did there.
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5638713]
Sinister wasnt into the idealogy of the Nazi's tho. Selene is less evil than a Nazi IMHO
[/QUOTE]
🙄🙄🤷🏻
Selene eats people without powers as if they were ice cream, for the simple vain fact of looking young and beautiful, and she even sacrificed them in a volcano for poor fun.
LOL
It is fortunate that her drainage powers only seem high and lethal with humans without powers, because with humans with powers or mutants
for luck she is quite slow and inefficient in draining, or Selene would have already finished with half Marvel.
So they seem just as evil if not more.
One mass murderer is just as bad as another.
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[QUOTE=Sylarmax;5639023] One mass murderer is just as bad as another. [/QUOTE]
She has to kill to survive, but so do we humans. Every day I have to consume the flesh of animals and / or plants, and they do not survive the experience of providing me sustenance.
Selene, as far as we know, does not have to kill *people* to survive, any more than I have to eat exclusively human flesh. She might well be able to sustain herself quite well off of smaller non-lethal feeding sessions, or off of the life-force of animals already headed for the slaughter, minimizing her impact on sapient people.
But she doesn't bother, and that makes her evil with a capital E.
If someone like Proteus, whose mutation requires burning out people to survive, can embrace a path that doesn't involve killing people, then Selene (or Emplate) should be able to as well.
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Honestly, screw the Struckers and any who associate with them (pending the tv versions showing up)
The word thing by is that since Daddy Strucker keeps having Zola pop out new clones of them, there should have been more than enough reason to leave them at the back of the Queue
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[QUOTE=Covetous_One;5638749]1. St. John was doing business period she did nothing wrong by consulting them and hiring them. As soon as M’s ego got flipped on her she gets mad and Penance comes out so no she doesn’t have control over her other side and could have seriously hurt or murdered her.
2. It don’t matter if he didn’t believe in the ideology Sinister went along with a regime conducting genocide against people for his own benefit and their planes. Selene still killed people over centuries so regardless she has a high body count of innocent people.
3. There was no precaution Monet wanted to blackmail her by intruding into her mind by force. St.John wasn’t an active threat. Monet shouldn’t be in corporate if she can’t learn to get people to give information from their mouth instead of pushing herself into their heads.[/QUOTE]
On the surface these are all good points buuuut...
1. Openly doing business with Nazis comes with a lil baggage. People you do business with effect how people interact with you/your business. M being a a racial minority acted superbly in her dealing with someone who's cool with being chummy with white supremacists. Her Penance form wascony triggered by the trap St. John had laid. It wasn't cause she was mad or upset.
2. Ehhhh it kinda does matter/make a distinction.
3. She wasn't tryna get stock tios. She attempted to gain access to what St. John knew for KraKoa her country. She knows that to keep KraKoa growing and as a player in world politics they're gonna have to maintain their usefulness to the already wary human nations. Fernis could potentially bring a that down and sell out to the humand. Bringing not just M or the company back to square one but every Mutant ion the island.
[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5638803]I'm sorry but I have to call you out on this. Sinister may not hate the Jews specifically but his whole shtick is Eugenics and creating "the perfect mutant." That's 1 to 1 in terms of ideology. He kept mutants against their will in camps, he slaughtered the Morolocks he's tried to forcibly combine Scott and Jean's DNA. He worked with the Nazi's....Do I need to keep going? The point is Monet is a hypocrite right now.[/QUOTE]And again it makes a difference. Sinister is no doubt an amoral killer but he's better than a Nazi lol... when did he keep mutants in camps??
