Just two points i would like to make
"agenda-free stories" Marvel or Comics always had that. Going so far back as the first Captain America or Superman comics.
"Same with Kamala Khan who is also given more depth as a character and less emphasis on her religion/race." I think you never read her comic if you believe that is nescassary.
[QUOTE=lowfyr;4995574]
"agenda-free stories" Marvel or Comics always had that. Going so far back as the first Captain America or Superman comics.[/QUOTE]
lol right. Agenda-free Marvel, starring Captain No-Country, Iron Man who never went to war, Hulk who never worked at a military base, Captain Marvel who was never a soldier herself, etc.
[QUOTE=nandes;4995589]lol right. Agenda-free Marvel, starring Captain No-Country, Iron Man who never went to war, Hulk who never worked at a military base, Captain Marvel who was never a soldier herself, etc.[/QUOTE]
I wanted to say Marvel or Comics never were agenda free. Writing on the phone too fast I think^^
[QUOTE=lowfyr;4995599]I wanted to say Marvel or Comics never were agenda free. Writing on the phone too fast I think^^[/QUOTE]
I know! I was agreeing with you haha no probs
this is boring as sin as an x-men stan, if I wanted the 80's back id just reread the hundreds of issues we already have. you literaly say that characters need to be experiemented upon and to become a house of ideas yet remove every character;s progress to return to their most basic status quo.
westchester has blown up way too manytimes, its stinky and smells like corpses.
Id rather have a sick ass island sprawling with potential conected to all sorts of lore, that serves a functional purpose to house a conected franchise, instead of a nostalgia driven overhyped mansion that shoves more than 30 characters into a small space, until its blown up and the main team moves to a more interesting spot (outback era/ sanfrancisco) before getting shoved once more into the mansion to harbringer a terrible period of stories : the 90's, the years after AVX.
The mansion doesnt even have a striking design
edit: also the moxiwaffles should stay as far as possible from magneto or mutants until the end of times.
[QUOTE=Ferro;4995648]this is boring as sin as an x-men stan, if I wanted the 80's back id just reread the hundreds of issues we already have. you literaly say that characters need to be experiemented upon and to become a house of ideas yet remove every character;s progress to return to their most basic status quo.
westchester has blown up way too manytimes, its stinky and smells like corpses.
Id rather have a sick ass island sprawling with potential conected to all sorts of lore, that serves a functional purpose to house a conected franchise, instead of a nostalgia driven overhyped mansion that shoves more than 30 characters into a small space, until its blown up and the main team moves to a more interesting spot (outback era/ sanfrancisco) before getting shoved once more into the mansion to harbringer a terrible period of stories : the 90's, the years after AVX.
The mansion doesnt even have a striking design
edit: also the moxiwaffles should stay as far as possible from magneto or mutants until the end of times.[/QUOTE]
I kind of agree. The mansion is iconic and an integral part of the X-mens history. But going back there now, especially with what Hickman is doing, seems like a major step back. Plus it is a bit like a Helicarrier at this point in that it constantly gets blown up and rebuilt. The Avengers have never really gone back to their Mansion either.
An Island is the perfect place for them. Krakoa is constantly growing and adding new areas daily in order to house the increasing population. So there is an abundance of places yet to be discovered or established.
Marvel is known as the House of Ideas. They need to rebuild that house by coming up with cool new ideas. I'll demonstrate how that can be done...[I][B]by making things exactly as they were a decade ago.[/B][/I]
Where the cool new ideas at?
If you want Marvel to recreate a snapshot of your most nostalgic era of Marvel, just say so, don't be facetious and pretend Marvel hasn't been trying to do new things with their characters (including new clothes!) for the past 8 years.
[QUOTE=nandes;4995631]I know! I was agreeing with you haha no probs[/QUOTE]
OK and Thanks:D
[QUOTE]If you want Marvel to recreate a snapshot of your most nostalgic era of Marvel, just say so, don't be facetious and pretend Marvel hasn't been trying to do new things with their characters (including new clothes!) for the past 8 years. [/QUOTE]
Huh, they have haven't they.... I'm not sure if mediocre to piss-poor changes are better than no change at all.
I mean... not what you're thinking but some of that too. Irking me currently is Quicksilver and Scarlet witch... its like a niggling wrongness there.
FFS.
I am in my mid-twenties so naturally I was not a Marvel reader in 80s. However I have read many comics from past eras and even though they are not my childhood nostalgia, I love both Silver Age and Bronze Age comics. With this I can personally say that Jim Shooter era has the best line of comics Marvel have ever published and not because I have read those comics when I was younger. So without nostalgia factor in play, you can long for to see that quality in today's comics I guess. There were so many great writers and artists who were doing regular work for Marvel at that time.
