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[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;2158545]I agree with you. Though Black Widow is clearly more popular than Captain Marvel and looks deserving to take the title as Marvel's #1 Female, but Black Widow doesn't look like a superhero. [/QUOTE]
Black Widow is more popular with the general audience because the general audience doesn't know Carol exists.
As for the very small comicbook fandom, none of the very many Captain Marvels, Black Widow, or Storm are popular enough to sell a book, except for Carol Danvers.
[QUOTE]She's just a skilled CIA agent who helps people.
Black Widow is a hero but not a superhero.[/QUOTE]That's like saying Iron Man is just an inventor who helps people but not a superhero
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[QUOTE=Carabas;2158565]Black Widow is more popular with the general audience because the general audience doesn't know Carol exists.
As for the very small comicbook fandom, none of the very many Captain Marvels, Black Widow, or Storm are popular enough to sell a book, except for Carol Danvers.
That's like saying Iron Man is just an inventor who helps people but not a superhero[/QUOTE]
But his invention makes him fly and superstrong so he can be easily described as a superhero.
I'[m too lazy to check but I think Black Widow's first ongoing solo was selling better than Captain Marvel's.
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[QUOTE=dreyga2000;2158548]Angela's publication history at Marvel is almost non-existent. Black Widow, Storm, Captain Marvel, She-Hulk etc. have been mainstays in the marvel universe since the seventies. In what world does Angela suddenly outrank all these people? Plus Marvel doesn't completely own the character so pushing her over a property that have full control over makes no sense.
As for Captain Marvel being Marvel's flagship superheroes.[B]I'm pretty sure (double-check me on this) Carol was the female superhero at marvel to have a solo title. [/B]Unlike many other female superheroes that are off-shoots of there male counterparts ( making it difficult to market them as a standalone franchise) , Carol's male counter part as been dead and gone for over 30 years.
She has more solo issues published than another other marvel heroine aside from She-Hulk and Spider-Girl (again both difficult to franchise).
And there the elephant in the room she is getting her own movie. That's kinda of a big deal. Did you expect marvel not to give her push given this fact???
Honestly, I'm surprised that there is much debate on this aside from Black Widow who is there that is even a viable option???[/QUOTE]
The first female superhero to get a solo at Marvel was the Cat ( quickly was morphed into Tigra). Shanna and Red Sonja also had titles before Carol.
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Incidentally what does being the flagship superherorine and actually entail???
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[QUOTE=dreyga2000;2158618]Incidentally what does being the flagship superherorine and actually entail???[/QUOTE]
I would would say a good deal real world popularity and the company using said character as their face or representative.
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[QUOTE=JKtheMac;2155532]This America Chavez design by Mckelvie illustrates my point. You can get away with revealing if it fits the character and it is done in with style.
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I acknowledge that this approach may not work for WW and I think Mckelvie's own attempts to design her costume are not great.[/QUOTE]
The thing is Carol always had a revealing costume and it's arguable her popularity went down after drastic changes to costume and personality.
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[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;2158571]But his invention makes him fly and superstrong so he can be easily described as a superhero.
I'[m too lazy to check but I think Black Widow's first ongoing solo was selling better than Captain Marvel's.[/QUOTE]
If you are in the Avengers and fight supervillains all the time, you're a superhero, powers of not.
Or is it just that she doesn't wear a colourful costume? Would she be a superhero if she wore one of the standard superheroine fetish costumes like Storm does?
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[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;2158656]The thing is Carol always had a revealing costume and it's arguable her popularity went down after drastic changes to costume and personality.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense. She had a number of costumes over the years and I would argue the last one was perhaps the worst. Her popularity amongst the demographic they were trying to reach exploded once they gave her a military styled costume. In other words, as soon as they matched her costume to her character she became appealing to an audience that would naturally have ignored her but now suddenly idolised her.
