The Doctor at his best tries to fix Rick and Morty

Personally the episode were Rick and Morty jump to another dimension after the love potion Rick made morty help screw up the whole planet ruined the show for me, to me Rick should have known better and should have tried fix his home world instead of abandoning it. I can't get into the show as much, I feel terrible for Summer at the end of it too. It's too messed up seeing him act like the other versions of his family he found are the same people as the originals, like nothing happned-- they're not the same people and that's the end of it.

The Doctor is sent back in time to before Rick made the love potion by me and is tasked with doing these things: Passing judgement on Rick for abandoning his home world and family except Morty after using a machine I gave him to show Rick what he did and what happened as a result, he can kill him in this situation, but only after he gets answers out of him about what's going on in his head about the whole matter and why he did it. Fixing Jerry's life. Fixing morty's life. And fixing summers life.

[QUOTE=Kirika;3918828]Personally the episode were Rick and Morty jump to another dimension after the love potion Rick made morty help screw up the whole planet ruined the show for me, to me Rick should have known better and should have tried fix his home world instead of abandoning it. I can't get into the show as much, I feel terrible for Summer at the end of it too. It's too messed up seeing him act like the other versions of his family he found are the same people as the originals, like nothing happned-- they're not the same people and that's the end of it.

The Doctor is sent back in time to before Rick made the love potion by me and is tasked with doing these things: Passing judgement on Rick for abandoning his home world and family except Morty after using a machine I gave him to show Rick what he did and what happened as a result, he can kill him in this situation, but only after he gets answers out of him about what's going on in his head about the whole matter and why he did it. Fixing Jerry's life. Fixing morty's life. And fixing summers life.[/QUOTE]

A scenario like this somewhat ignores the point/archetype of the character. Someone like the Doctor showing up to "fix" Rick is more likely to have the opposite effect. You would need Rick and the Doctor to go on some harrowing death-defying deeply scarring adventure together independent of this, have the Doctor really worm his way into Rick's heart as a comrade-in-arms, for Rick to give his moralizing any real thought, and even then, it would be a tenuous, fragile thing that Rick might feel bad about for five minutes, then maybe he'd try to make some kind of cure for the love potion, but if it didn't work, he'd just as easily abandon it, and the whole thing could put the newfound friendship on ice if the Doctor keeps pushing it.

Rick already knows what he did and all the moral implications thereof and he doesn't care. Rick, despite having some degree of reluctant compassion for the people in his life, is all too willing to churn and burn when push comes to shove. Some uptight busy body coming in to **** with him and nag him is just going to make him annoyed.

You totally miss the point of the show then.

It throws the Sr Who hero trope in its face as Rick, from al his experiences and discover stuff does not give a **** likebwe do anymore. The only thing that is a constant is there is a grandpa Rick, and there is his grandson Morty.

Hell it is all implied Evil Morty is basically our Ricks real grandson.

Rick Sanchez almost feels like something Ayn Rand might have come up with if she was forced to write a Futurama episode against her will.

Rick semi-tolerates Morty because he can still control him. if he can't control the Doctor he'll take off and do his own thing. Rick is only interested in living in a universe where he feels like he can do anything he wants to anybody and get away with it - and always end up looking right at the end.

the whole point of "Rick and Morty", as others have said, is that Rick doesn't really care. not only that - he's also an author's pet that is more or less to be catered and pandered to at every possible level. he's also rewarded for his vices and punished for his virtues. look at how angry some fans got when a therapist caught Rick flat-footed and he didn't have a response or simply murder her on the spot. it kinda shows what the true nature of the character is.

"Rick and Morty" is an interesting show - but Rick is a now a fundamentally static character. they could have easily ended the whole show at the end of season 2 and left Rick at a point where he -finally- did something that wasn't completely selfish. but the problem with that is that he had an actual character arc - and there wasn't really anything left to do with him.

but they chose to keep going. Rick got retconned into planning an attack and an escape and is now supposedly free from any major obstacles. they've already lampshaded that they don't really plan to do anything with Evil Morty. once those two problems got taken care of Rick can always be justified at the end of the each episode. heck, they even put Beth and Jerry back together - so they reversed the only major decision that had a lasting impact on the narrative.

the nature of the universe and the type of adventures they have are basically hitting the reset button at the start of every episode. the point isn't how these characters learn and grow - it's what sort of bizarre and outrageous stuff can we throw at them and the audience every episode.

To be honest it kinda sounds like the show operates on a gross oversimplification of nihilism.

Rick and Morty is basically a dumbed-down Venture Bros.

[QUOTE=wjowski;3919378]Rick and Morty is basically a dumbed-down Venture Bros.[/QUOTE]

Ding ding. This is full of win and the truth.

Nihilism is a major theme, but there [I]is[/I] character depth to the show, it's not entirely just a "nothing matters, everything sucks, do whatever you want, lol" shitfest. Yes, that's basically Rick's surface mantra, but there's more going on with him than just that.