On the other hand, I don't think Marvel's line of comics in such a bad state right now. Since Cebulski took the helm we started to read better comics. I really feel like Axel Alonso was the problem, by the time he left most of the talented creators were already gone and editors were just not doing their job. I think we read some stories on writers and artists do not want to work under Axel Alonso which are confirming this. Marvel lost their creative staff when Alonso was in charge. When you don't have the talent to make good comics whatever your driving agenda is you will publish bad comics. Since Alonso is fired however, some talented names are back in working for Marvel and there are also new successful names who are doing their first Marvel jobs. On top of that most creators are assigned to the projects where they can shine. Of course there are some series that can be much better. Do I want to read better Avengers or Fantastic Four stories? Hell yes, but you can't expect the whole line to be on the same quality, even though Jim Shooter kinda did that ;)
Wow, I can't believe how regressive this would all be. Marvel doesn't need a soft reboot. These kind of things have made DC's continuity unintelligible.
They also don't need to regress characters into previous states the OP thinks is their best iteration.
They just need to keep moving forward, with more new content and fresh new takes. Nostalgia will always be a major factor in comics, but it can't be everything they have going for them.
And I'm sorry, but Kamala has more depth than most depictions of Carol (and this is coming from a Carol fan) and the last thing she needs is for important themes like race and religion to suddenly be ignored. She had a tremendous run where those factors were explored to great effect, which brought new types of readers Marvel sorely needs. Taking focus away from popular heroes like Kamala and other minorities certainly isn't the answer to building new audiences.
This whole first post just shows how backwards this fanbase can be.
Um no. Horrible idea which I can safely say Marvel thankfully will not do
[QUOTE=lowfyr;4995574]Just two points i would like to make
"agenda-free stories" Marvel or Comics always had that. Going so far back as the first Captain America or Superman comics.
"Same with Kamala Khan who is also given more depth as a character and less emphasis on her religion/race." I think you never read her comic if you believe that is nescassary.[/QUOTE]
He probably hasn't.
Yall see he created a new thread and made sure to attack New Warriors & COA.
Funny someone has an issue with a book that is not out yet.
Folks want to keep blaming Axel and scream talent left Marvel (because they didn't want to work on books with POC-the lie that is passed around).
Excluding Moon Girl, Mosaic, Riri, Doom, Starlord and a few others-everyone else had a book or mini in the previous years.
Bruce Banner was the main guy who was MIA. Everyone else was there in some form or another.
As for editors-can some show PROOF an editor was not doing their job? Someone should be able to name the book and issue and the error.
Like the upcoming Black Panther issue #25 where Kasper Cole is dressed two different ways in the book.
While I agree that, at times, Marvel feels a little too much like that annoyingly tryhard white auntie who wants everyone to know how not racist, sexist, and homophobic she is....for the most part I don't mind. It's gotten us some pretty good runs, like Jane's Thor and Sam's Cap, and it's helped give some much needed spotlight to minority heroes. For that, I can put up with the occasional cringe stuff like New Warriors and Gwenpool.
As a black man, I appreciate a lot of what I've seen from Marvel, these past few years. I love seeing more minority heroes be given all this attention. I love the push to properly represent other cultures. I love that Marvel wants to be as inclusive as possible (and I'll never understand why inclusivity is considered some kind of "political agenda" as if there should be anything political about wanting equal representation).
Turning back the clock like the OP suggests would do such a huge disservice to so many of these characters. There's nothing wrong with Carol getting promoted to Captain Marvel (the problem was Civil War II but that's over and done with. Bendis is off ruining DC characters now) and there's definitely noting wrong with her costume not being "sexy" (If we're being completely honest, I think her Captain Marvel look is a lot better than her Ms. Marvel one). There's nothing wrong with Iceman being gay (there was A LOT wrong with how they went about making him gay. But, again, Bendis the boogeyman is gone now). There's nothing wrong with Miles, Kamala, Laura or any legacy hero for that matter (and there's definitely nothing wrong with having stories centered around their respective cultures). In fact I kinda wish Laura had stayed Wolverine but that might just be my apathy towards Logan talking.
One thing I will agree with is that making Wanda and Pietro Inhumans (or whatever the hell they are now), as well as that entire "Inhumans are the new Mutants" push, was one of the dumbest things Marvel's ever done. And you would not hear me complaining if those couple of years were retconned away. But that's about it. As a whole, I'm perfectly fine with how Marvel is right now. A few stinkers here and there but I'll take the state of things with them over the crushing disappointment I've felt with DC for years.
[QUOTE=nandes;4995589]lol right. Agenda-free Marvel, starring Captain No-Country, Iron Man who never went to war, Hulk who never worked at a military base, Captain Marvel who was never a soldier herself, etc.[/QUOTE]
You win this whole thread.
Lame idea. Marvel has some of the best books It's done in ages, such as Immortal Hulk and X-Men. Both very exciting and full of fresh ideas. Now, let's just reboot everything and come up with ideas 30 year old. LOL.