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[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;2158656]The thing is Carol always had a revealing costume and it's arguable her popularity went down after drastic changes to costume and personality.[/QUOTE]
I dunno. She wasn't popular to begin with. If she's not selling now, I kinda doubt it's because of the suit.
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Is Carol supposed to be the marvel equivalent of Wonder Woman?
To be honest over at DC Harley sells better, by a massive margin and over at Marvel the spider ladies all kick Carol's numbers.
Both have countless arguments about costume and based how much skin is exposed, and both are considered boring or lacking edge.
So yeah Carol is the perfect person to fulfil the wonder woman role at Marvel.
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[QUOTE=JKtheMac;2158674]Nonsense. She had a number of costumes over the years and I would argue the last one was perhaps the worst. Her popularity amongst the demographic they were trying to reach exploded once they gave her a military styled costume. In other words, as soon as they matched her costume to her character she became appealing to an audience that would naturally have ignored her but now suddenly idolised her.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm. Can you post these many non revealing costumes Carol has had? And she's currently being outsold by chars who are brand new so.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2158675]I dunno. She wasn't popular to begin with. If she's not selling now, I kinda doubt it's because of the suit.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say she wasnt popular but the character is different.
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[QUOTE=lucius121;2158691]Is Carol supposed to be the marvel equivalent of Wonder Woman?
To be honest over at DC Harley sells better, by a massive margin and over at Marvel the spider ladies all kick Carol's numbers.
Both have countless arguments about costume and based how much skin is exposed, and both are considered boring or lacking edge.
So yeah Carol is the perfect person to fulfil the wonder woman role at Marvel.[/QUOTE]
That all kind of depends what you mean by fulfil a role. I would argue most DC / Marvel character comparisons are totally pointless. The lines are so different and what the characters represent is not comparable.
If you are suggesting Captain Marvel, is supposed to be an aspirant hero to young women then yes. The history of Captain Marvel from the Golden Age when Billy Batson Cub reporter was Captain Marvel he was designed as an aspirant superhero. Indeed at one point he was arguably more popular than Superman in that role. Lots of water under the bridge has left us with Carol taking up a mantle that had fallen by the wayside in Marvel, but a mantle that they have the legal rights to through a whole load of legal machination.
So how do they reinvigorate that title? They made Ms. Marvel step up to the plate and logically they give her a uniform that reflects the Rick Jones costume as it was in the seventies and onwards. They were also very keen to make the costume reflect Danvers' military background. If there is one area of costume design that demands to be practical it is for the military.
Making a character an aspirant figure (which she literally was to Kit in the rebooted story) also demands a certain amount of responsibility. She was being written by a writer that knew what it was like to grow up surrounded by military role-models and the character needed to reflect that.
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Costume wise you can tell when an artist gets the look of Captain Marvel by how they incorporate the zip. That element is a touchstone to her professional military look.
If the line of her zip is clearly against her sternum and between her boobs then the artist has not only made a mistake over the type of fabric the costume is made of, they have presented Carol in a way that the character herself has gone out of her way to avoid. Carol as Captain Marvel wants to project a strong and serious image. She wants to be trusted as someone that has received military training and understands responsibility. She does not want to be seen as a Lycra wearing vigilante. This is not all about sexiness vs prudishness, it is about image.
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[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;2158711]Hmmm. Can you post these many non revealing costumes Carol has had? And she's currently being outsold by chars who are brand new so.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say many of them were not revealing, but an example that was not was her Binary Costume. It was of course a lycra style costume but that depended on who was drawing it, which can be said of any female hero right up to today.
Binary:
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Even the classic seventies red costume switched from having a belly cut-away to filling in that area before it switched to the costume that hung around until the 21st century. (With a temporary return to the red suit around Dark Reign when the suits battled each other.).
Cut away costume:
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Covered belly:
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If you then go back and look at the male costume of Rick Jones and the last costume of Carol you can see where the key references are for the new costume as combination of these influences.
