Oh' dear, words fail me. Just read.
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Oh' dear, words fail me. Just read.
[QUOTE=Denirac;4379790]You werent just wrong about Nemesis, You were wrong about Wally[/QUOTE]
No, no, on the contrary. I was wrong about [I]both[/I]. ;)
[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;4379801]No, no, on the contrary. I was wrong about [I]both[/I]. ;)[/QUOTE]
I warned you this would happen :(
[QUOTE=Denirac;4379807]I warned you this would happen :([/QUOTE]
Yes, I am aware. Let the parade of "I told you so's" commence!
[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;4379810]Yes, I am aware. Let the parade of "I told you so's" commence![/QUOTE]
Honestly I read this last night but its still hanging over me and keeping me from enjoying my other comics including the First Issue of Boom’s Angel series, I genuinely hoped you were right, instead we got Wally getting a Hank Pym treatment
I said this before in one of the HiC threads, but now that we have all the issues, this wasn't a friggin' murder mystery. I still had hopes for a twist in #9, but DC marketing* treated this like mystery we should want to follow along with. There are still (non-Wally) parts of this story I liked, but I feel misled about why I was reading it and that really frustrates me. Identity Crisis, probably the most analogous story to HiC, played fair with the mystery at least - they presented an investigation, explained why various heroes were going down specific avenues, etc. Sure, the identity of the killer was ridiculous, but at least the story met the requirements of being a mystery.
The Wally fans (I like Wally fine and have read a ton of him, but I'm not a die hard) have done a perfectly good job of explaining how his part of the story is ridiculous, so I'm just going to consider that a given. My only other comment is that we have to remove Bruce's title as World's Greatest Detective. He's been really bad at being a detective for 10 years now (Eternal, Court of Owls, Metal, HiC, Bane, League of Shadows all contain plots in which Bruce didn't really tease out the threads of what was happening until it was too late)
*Do they give awards for marketing comics in a way that is antithetical to the story being told? Between the BatCat wedding, this, and some of the oldies (Countdown to FC, FC) really make you wonder where the information breakdown occurs
[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;4379750]So....yup. I was wrong about Nemesis alright.
Enjoy your gloating. You've earned it. ;)[/QUOTE]
I'll keep mine short. I knew it!
But this doesn't feel like a win, it's still a extremely depressing and disappointing story that ruins a lot of characters I love.
So, I don't have any favourite characters and any of that, so wow, that turned out amazing and honestly following Rebirth I felt Wally was used in a way to again really make the DC characters feel emotional. Just wanted to get that out of the way.
I also don't care to get all semantics about "murder mystery," for me this whole story was well constructed with layers being peeled back and revealing things that make going back and reading again be seen in a new light. For example, while I was admittedly a little peeved about the sheer amount of diary room panels, mostly because I am not all that much of a fan of King's dialogue, but then that one panel (Captain Atom) that puts it all in perspective and I look back and think, well played. Even though I could not think of a way Wally was going to escape this without some weird everyone back from the dead shenanigans, and even though I caught on to how other books avoided referring to Wally as dead and we all know the rumors, something as simple as the way they make it all play out with Booster's plan still caught me off guard. This final twist was worth the wait.
In short, this murder mystery event delivered.
How and in what world could anyone claim Gia story was well constructed? Did you enjoy the out of character behavior? Maybe the puddler subplot that meant nothing and was never addressed? How about how Sanctuary continues on without addressing the murders? The convoluted and poorly used time travel aspect? The fact that with the “clues” presented, there was no way to come up with the answer? What about the message that getting help for mental health leads to death and destruction? This series failed on every conceivable level. This was pure and unadulterated bullshit.
[QUOTE=Talon1load;4380289]How and in what world could anyone claim Gia story was well constructed? Did you enjoy the out of character behavior? Maybe the puddler subplot that meant nothing and was never addressed? How about how Sanctuary continues on without addressing the murders? The convoluted and poorly used time travel aspect? The fact that with the “clues” presented, there was no way to come up with the answer? What about the message that getting help for mental health leads to death and destruction? This series failed on every conceivable level. This was pure and unadulterated bullshit.[/QUOTE]
This was never a game where you had a chance to win by guessing and now can claim it was rigged. No one promised you should figure out the ending before you read it.
