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[QUOTE=daredevil1;6103321]Nobody cared about those characters and no one would if Feige didn't push certain favorites of his for an agenda. And yes, I would include all the cosmic characters that he pushed for whatever reason too. Black Widow didn't make a billion, and no one is arguing that Eternals are now A-listers just because the movie made more than most. My point is that it isn't a good barometer as had Feige not been the way he was, we could've gotten Daredevil, Punisher, Blade, FF etc instead of BW and CM.[/QUOTE]
Funny how it's always an agenda when characters a small contingent of fans don't like get pushed.
Blade and the FF are getting movies and Punisher and Daredevil got tv shows, with the latter getting a continuation in the works. Never mind that most of these characters not getting movies had more to do with rights issues than Feige having anything against them.
[QUOTE=daredevil1;6099645]In terms of most recognizable, marquee characters? Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America. Always default to what was popular on merchandise back in the 1980s and 90s and if none of them have dipped in popularity, it's likely still true.[/QUOTE]
The only one of these guys that consistently remained popular is Spider-Man. By your own logic, neither Hulk nor Captain America is a-list.
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[QUOTE]Nobody cared about those characters and no one would if Feige didn't push certain favorites of his for an agenda. And yes, I would include all the cosmic characters that he pushed for whatever reason too. Black Widow didn't make a billion, and no one is arguing that Eternals are now A-listers just because the movie made more than most. My point is that it isn't a good barometer as had Feige not been the way he was, we could've gotten Daredevil, Punisher, Blade, FF etc instead of BW and CM.[/QUOTE]
True but it DID get a movie for cm and was a hit, like the movie or hate it. Our library has at least 8 books based on her in the kids sections and even the adult aimed novels and trades of her in our city. She shows up with someone dressed as her with spider-man, hulk, cap, batman and superman and ww at our big festivals every year. She has toys and outfits and tons of merch. Heck my 6 year old niece has two dolls of her along with her frozen doll and tangled dolls! Kids know who captain marvel is. My small nephews know who she is.
Same as men in black and blade in the 90s. Toyfare did a comic strip before the movie making fun of the fact this z-lister blade is getting a movie! Blade had the last laugh. Mib was 3 failed issues. Now it has had 4 movies, a cartoon, more comics, toys, games and a theme park ride at universal studios!
A movie can really skyrocket a hero or sink it like howard the duck if it's good or bad.
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[QUOTE=daredevil1;6103616]
Anyone on the planet was clamoring for it? [/QUOTE]
Yes they were, but maybe not on 4chan where you seem to get your hot takes from.
[QUOTE=daredevil1;6103616]
and none of this is addressing whether characters are A-listers or not.[/QUOTE]
I don't care who you deem an a-lister or not, I was just responding to your arbitrary statement.
I mean none of your post makes actually sense.
The first phases of the MCU were mainly about the Avengers, Phase One's overarching theme was assembling an Avengers team, so why on earth does Feige need an agenda to use characters who actually are Avengers in the comics instead of guys like Daredevil and Punisher who are either barely or not at all associated with the Avengers?
Then there's the fact that all the guys you mention did get movies, most of them even three. None of them was a big success at the box office though, most even outright bombs. The Fantastic Four even got a movie in 2015 that bombed, so no idea what you are going on about. It was made by Fox but that was the case because Feige didn't even have the rights to make a Fantastic Four movie at that time, making your rant even more pointless.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;6103639]Funny how it's always an agenda when characters a small contingent of fans don't like get pushed.
Blade and the FF are getting movies and Punisher and Daredevil got tv shows, with the latter getting a continuation in the works. Never mind that most of these characters not getting movies had more to do with rights issues than Feige having anything against them.
The only one of these guys that consistently remained popular is Spider-Man. By your own logic, neither Hulk nor Captain America is a-list.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what you're trying to say other than this is your version of a "gotcha" that failed. Spidey, Cap and Hulk have had the largest cultural footprint and are still the top 3, I stand by my statement. If you think my own logic is faulty then that shouldn't matter in what you think.
[QUOTE=chicago_bastard;6103838]Yes they were, but maybe not on 4chan where you seem to get your hot takes from.
I don't care who you deem an a-lister or not, I was just responding to your arbitrary statement.
I mean none of your post makes actually sense.
The first phases of the MCU were mainly about the Avengers, Phase One's overarching theme was assembling an Avengers team, so why on earth does Feige need an agenda to use characters who actually are Avengers in the comics instead of guys like Daredevil and Punisher who are either barely or not at all associated with the Avengers?
Then there's the fact that all the guys you mention did get movies, most of them even three. None of them was a big success at the box office though, most even outright bombs. The Fantastic Four even got a movie in 2015 that bombed, so no idea what you are going on about. It was made by Fox but that was the case because Feige didn't even have the rights to make a Fantastic Four movie at that time, making your rant even more pointless.[/QUOTE]
You're just kind of prattling on and on and making this a big woke thing instead of whether anyone who *doesn't* have an avatar with her actually considers Black Widow A-list or more well known than dozens of other characters. Doc Ock is more of an A-lister than her at this point, you want to criticize me for things that are off the main topic. I forgot this forum sometimes becomes a den of people making themselves feel better by saying your takes are from 4chan if you point out that an agenda exists, okay then... if this was a "Natasha Romanov love" thread I wouldn't have even said anything, you can't jump in and blast people for not agreeing with you that Black Widow is the greatest character who ever lived.
No one cares whether it's fair or not, my singular point is that she's not an A-lister. Anyway, moving on...
