-
[QUOTE=nx01a;5646714]Picard was an angry old man disillusioned with and separated from what gave his life meaning. 7 was betrayed by the first person she truly loved, leading to the torture porn disfiguring of her 'son' and her being forced to mercy kill him. Deanna and Riker lost a son after a long and horrible illness. The Romulans were disenfranchised refugees. Mars was wiped clean of life by the synths. Jurati murdered her former lover then tried to kill herself. Rafi was a drug-addicted conspiracy theorist living in a trailer, rejected by her son. Rios was a drunk, emotionally scarred loner disillusioned with Starfleet. The treatment of the XBs by the Romulans...
I'm sure I'm missing things but there was little positive in s1 for me. I genuinely hope it improves in s2.[/QUOTE]
Those are all heavy aspects of the series and I wasn't a fan of all of them. But I guess it didn't seem as hopeless as the whole Federation falling apart
-
[QUOTE=nx01a;5646714]Picard was an angry old man disillusioned with and separated from what gave his life meaning. 7 was betrayed by the first person she truly loved, leading to the torture porn disfiguring of her 'son' and her being forced to mercy kill him. Deanna and Riker lost a son after a long and horrible illness. The Romulans were disenfranchised refugees. Mars was wiped clean of life by the synths. Jurati murdered her former lover then tried to kill herself. Rafi was a drug-addicted conspiracy theorist living in a trailer, rejected by her son. Rios was a drunk, emotionally scarred loner disillusioned with Starfleet. The treatment of the XBs by the Romulans...
I'm sure I'm missing things but there was little positive in s1 for me. I genuinely hope it improves in s2.[/QUOTE]
You missed mentioning Soji's twin sister and her boyfriend getting murdered all in the first episode by Romulan assassins.:eek:
This new shows like Picard and Discovery don't know Trek is meant to be [B]optimistic[/B], while at the same time still tackling interesting social and complex themes.
-
[QUOTE=Castle;5647123]You missed mentioning Soji's twin sister and her boyfriend getting murdered all in the first episode by Romulan assassins.:eek:
This new shows like Picard and Discovery don't know Trek is meant to be [B]optimistic[/B], while at the same time still tackling interesting social and complex themes.[/QUOTE]
It sure is bloody and brutal I'll give you that. I felt like I was watching Game of Thrones in space which is not a good thing, IMO.
-
[QUOTE=nx01a;5646714]Picard was an angry old man disillusioned with and separated from what gave his life meaning. 7 was betrayed by the first person she truly loved, leading to the torture porn disfiguring of her 'son' and her being forced to mercy kill him. Deanna and Riker lost a son after a long and horrible illness. The Romulans were disenfranchised refugees. Mars was wiped clean of life by the synths. Jurati murdered her former lover then tried to kill herself. Rafi was a drug-addicted conspiracy theorist living in a trailer, rejected by her son. Rios was a drunk, emotionally scarred loner disillusioned with Starfleet. The treatment of the XBs by the Romulans...
I'm sure I'm missing things but there was little positive in s1 for me. I genuinely hope it improves in s2.[/QUOTE]
I think this is a little... unfair. YES these were bleak things, but a lot of hope and love and support came out of those events. Picard helped mend broken people, to the point they nearly all found peace by the end. That's surely very optimistic?
[QUOTE=Castle;5646735]Wonder what score he gave the Picard episode, [B]Nepenthe[/B], which for many Trek fans was the main highlight of [B]what they saw as a lukewarm Picard first season.[/B] [/QUOTE]
According to whom? ;)
-
[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;5647890]I think this is a little... unfair. YES these were bleak things, but a lot of hope and love and support came out of those events. Picard helped mend broken people, to the point they nearly all found peace by the end. That's surely very optimistic?[/QUOTE]As I mentioned in another post, maybe it felt so hopeless because the season was one long episode of hopelessness instead of self-contained episodes or arcs of hopelessness with closure at the end. I don't watch Trek to be beaten over the head with drug-using, personality disorder-riddled, broken characters trapped in horrible situations for entire seasons at an end. If I wanted that, I'd look in the mirror. ;)
It's like my reasoning with Game of Thrones or Walking Dead. How can viewers come back week after week to watch characters be emotionally and physically broken ad nauseum until they finally [mercifully] die horribly? If watching people suffer is entertainment for you, go watch something else. Star Trek shouldn't be about that, even if the surviving characters find 2 minutes of vague happiness after a season of being dragged and pain sticked through Gre'thor.
-
I've had a pet theory for awhile that some people do like to see other people suffer. It makes them feel better about their own lives if they see someone who has it far worse than they do. I might be way off base about that, but it might be a case of seeing a character go through pain and tragedy and think "My life sucks--but it's way better than[I] that[/I] guy's." And then they follow the character to see if he or she triumphs, fails, or joins a growing body count.
The original Star Trek series was something of a counter to the real-world crap going on at the time, IMO. War, race riots, the threat of nuclear annihilation. TOS didn't depict a continuation of that, but rather a future in which not only did humanity survive, it got better. It came together and went forward as one people. That's been the general "optimism" of Trek, and it's still there in every iteration of Trek, even when it sometimes takes a dark turn.