The puddlers was addressed, Wally was speaking for those who needed help and lost their lives in order to get the message out there so more would be able to find help. That is all there was, it was barely a plot point.
The time travel was fine. Nothing convoluted about it, in fact it is almost as simple as it gets as far as paradoxical time travel.
What about Sanctuary continuing on do you need explained? What part of rebuilding it or deciding to keep it going did you need actual pages devoted to in order to understand?
And as far as characterization, I mentioned I am not a fan of King's dialogue, and I don't have any favourite characters here. Whether a few are OOC or not is relevant to how I feel about the core of the story. The plot, the twist, the reveal. I get it if you think your fave was done dirty, go ahead and vent, but keep that separate from the actual plot and the intricacies of how everything unfolded.
[QUOTE=Dred;4378882]Man you showed up here just to step on toes.[/QUOTE]I think you have that backwards. I just didn't sit still for it this time. Peace, brother.
[url]https://crisisonearthprime.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/heroes_in_crisis_counselor.jpg[/url]
"Think you can figure out the mystery before even the Dark Knight Detective? Start uncovering the clues right here"
[QUOTE=bob/.schoonover;4380466][url]https://crisisonearthprime.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/heroes_in_crisis_counselor.jpg[/url]
"Think you can figure out the mystery before even the Dark Knight Detective? Start uncovering the clues right here"[/QUOTE]
And? You just ignored the other 7 paragraphs, including the 2 where King actually says what the book is about. I don't know why you are fixated on some comment that seems like the kind of thing you would see in a children's promo.
One of the problems is that things were leaked, I think a lot of people went into this already fearful of those rumors, and because of those rumors people were more focused on how a certain character was portrayed and looking for reasons it would not be true.
You posted this:
[QUOTE=cranger;4380347]This was never a game where you had a chance to win by guessing and now can claim it was rigged. No one promised you should figure out the ending before you read it.
[/QUOTE]
All of the press leading up to HiC (e.g. here: [url]https://www.inverse.com/article/49980-dc-heroes-in-crisis-why-tom-king-is-making-heroes-talk-interview[/url] ) billed the story as a murder mystery.
Oh, here's DC addressing the mystery on their website:
[url]https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/11/02/heroes-in-crisis-mysteries-and-metallurgy[/url]
So, yes, someone promised we might be able to figure it out before it ended. The entire premise of this specific thread was to see if people could figure it out before it ended. I'm entirely confident that your above quote is wrong. It may not have been Tom King that promised it, and DC marketing has a well-earned reputation for not understanding what the books they're marketing are about, but your quote above is ahistorical. That's all. You'll go ahead and note in my previous post (which I assume you read since I'm apparently fixated on the murder mystery in the murder mystery thread) that I blamed DC marketing for mishandling this - I wasn't being critical of the story (although I'm happy to do that, too).
And that's fine, whatever. It wasn't a murder mystery and King clearly didn't intend it to be one. Okay. But pretending that it's unfair to criticize the story for not being something many expected it to be based on marketing push sure seems . . . off.
[QUOTE=cranger;4380490]And? You just ignored the other 7 paragraphs, including the 2 where King actually says what the book is about. I don't know why you are fixated on some comment that seems like the kind of thing you would see in a children's promo.
One of the problems is that things were leaked, I think a lot of people went into this already fearful of those rumors, and because of those rumors people were more focused on how a certain character was portrayed and looking for reasons it would not be true.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;4379801]No, no, on the contrary. I was wrong about [I]both[/I]. ;)[/QUOTE]
You see, that's not really a good thing.
(The reason I'm such a pain in the ass is that I'm right more often than not. Don't blame me, blame reality. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)