[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5639238]Honestly, screw the Struckers and any who associate with them (pending the tv versions showing up)
Lol nahhh
- [ ] Thle word thing by is that since Daddy Strucker keeps having Zola pop out new clones of them, there should have been more than enough reason to leave them at the back of the Queue[/QUOTE]
lol right!
but nahhh the Struckers from the gifted can go suck an egg
[QUOTE=pkingdom;5638986]
Since everybody got a free pass, its nonsensical to judge the lady for this. Since the relaunch, the Fenris twins have done nothing obviously evil, and are just competing with X-corp by offering the same product. All the lady did was go to a competitor and Monet tried to mess with her mind over it. And we haven't seen this St. John lady do anything wrong herself, so to act like she 'deserved it' is pretty terrible.[/QUOTE]
Errr we haven't seen them renounce their WS ideology either. And again fenris wasn't offering anything but stolen information that could potentially destabilize KraKoa. Also like M said in the coming... setting up a trap IS provocation Also who comes byk a busines meeting with a needle ex with a cocktail designed incapacitate their audience
[QUOTE=pkingdom;5638986]Hell, Selene has done worse SINCE the relaunch-free pass! Was the big villain for an entire arc in Captain America, and seemingly got hauled off to Krakoa for 'justice' after all the things she did there.[/QUOTE]
No body reads Captain America..... lol
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5641492]On the surface these are all good points buuuut...
1. Openly doing business with Nazis comes with a lil baggage. People you do business with effect how people interact with you/your business. M being a a racial minority acted superbly in her dealing with someone who's cool with being chummy with white supremacists. Her Penance form wascony triggered by the trap St. John had laid. It wasn't cause she was mad or upset.[/quote]
I'm pro Krakoa, but this statement is hypocritical, calling out St. John for doing business would be the same as calling out Krakoa for doing business with Apocalypse or Selene or one of the dozens of villains Krakao harbors. The trap you refer to only happened because Monet assaulted St. John, that's not a trap that's self defense.
[quote]2. Ehhhh it kinda does matter/make a distinction. [/quote]
Again you're being hypocritical, Sinister working with/for the Nazi's while not believing in their entire ideology (even though he really does) doesn't somehow make him better than the Nazi's, the dude was down with the stuff you say you're against but it doesn't fit your argument so your handwaving it, that's not a debate my friend.
[quote]3. She wasn't tryna get stock tios. She attempted to gain access to what St. John knew for KraKoa her country. She knows that to keep KraKoa growing and as a player in world politics they're gonna have to maintain their usefulness to the already wary human nations. Fernis could potentially bring a that down and sell out to the humand. Bringing not just M or the company back to square one but every Mutant ion the island. [/quote]
Assault is assault regardless of your reasons, and Monet isn't part of X-Force (even though she should be) this happened at a business conference, and she had no proof that St. John even had any useful info to begin with.
[quote]And again it makes a difference. Sinister is no doubt an amoral killer but he's better than a Nazi lol... when did he keep mutants in camps??[/quote]
You claimed Sinister didn't follow their (Nazi) ideology, I gave several examples proving that statement was false and now your changing your argument to what? He's a killer but his killing wasn't as bad as the Nazi's even though he partnered with the Nazi's? Sinister's whole history is littered with him kidnapping and holding mutants against their will, that's when he kept them in camps, pen's, jails whatever term you want to use. Refer to my previous post to see other examples of how Sinister was in boot step with Nazi practices.
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Wasn't going to pick this up as the first two issues didn't do it for me, but picked it up today as I'm a fan of Valentine De Landro, particularly his previous X-work in the 2000s with PAD.
It's.... a bit better, but unfortunately Monet's "mutant-first" schtick is already boring, and it's hard to get excited about faster broadband when yer mates just terraformed bloody Mars.
Cover looked great, art was excellent and the wee back-up Madrox thingy was fun. Just a shame the main story and characters read like weaponised boredom.
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Didn't sinister canonically work directly with Mengele?
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5638713]St. John is a human. she shouldn't have gotten a first chance. And from what we've been shown theres no reason to think M's control over her Penance Form is nohhing but impeccable weird you seem to think otherwise.
Sinister wasnt into the idealogy of the Nazi's tho. Selene is less evil than a Nazi IMHO
WHat you see as 'rape' I see as taken precaution. There is no 'may or may not have had contact with' She is chummy with Fenris ....THe same people who are Neo Nazis....The Same people who tried to kill M and her friends years back....If M hadn't gone the attack we know what woulda happened. THe lady woulda shot her with the the needle anyway. M just woulda looked like a chump[/QUOTE]
The precaution would have been not trying to forcibly extract information from someone's brain just because you can. M made herself look like a chump because at the end of the day she lost this round because of her behavior.