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[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4433293]It's entirely in character for Logan. The only two people he gives two craps about (Jean and debatably Laura) are dead as far as he knows. Going out getting drunk and waiting for the end of the world is exactly what OML did.
I can only hope this run will be forgotten. But considering Hickman's "favorites" are Magneto and the White Queen of the Hellfire Club, I imagine this is setting up Mags, Sabretooth, Mystique, and Emma skulking around wondering how they can get those meddling X-Men before they stop their plans of world domination. I hope I'm wrong though.[/QUOTE]
I have higher hopes for Emma & Mags.
Creed & Mystique will be the moustache-twirlers. Both of whom need a loooong break..
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1 Attachment(s)
For some reason Marvel rejected the proposal that the cover of Scott and Logan in Uncanny # 22 be this one.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]83971[/ATTACH]
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[QUOTE=TheCape;4433178]Alson Stryker was lying because Jackman Wolverine was pretty far for being what he described most of the time, even Classic Logan would think that he was too soft.[/QUOTE]
Ha. Very true. But all that came afterwards in the crappy XMO:W. At the time of X2, I feel very confident they had something different in mind in terms of his nature prior to Weapon X.
[QUOTE=TheCape;4433175]Logan was always a wild man with the heart of a beast, he did ruthless stuff at some point, but it stated that he did it because he didn't saw other choice at the moment, kill one being to save hundreds, like putting that bear at the beginning of the Wolverine mini out of comission. Way didn't do that, his Logan was just a puppet that followed orders and basically has no agency for most of his life worse than that he basically told us that any moment of his 80s and 90s incarnation were lies, he didn't even join the X-Men by his own will, he was send there by Romulus and then Xavier brainwashed him into a good guy, that for me just destroy him conceptually as a characther. Loeb goes even worse by implying that Logan founded Weapon X.
Is not even "He was bad, but now he wants redemption" is pretty much "he was always a bastard and only stopped being one because he was forced" that just make everything that i read about Logan from 77 to 94 (his best period) a lie and i'm simply not ok with that.[/QUOTE]
Not sure I agree that everything we’ve read about Logan that came before was a lie. People have layers. They have good moments and not so good moments. Furthermore, I think Logan’s “being a puppet who was just following orders” shows just how deep Romulus had his hooks in him and was manipulating him. It was almost like he was a Manchurian Candidate type operative who didn’t even realize he was being manipulated during that time. And he wasn’t that way all the time. When he wasn’t being triggered and deployed by Romulus, he was free to be more himself. That’s when we saw a nobler side to him.
Hmm... here’s an interesting theory: If the mindwipe and torture at the hands of Weapon X is what freed Logan from Romulus’ control ultimately, and we are to believe the latter that the Weapon X program to make “superhero killers” was Logan’s idea, is it possible that he knew this might be his way to break free?
Probably not Loeb’s intent. But might be a cool way to twist an otherwise kind of crappy story. At least IMO.
Regardless, all I’m saying is that I don’t hate or even have a problem with Logan not having been a good person prior to Weapon X. I don’t even hate him having been retconned into being a plant with the X-men sent to assassinate Xavier. Similar to Ultimate X-men actually. It’s not something that bothers me or turns me off to the character and who he is today. I’m at peace with it.
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[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4433293]It's entirely in character for Logan. The only two people he gives two craps about (Jean and debatably Laura) are dead as far as he knows. Going out getting drunk and waiting for the end of the world is exactly what OML did.
I can only hope this run will be forgotten. But considering Hickman's "favorites" are Magneto and the White Queen of the Hellfire Club, I imagine this is setting up Mags, Sabretooth, Mystique, and Emma skulking around wondering how they can get those meddling X-Men before they stop their plans of world domination. I hope I'm wrong though.[/QUOTE]
OML was trying to avoid his own timeline on his solo series. So I'm not sure that he would stop trying to protect mutants just to get drunk
Magneto and Emma are his favorite characters, if anything like sam and roberto on avengers, Emma fans are about to get a Morrison/Whedon 2.0 Emma renaiscense; Soon everyone gonna forget rosenberg run
Hickman never said white queen of hellfire club, just white queen that was her codename for decades
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[QUOTE=TheCape;4433309]You also forgot Kurt, Piort, Jubilee, Kitty, Rogue, Gambit, Storm, all of the are closer to Logan than Jean ever was (and he still cares about her), hell no one is more important for Logan than Kurt. I'm not going to debate about what Emma did, because i haven't read those issues, but saying that cares only about those 2 is a big lie.
Also Old Man Logan tried to kill himself because he was responsible for the X-Men's death and decided to kill his past in order to protect his new family (wich didn't pan out well).[/QUOTE]
Right that statement confused me too lol. Like just including Logan’s “daughters”, Kitty, Jubilee, and Armor are way closer to Logan than Laura. Logan and Laura were never all that close.
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Of all the “dead” X-Men that Logan considers family: Ororo, Kurt, Kitty, Hank, Rachel, Cece, Jubilee, Idie, Hisako, Piotr, and Betsy. Plus, Logan was pretty involved with all the kids enrolled during JGS except like Hellion. The only kid he’s sure is alive from that school is Quentin.