-
[QUOTE=nx01a;5648396]As I mentioned in another post, maybe it felt so hopeless because the season was one long episode of hopelessness instead of self-contained episodes or arcs of hopelessness with closure at the end. I don't watch Trek to be beaten over the head with drug-using, personality disorder-riddled, broken characters trapped in horrible situations for entire seasons at an end. [/QUOTE]
But again, I think you're being overly harsh. The episodes were full of bonding, and love and support and affection. You are just choosing not to see it. You focus on the lose of Troi's son, but don't acknowledge all the good feels those characters have for one another, for being together, and for coming through it stronger. Moments of sadness and trouble does not = never-ending despair.
[QUOTE=Cel;5648641]I've had a pet theory for awhile that some people do like to see other people suffer. It makes them feel better about their own lives if they see someone who has it far worse than they do. I might be way off base about that, but it might be a case of seeing a character go through pain and tragedy and think "My life sucks--but it's way better than[I] that[/I] guy's." And then they follow the character to see if he or she triumphs, fails, or joins a growing body count.[/QUOTE]
From a narrative point of view, for those who care about that, you need to over-come adversity for the victory to possess meaning. Achieving success when it was little to no burden is just bad writing. Even characters in Studio Ghibli have to hit rock bottom, to make the climb back up all the sweeter. :)
-
[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;5649263]But again, I think you're being overly harsh. The episodes were full of bonding, and love and support and affection. You are just choosing not to see it. You focus on the lose of Troi's son, but don't acknowledge all the good feels those characters have for one another, for being together, and for coming through it stronger. Moments of sadness and trouble does not = never-ending despair.[/QUOTE]I consider killing children for plot development even lower than fridging women. And while I think you're being far too optimistic about Picard s1 and the IMHO vastly unnecessary traumas its characters were subjected to, I am at least glad you found enjoyment in it even though I for the most part didn't.
-
Finding pleasure in another's pain is called schadenfreude.
It is not a theory but a real thing, FWIW.
-
[QUOTE=BeastieRunner;5650159]Finding pleasure in another's pain is called schadenfreude.
It is not a theory but a real thing, FWIW.[/QUOTE]
Intersting. And apparently it has an English equivalent, "[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CryK1qhOxhk"]epicaricacy[/URL]".
-
[QUOTE=Nate Grey;5650166]Intersting. And apparently it has an English equivalent, "[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CryK1qhOxhk"]epicaricacy[/URL]".[/QUOTE]
Tbf, and I guess that's the idiosyncrasies of the English language, but as a native English speaker, I've heard schadenfreude used far more often than epicaricacy.
-
[QUOTE=Cyke;5650203]Tbf, and I guess that's the idiosyncrasies of the English language, but as a native English speaker, I've heard schadenfreude used far more often than epicaricacy.[/QUOTE]
I'm a native English speaker and I didn't know either existed before today. :p But yeah, while both are rare, schadenfreude is...less rare?
But still, as Spock would say, "Fascinating."
-
[QUOTE=nx01a;5649585]I consider killing children for plot development even lower than fridging women. [/QUOTE]
Oh come on, telling a story about a child who died (a character that has never existed before that story) is absolutely NOT the same thing as #womeninrefridgerators. COME ON! That's just... it's pretty ridiculous. I 100% understand that clearly children can be a trigger for some people, and I 100% respect your right to be upset. But 'killing' a fictional child that never existed till that moment is not in the same league as killing an established female character just to give the man something to be sad about.
[QUOTE=nx01a;5649585]And while I think you're being far too optimistic about Picard s1 and the IMHO vastly unnecessary traumas its characters were subjected to, I am at least glad you found enjoyment in it even though I for the most part didn't.[/QUOTE]
Maybe there's a happy middle ground, between me being too optimistic, and you being too pessimistic, that we both need to find. :)
[QUOTE=BeastieRunner;5650159]Finding pleasure in another's pain is called schadenfreude.[/QUOTE]
The fact you don't all know every single word to every single song in Avenue Q leaves me SHOOKETH!!! :confused:
-
[QUOTE=Cyke;5650203]Tbf, and I guess that's the idiosyncrasies of the English language, but as a native English speaker, I've heard schadenfreude used far more often than epicaricacy.[/QUOTE]
The German word appears to have a more specific definition than the English one, too.
It is oddly more satisfying to say, as well. Good figure .. ;)
[QUOTE=Nate Grey;5650214]I'm a native English speaker and I didn't know either existed before today. But yeah, while both are rare, schadenfreude is...less rare?
But still, as Spock would say, "Fascinating."[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the new word, BTW. :)
[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;5650337]
The fact you don't all know every single word to every single song in Avenue Q leaves me SHOOKETH!!![/QUOTE]
I love Avenue Q. :)
-
[QUOTE=nx01a;5648396]As I mentioned in another post, maybe it felt so hopeless because the season was one long episode of hopelessness instead of self-contained episodes or arcs of hopelessness with closure at the end. I don't watch Trek to be beaten over the head with drug-using, personality disorder-riddled, broken characters trapped in horrible situations for entire seasons at an end. If I wanted that, I'd look in the mirror. ;)
It's like my reasoning with Game of Thrones or Walking Dead. How can viewers come back week after week to watch characters be emotionally and physically broken ad nauseum until they finally [mercifully] die horribly? If watching people suffer is entertainment for you, go watch something else. Star Trek shouldn't be about that, even if the surviving characters find 2 minutes of vague happiness after a season of being dragged and pain sticked through Gre'thor.[/QUOTE]
TWD's comic actually has a happy ending (no cures or anything but civilization is getting back on it's feet and the Walker threat is mostly contained), although at one point Kirkman wanted to end it a bit earlier with a downer one. It's unclear whether the TV series will follow, although there are spin-offs planned.