The degree to which the depth is presented does fluctuate per episode, and it's easy to perceive the show as being shallower than it is, what with all the memes and the crummier side of the fandom. At the same time, it can be easy to overstate the depth, as well. It can be really goddamned obnoxious for people who aren't into it's particular mix of zaniness-with-pathos. Especially as the show goes on and tries to both be more over the top than ever, while at the same time appeal to a broader audience, you get some real up and down in presentation.

More on the topic: The thing is, I think some part of Rick would come to respect the Doctor, depending on the incarnation and given the sheer amount of **** the Doctor has been through. I don't think Rick would necessarily [I]like[/I] the Doctor as such, or come around to his way of thinking. He'd probably always consider him a pain in the ass. But then again, he's also been friend and ally to much more noble spirits than himself. But they have to ultimately prove themselves to be worth Rick's time and attention before he's willing to listen to them, so the Doctor isn't going to get through to him via lectures or a "this is your shitty past, don't you feel bad" slideshows. Rick listens to those he's had history with, often rough history, not people who pop up out of the blue and start moralizing at him.

like others have said, rick isn't the kind of character you fix. and knowing rick, if the doctor tried to "fix" him, rick would just screw himself up even more just to spite him. if there is some kind of massive threat involved and they team up, i can see rick respecting the doctor, version depending, and might even liking him to a degree. remember that this rick is a rebel: he hates being told what to do and he hates people standing over him, thinking they are better than him. but that's just my take on his character.

[QUOTE=Sharkerbob;3919558]Nihilism is a major theme, but there [I]is[/I] character depth to the show, it's not entirely just a "nothing matters, everything sucks, do whatever you want, lol" shitfest. Yes, that's basically Rick's surface mantra, but there's more going on with him than just that.

The degree to which the depth is presented does fluctuate per episode, and it's easy to perceive the show as being shallower than it is, what with all the memes and the crummier side of the fandom. At the same time, it can be easy to overstate the depth, as well. It can be really goddamned obnoxious for people who aren't into it's particular mix of zaniness-with-pathos. Especially as the show goes on and tries to both be more over the top than ever, while at the same time appeal to a broader audience, you get some real up and down in presentation.

More on the topic: The thing is, I think some part of Rick would come to respect the Doctor, depending on the incarnation and given the sheer amount of **** the Doctor has been through. I don't think Rick would ever [I]like[/I] the Doctor as such, or come around to his way of thinking. He'd probably always consider him a pain in the ass. But then again, he's also been friend and ally to much more noble spirits than himself. But they have to ultimately prove themselves to be worth Rick's time and attention before he's willing to listen to them, so the Doctor isn't going to get through to him via lectures or a "this is your shitty past, don't you feel bad" slideshows. Rick listens to those he's had history with, often rough history, not people who pop up out of the blue and start moralizing at him.[/QUOTE]

for me it's that damned "story circle". if you combine that appallingly formulaic method of story-telling with what amounts to a 'reset button' for every show (or even every season) I think it's going to ruin the show if they can't work past it.

[QUOTE=Sharkerbob;3919558]Nihilism is a major theme, but there [I]is[/I] character depth to the show, it's not entirely just a "nothing matters, everything sucks, do whatever you want, lol" shitfest. Yes, that's basically Rick's surface mantra, but there's more going on with him than just that.

The degree to which the depth is presented does fluctuate per episode, and it's easy to perceive the show as being shallower than it is, what with all the memes and the crummier side of the fandom. At the same time, it can be easy to overstate the depth, as well. It can be really goddamned obnoxious for people who aren't into it's particular mix of zaniness-with-pathos. Especially as the show goes on and tries to both be more over the top than ever, while at the same time appeal to a broader audience, you get some real up and down in presentation.
[/QUOTE]

sorry... off topic rant. I work with a lot of younger guys that adore this show... and are always telling me how deep, profound, and thoughtful it can sometimes be... and I'm not seeing it. I can see why they like the show... but it's not even half as 'deep' as they say it is.

the show IS shallower than what the fans are making it out to be. and while the characters are given those rare moments of "depth" it still doesn't change the fact that they're essentially static characters. sometimes they are mere place holders for an idea. look at Jerry Smith. is he a character or is he merely the R&M version of Meg on "Family Guy". that character the audience is supposed to hate because the creators of the show hold him in contempt? if he weren't voiced by Chris Parnell but was voiced by a speak-and-spell would he really be all that different?

having watched every episode of "Rick and Morty" at least once, and about half of it at least twice... it's a well-made show that's creative and entertaining. but it's crippled by exceedingly formulaic writing and a static approach to characters that I think will ultimately cause it to implode.

Rick isn't even a scientist in any practical definition of that word - he's just a techno-wizard that exists in a comedic TV franchise. he's a scientist in the sense that Reed Richards or Doctor Doom are scientists.

and a huge part of the R&M fandom I've seen online seems to think that they're intellectuals for simply watching the show! worse yet, these people actually identify with Rick Sanchez because they have this preposterous idea that because he's the main character that he's somehow admirable and worthy of emulation. at LEAST with "Family Guy" most people can figure out that they shouldn't WANT to be like Peter Griffin.