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[QUOTE=daredevil1;6104694]
No one cares whether it's fair or not, my singular point is that she's not an A-lister. Anyway, moving on...[/QUOTE]
If that was your singular point I wouldn't even have bothered to address you but as anyone can see that clearly wasn't the case. To remind you what you wrote: Your point was that BW got pushed by Feige which is just outright nonsense. And if you want to spout nonsense and not get called out for it I advise you to make your claims on other boards where people agree with you no matter how outrageous the things you may write are. On this board there are too many knowledgeable users to let that happen.
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For people saying Carol Danvers isn't A-Listers, I check around in the Marvel wiki and here is the gap between her 200 appearances in any comic medium over the years.
[B]1968[/B] was her first appearance. She hasn't become Ms.Marvel until [B]1976[/B] when her first solo run was published on that year.
[B]1-200[/B] = 1968 - 2001 (33 years gap)
[B]201-400[/B] = 2001 - 2007 (6 years)
[B]401-600[/B] = 2007 - 2011 (4 years)
[B]601-800[/B] = 2011 - 2014 (3 years)
[B]801-1000[/B] = 2014.8 - 2017.1 (2 years 5 months)
[B]1001-1200[/B] = 2017.1 - 2019.12 (2 years 11 months)
[B]1200 - 1352[/B] = 2020 - presents (2 years onwards)
Honestly, she has been fully risen in her roles in Modern Marvel. People just seem she isn't that popular character.
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Marvel A-Listers...
Spider-Man
Xmen together
Wolverine
Deadpool
Avengers together
Hulk
Capt America
Iron Man
The Miz.
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[QUOTE=LAWtoyoto 432;6095982]I am sure Iron Man, Captain America and Thor along with Spider-Man are considered as A-Listers even before MCU started.[/QUOTE]
Spider-Man: Yes. I disagree with Iron Man, Captain America and Thor being A tiers. Or, if you want to make them A tiers, you have to put Spider-Man and two others into the S tier.
Who are DCs big three aka the Trinity? Everyone can answer that question: It's Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.
Marvel has also a trinity. Three characters, who have always been massively popular with the fans and critics. Their comics sell like hot cakes no matter what. It's Spider-Man, Hulk and Wolverine. Always have been and always will be, no matter how much Marvel tries to push Iron Man and Captain America.
S TIER: Spider-Man, Hulk, Wolverine
A+ TIER: Venom, Deadpool (mainly thanks to the movies and a big comic book push prior to that... otherwise he would be together with the X-Men, who were MASSIVE in the 90s)
A TIER (thanks to the MCU): Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, X-Men (the original members: Storm, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Xavier etc), the Fantastic Four, Loki
B TIER: Daredevil, Punisher, Black Panther (barely and thanks to the movie, which was kinda meh TBH)
C TIER: Captain Marvel (I don't think people truly care about her, but the movie did give her a push), Blade, Guardians of the Galaxy (big movies, but I don't think people care about these characters as much as they care about people in the A tier. It's like, you really like Groot and Rocket Raccoon, but Thor is one of your favorite MCU characters), Silver Surfer
D TIER: Nova, Black Bolt, Moon Knight
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[QUOTE=ENTRYS;6211266]Spider-Man: Yes. I disagree with Iron Man, Captain America and Thor being A tiers. Or, if you want to make them A tiers, you have to put Spider-Man and two others into the S tier.
Who are DCs big three aka the Trinity? Everyone can answer that question: It's Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.
B TIER: Daredevil, Punisher, Black Panther (barely and thanks to the movie, which was kinda meh TBH)
[/QUOTE]
It tore you up inside to put Black Panther in B tier. Your snide “barely” comment makes it obvious. And you took a swing at the movie. Opinions are like a$$holes though.
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[QUOTE]The only one of these guys that consistently remained popular is Spider-Man. By your own logic, neither Hulk nor Captain America is a-list. [/QUOTE]
Popularity isn't a deciding factor.
Wonder Woman is one of DCs big three and it's not exactly like she's exactly topped the charts when it comes to popularity.
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Show of hands: Who here was drawn to a title primarily because an "A-lister" was featured?
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[QUOTE=Vanguard;6211376]It tore you up inside to put Black Panther in B tier. Your snide “barely” comment makes it obvious. And you took a swing at the movie. Opinions are like a$$holes though.[/QUOTE]
No. It tore me up inside to put Black Panther next to Daredevil and Punisher. Are you seriously going to tell me that character – prior to the movie – was ANYWHERE CLOSE to the comic book / character popularity of a Daredevil and a Punisher? The B tier is still a massively popular tier for Marvel characters, but these characters still can't compete with Spider-Man, the X-Men and others, who are in S and A. Prior to the movie I would have had Black Panther in C or D.
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DC has 4 A lister heroes: Superman, Batman, Robin, and Wonder Woman.
Pre MCU Marvel had 2: Hulk and Spider-Man. Post MCU you can add Iron Man, maybe Captain America. I know lots of normies that can't name any X-Men or members of the Fantastic Four, most Avengers. I know plenty of people who don't watch superhero movies at all.
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[QUOTE=JudicatorPrime;6212026]Show of hands: Who here was drawn to a title primarily because an "A-lister" was featured?[/QUOTE]
Those guys being in it will make it WAY less likely I would bother to watch.
[QUOTE]I know lots of normies that can't name any X-Men or members of the Fantastic Four, most Avengers.[/QUOTE]
And I know plenty of kids who can and haven't watched any of the movies.
Along with some who can name all of the Fantastic Four way more than they can any X-Men not named Logan or Storm.
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[QUOTE=krazijoe;6204725]Marvel A-Listers...
Spider-Man
Xmen together
Wolverine
Deadpool
Avengers together
Hulk
Capt America
Iron Man
The Miz.[/QUOTE]
I’ll give you The Miz, but the others are a bit borderline.