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[QUOTE=Tycon;4433407]Of all the “dead” X-Men that Logan considers family: Ororo, Kurt, Kitty, Hank, Rachel, Cece, Jubilee, Idie, Hisako, Piotr, and Betsy. Plus, Logan was pretty involved with all the kids enrolled during JGS except like Hellion. The only kid he’s sure is alive from that school is Quentin.[/QUOTE]
Dust joined after AvsX but she has always been more tied to Scott, of course.
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[QUOTE=Tycon;4433407]Of all the “dead” X-Men that Logan considers family: Ororo, Kurt, Kitty, Hank, Rachel, Cece, Jubilee, Idie, Hisako, Piotr, and Betsy. Plus, Logan was pretty involved with all the kids enrolled during JGS except like Hellion. The only kid he’s sure is alive from that school is Quentin.[/QUOTE]
Superior Spider-Man is so good that a half-a-panel reunion between two guest stars from a different franchise is softer and more wholesome than most of the actual franchise's output.
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558273925939986455/594628345904234507/image0.png[/img]
cute as ****
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[QUOTE=Jackraow21;4433329]Ha. Very true. But all that came afterwards in the crappy XMO:W. At the time of X2, I feel very confident they had something different in mind in terms of his nature prior to Weapon X.
Not sure I agree that everything we’ve read about Logan that came before was a lie. People have layers. They have good moments and not so good moments. Furthermore, I think Logan’s “being a puppet who was just following orders” shows just how deep Romulus had his hooks in him and was manipulating him. It was almost like he was a Manchurian Candidate type operative who didn’t even realize he was being manipulated during that time. And he wasn’t that way all the time. When he wasn’t being triggered and deployed by Romulus, he was free to be more himself. That’s when we saw a nobler side to him.
Hmm... here’s an interesting theory: If the mindwipe and torture at the hands of Weapon X is what freed Logan from Romulus’ control ultimately, and we are to believe the latter that the Weapon X program to make “superhero killers” was Logan’s idea, is it possible that he knew this might be his way to break free?
Probably not Loeb’s intent. But might be a cool way to twist an otherwise kind of crappy story. At least IMO.
Regardless, all I’m saying is that I don’t hate or even have a problem with Logan not having been a good person prior to Weapon X. I don’t even hate him having been retconned into being a plant with the X-men sent to assassinate Xavier. Similar to Ultimate X-men actually. It’s not something that bothers me or turns me off to the character and who he is today. I’m at peace with it.[/QUOTE]
We saw Logan acting without Romulus influence in the series, he killed a bunch of japanese prisioners in the process, he didn't show layers, he was either an animal or an animal with a leash most of the time, his only redeming thing was how he treated his lovers and even then the run implied that Logan used then as an excuse to be more violent.
Also Weapon X didn't free Logan from Romulus control he was still his pupet during his first figth with Hulk, it was Xavier who freed him. That kind of story works for Ultimate Wolverine, because that version was a bastard from day one and his redemption is more effective, but that doesn't work for the main version, it change too much about what we knew about him.
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[QUOTE=Glio;4433414]Dust joined after AvsX but she has always been more tied to Scott, of course.[/QUOTE]
Has Logan been close to any generation of students besides the JGS crew? I guess the New Mutants kinda sorta? He treats most of the Academy X kids like kids he desperately wants to ignore.
[QUOTE=Snoop Dogg;4433437]Superior Spider-Man is so good that a half-a-panel reunion between two guest stars from a different franchise is softer and more wholesome than most of the actual franchise's output.
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558273925939986455/594628345904234507/image0.png[/img]
cute as ****[/QUOTE]
[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/100eed5c4dd9c20dd1b43a5e33363f11/tumblr_pqu1yiwwmK1ru09bvo1_400.jpg[/img]
Which was cuter?
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goddamn x-office can't bring the UWUs everybody else gotta do it for 'em
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Amazing how the books that are not related to the X-men franchise have continually treating the X-men characters so well compared to their parent office.
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[QUOTE=Snoop Dogg;4433437]Superior Spider-Man is so good that a half-a-panel reunion between two guest stars from a different franchise is softer and more wholesome than most of the actual franchise's output.
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558273925939986455/594628345904234507/image0.png[/img]
cute as ****[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Tycon;4433488]Has Logan been close to any generation of students besides the JGS crew? I guess the New Mutants kinda sorta? He treats most of the Academy X kids like kids he desperately wants to ignore.
[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/100eed5c4dd9c20dd1b43a5e33363f11/tumblr_pqu1yiwwmK1ru09bvo1_400.jpg[/img]
Which was cuter?[/QUOTE]
Both are total daddies
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[QUOTE=phoenixzero23;4433571]Both are total daddies[/QUOTE]
...Just say dads, in case you're not referring to how hot they are lool.
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[QUOTE]Has Logan been close to any generation of students besides the JGS crew? I guess the New Mutants kinda sorta? He treats most of the Academy X kids like kids he desperately wants to ignore.[/QUOTE]
He sort of acted like an uncle to the New Mutants in the old days, there is an annual when he telling a story about a female samurai in a campfire. Although Sam was the only one that really got close to him (he even defended him from Juggernaut), but generally, Logan doesn't interact with kids longer that needs too, he is aware that he is a terrible influence, his tight friendships with his sidekicks were more accidental than anything to be honest.
[QUOTE]Amazing how the books that are not related to the X-men franchise have continually treating the X-men characters so well compared to their parent office.[/QUOTE]
I had to read Venom books in order to get a proper 616 Wolverine tale, that just tell you what you need to know.