[QUOTE=Totoro Man;3919594]for me it's that damned "story circle". if you combine that appallingly formulaic method of story-telling with what amounts to a 'reset button' for every show (or even every season) I think it's going to ruin the show if they can't work past it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Totoro Man;3919666]sorry... off topic rant. I work with a lot of younger guys that adore this show... and are always telling me how deep, profound, and thoughtful it can sometimes be... and I'm not seeing it. I can see why they like the show... but it's not even half as 'deep' as they say it is.

the show IS shallower than what the fans are making it out to be. and while the characters are given those rare moments of "depth" it still doesn't change the fact that they're essentially static characters. sometimes they are mere place holders for an idea. look at Jerry Smith. is he a character or is he merely the R&M version of Meg on "Family Guy". that character the audience is supposed to hate because the creators of the show hold him in contempt? if he weren't voiced by Chris Parnell but was voiced by a speak-and-spell would he really be all that different?

having watched every episode of "Rick and Morty" at least once, and about half of it at least twice... it's a well-made show that's creative and entertaining. but it's crippled by exceedingly formulaic writing and a static approach to characters that I think will ultimately cause it to implode.

Rick isn't even a scientist in any practical definition of that word - he's just a techno-wizard that exists in a comedic TV franchise. he's a scientist in the sense that Reed Richards or Doctor Doom are scientists.

and a huge part of the R&M fandom I've seen online seems to think that they're intellectuals for simply watching the show! worse yet, these people actually identify with Rick Sanchez because they have this preposterous idea that because he's the main character that he's somehow admirable and worthy of emulation. at LEAST with "Family Guy" most people can figure out that they shouldn't WANT to be like Peter Griffin.[/QUOTE]

That's the problem with trying to combine "high concept" with "sitcom" formula, I guess. You can try to be all smart and deep with the storytelling, but you still end up back to the Status Quo. The characters then just end up becoming Flanderized (for lack of a better word), because they can never really move past their starter concept, and the archetype starts become self-parody after a while. Just because the show even self-aware jokes about it does not make it less of an issue.

As to the "vapid intellect" aspect of the fandom, I feel this is also a problem with shows that base themselves on pretensions to intelligence, or more accurately, people looking to use such shows to validate their sense of self worth. Not to be disparaging, but being all "yeah, boi, science 'n' ****!" is really trendy right now, and it's easy for people looking for that shallow hit of pseudo-intellect to latch onto a show like Rick and Morty and puff their chest about it. Which is great for meme marketing, but does not endear the show to other people.

It's not unlike the negative side of the MLP fandom, which didn't really help its own cause. Yeah, it is legitimately fantastic that a show meant for young girls became this break-out general audiences hit show that many more demographics could enjoy. Being a self-righteous turd about it was not the best way to convince the haters and the disinterested to join the Brony community.

I mean, look, stories are just about the only thing I think are worthwhile in this world, but I don't religiously bolt my self-identity to the shows I watch. I just wish people wouldn't get so wrapped up in fiction they like that it then becomes this crusade or this identity crutch.

But I guess people gotta form teams and fight about something. That's what the internet's for these days.

The premise of the OP here is a bit simplistic to be honest. It's not really possible to "fix" someone's life to the satisfaction of everyone else.

Jerry is such a broken shell of a man he can only conceive of being happy with Beth. Beth is so dependant on her relationships because of her shitty upbringing she ties herself to Rick and Jerry even though both make her miserable and drive her to alcoholism. Summer and Morty both bear the burden of their family's baggage.

It's not something you can just finger click and fix. The Doctor would need to break up Jerry and Beth, move them on in their own lives without the kids so that they actually get past the guilt of having left each other and the family, get the children into a safe environment with some caregivers who they (for some reason) don't utterly resent and are given a chance to grow outside of the prison of their families and, again, somehow stop them from missing their biological family or Rick.

And then there's Rick...

Rick is a clinically depressed, high functioning addict who suffers from narcissism, suicidal tendencies and exhibits sociopathic traits. He views emotion as weakness, sees connections as a toxic element of his own self identity. He also resists therapy and would rather literally die than fix himself.

Doctor is good but you can't fix people who don't want to be fixed.

Rick and Morty as a show is fine. It's nowhere as deep as some people would have you believe and season 3 was just terrible in terms of how it damaged the structure of the show.

Still disagree.

The Doctor either knocks sense in to Rick or he's dead, afterwords he deals with Ricks family.

[QUOTE=Kirika;3922400]Still disagree.

The Doctor either knocks sense in to Rick or he's dead, afterwords he deals with Ricks family.[/QUOTE]

I mean, if you like. But I don't think it's possible. The Doctor isn't going to mind control the entire Smith family, break them up across different eras and realities and kill Rick because that's a messed up thing to do.

Most versions of the Doctor have a moral code that would prevent that. Violation of someone's ability to choose isn't what the Doctor is about.

I could see him taking the kids on an journey but they've both been through so much stuff with Rick already, I don't think it would have any real transformative effect.

And, lest we forget, the Doctor has messed up people badly as well through his own actions so isn't exactly a safe bet.

Emotional baggage and psychological problems aren't things that can just be solved by "knocking sense into" a person.