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[QUOTE=My Two Cents;3830802]When John Byrne left co-plotting with Claremont to start writing on his own the work was very good,
the same for George Perez when he left co-plotting with Marv Wolfman to write Wonder Woman,
but as time and the influence they received co-plotting diminished, so did there ability in writing
good stories.[/QUOTE]
I'm not quite sure what you mean here.
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[QUOTE=My Two Cents;3829757]To me a good long running story will make the characters involved better, while poor stories will
end up in hurting the development in the characters and overall reader interest in buying the book.[/QUOTE]
bingo (IMO)
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[QUOTE=Chocolate Starmie;3830222]
The most recent example I can think of was in IDW TMNT annual that was both written and drawn by Kevin Eastman. I love his gritty dark cartoony style, but the dialogue and story was so bad I couldn't even finish it[/QUOTE]
Jim Shooter was once pushed into drawing for Valient under the name Paul Credick
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It's the only thing that matters
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[QUOTE=LifeIsILL;3849537]It's the only thing that matters[/QUOTE]
The best artists are the ones that tell stories well, This is why Swan lasted so long. He wa s a good story teller (even with a bad script). But look how many books have surived without good stories for so long. As long as product is dependable the books sell.
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When I was a kid, I was all about the artwork. I still cared about the story, but what really excited me was the great artists. Fast forward to me recently returning to comics, I had expected - as an adult - to care less about the art and more about the writing. But to my surprise, the artwork still seems to matter more to me. I'd still rather take a mediocre Mark Bagley Spider-Man comic over a well-written Sal Buscema comic.
That's not to say that a good story is irrelevant to me, it's still very, very important. But I simply find that great artwork can distract from a poorly written story in a way that a great story cannot distract from poor artwork. Comics are a visual medium.
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[QUOTE=Hive;3883115]When I was a kid, I was all about the artwork. I still cared about the story, but what really excited me was the great artists. Fast forward to me recently returning to comics, I had expected - as an adult - to care less about the art and more about the writing. But to my surprise, the artwork still seems to matter more to me. I'd still rather take a mediocre Mark Bagley Spider-Man comic over a well-written Sal Buscema comic.
That's not to say that a good story is irrelevant to me, it's still very, very important. But I simply find that great artwork can distract from a poorly written story in a way that a great story cannot distract from poor artwork. Comics are a visual medium.[/QUOTE]
The Marvel way of storyboarding put the Artist into the storytelling pipeline and that highlihgted the artist more than the writers in many cases. In the end, the pages have to be delivered by the artist, or you have no book.
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Both are important.
But if the comic has bad art, I'll never know if the story is any good, because I won't pick it up.
Comics are sequential story telling first and foremost, so if the art is bad... why even bother with it?
And if the story is boring/underwhelming naturally you'll stop reading/buying the comic right?
So yeah, they go hand in hand.
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[QUOTE=Wollodrin;3886318]Both are important.
But if the comic has bad art, I'll never know if the story is any good, because I won't pick it up.
Comics are sequential story telling first and foremost, so if the art is bad... why even bother with it?
And if the story is boring/underwhelming naturally you'll stop reading/buying the comic right?
So yeah, they go hand in hand.[/QUOTE]
The art needs to be good enough to support the story, I think. Did you ever read Ms Tree?
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100% story matters more to me. comics are first and foremost a means of storytelling, with the art there to help tell the story.
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[QUOTE=canadianaidan64;3910348]100% story matters more to me. comics are first and foremost a means of storytelling, with the art there to help tell the story.[/QUOTE]
But, with comics, there is a significant difference between comics, novels, and movies. Of all these format, in comics the most important part of the sotry telling experience is between the panels. This is where your imagination comes in and creates a continous story where otherwise there is none.
And there have been different relationships between artists and writers. I was listen to how Gerald describes how Mr Miracle is done and that is very different than the classic Marvel style of writing.
But for the long term success, the key thing is that the title presents consistency in style and story for the franchise to be a success, which is why DC was so hellbent on the house look for Superman, for instance.
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It helps sell how great the characters are or can be by being engaging as it unfolds events and valuable plot threads.
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[QUOTE=Speed Force League Unlimited;3929245]It helps sell how great the characters are or can be by being engaging as it unfolds events and valuable plot threads.[/QUOTE]
the story or the art?
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[QUOTE=mrbrklyn;3929247]the story or the art?[/QUOTE]The writing mostly.
The art is an important tool in making the story good, so I guess I should include it as well.
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[QUOTE=Speed Force League Unlimited;3929637]The writing mostly.
The art is an important tool in making the story good, so I guess I should include it as well.[/QUOTE]
OK - so here is my question, which might outline the point of this thread.
Why does Archie sell well after decades?