Rumblers League Week 1: Jcogginsa v The MunchKING

[B]Venue:[/B] [URL="https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?115837-Rumblers-League-(Live-Action-Edition)-The-Arenas&p=3901669&viewfull=1#post3901669"]Reign of Fire London[/URL]

- We can discuss the match for a week.
- Each person participating in the match can post a maximum of eight times each in that time.
- Remember to give people a chance to post links and arguments etc.
- Poll threads posted next week.

[B][URL="https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?114929-Rumblers-League-(Live-Action-Edition)-TEAM-PROFILES-THREAD&p=3850850&viewfull=1#post3850850"]JCOGGINSA[/URL] v [URL="https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?114929-Rumblers-League-(Live-Action-Edition)-TEAM-PROFILES-THREAD&p=3848007&viewfull=1#post3848007"]THE MUNCHKING[/URL][/B]

[B][U]JCOGGINSA'S STRATEGY[/U][/B]

The opening Volley of my assault will come from Daphne Millbrok. Using her Super Speed, her job is to speed around London and use Joey Gutierrez' Inhuman power to melt any bits of Metal nearby, then stab them with the Kungai Demon's Tak Horn. If the Tak horn cannot pierce the enemy, then she will move on immediately after using the Melting power. Because the Tak Horn has killed a Demon, it should work on the Undertaker and Dracula. Vader will not be targeted, as he is on board the Xillian Ship

If the Opening shot works as planned, then the 18 Venoms, Dracula and the Undertaker should be dead at the bell, as well as the Undertaker. Additionally, the following Items would be destroyed/Rendered inoperable by the opening assault: The MITRE Headset, the Muppet Copier, The Gem of Amara, the Power Sucking Athame, Both of Magneto's Telepathy blocking Helmets, the Invisibility Ray, and possibly the Sentinel and Star Sword.

At the same time that Daphne begins her attack, Electro will inhabit Stormbreaker and attack the Xillian's ship, hoping to disable it before it can let lose any Kaiju. Due to the sizes of the Kaiju, it's most likely that they are not kept stored in physical form on the ship, so destroying it is not guaranteed to result in their release. Josuke Higashikata will use Serpentara to aid in the attack, and will use his stand to replenish the ship's batteries should they run out.

If the Kaiju are released before the Ship can be destroyed, then Electro will use the Bifrost function to bring the Doctor about the ship (Away from Vader), so that the Doctor can Sabotage it and hopefully free the Kaiju from their mind control.

Again at the start, Apocalypse will launch a telepathic assault on the opposing team, aiming to make Shep Ramsey drop the Star Sword. If this works, Shep will be killed by the Tak Horn. His subsequent targets will be G-Girl (Assuming that Magneto's Helmet is melted) and the MUTO. If he can gain control of Both, he shall send them to attack their ground allies. Zedd, if he survives, will be their primary target.

Voldemort, Ares, and The Hulk are to stay and guard Apocalypse. If their initial plans go awry, Voldemort will use his Apparition to bring the Hulk and his singularity grenade to the problem.

Godzilla will act in reaction to the opposing forces and take attacks of opportunity as they arise. He will also fight any released Kaiju, as well as the MUTO if it is not successfully controlled

If All goes to plan, then the forces not on board the Xillian ship should be quickly defeated, at which point Daphne, Ares, Apocalypse, Hulk, Voldemort, and Electro will group together and BiFrost aboard the ship to kill Vader. If the Hulk still has his Singularity grenade, he will not bring it with him

Daphne will use her speed to get close and melt the components of Vader's suit, while Voldemort casts Oblivio to try and take away Vader's memories. Electro and Ares will then fire a massive volley of lightning at Vader. Apocalypse launches a psychic assault to district Vader during the Lightning Volley, and if Vader is still alive, Hulk smashes

[B][U]THE MUNCHKING'S STRATEGY[/U][/B]

Nominis Requiratur (Jcogginsa)
Apocalypse (X-Men Movies) 9:
- Ghost Rider Transformation (MCU) 5:
Godzilla (Final Wars) 10

Doctor, The (Whoniverse, Tennant) 4
- Sonic Screwdriver (Whoniverse) 5
- Hulkbuster Armour (MCU) 8

Ares (DCEU) 8
- Kryptonite Gas Grenade (DCEU) 3

Electro (The Amazing Spider-Man 2) 7
- Stormbreaker (MCU) 9

Hulk (MCU) 8
- Dark Elf Singularity Grenade (MCU) 5

Voldemort (Harry Potter Movies) 6
- Radioactive Spider Bite (The Amazing Spider-Man Movies) 5
- Lethe's Bramble (Buffyverse) 2

Daphne Millbrook (Heroes) 7:
- Terrigenesis upgrade, Joey Gutierrez (MCU) 4
- Kungai Demon's Tak Horn (Buffyverse) 2

Josuke Higashikata (Jojo Movie) 3
- Serpentera (MMPR) 10

vs.

[CENTER][SIZE=6]Wrecker of Days![/SIZE][/CENTER]


[SIZE=4]Have You seen my New TIE?: [/SIZE]
Darth Vader (Star Wars) 5
-- Xilien Mothership w/ Monsters (Godzilla: Final Wars) 10

[SIZE=4]Better Zedd than Dead:[/SIZE]
Lord Zedd (MMPR) 7
-- Magneto's Psychic Resistant Helmet (X-Men Movies: Young) 5
-- Sentinel (X-Men: DoFP) 7
-- Box of Gavrok (Buffyverse) 7
-- The Trio's Invisibility Ray (Buffyverse) 2

[SIZE=4]Mighty MUTO, Power Rangers![/SIZE]
MUTO (MonsterVerse) 7
-- Centipede Serum (MCU) 5

[SIZE=4]Power of the Deadman:[/SIZE]
The Undertaker (WWE) 4
-- MITRE Headset (Doctor Who) 9

[SIZE=4]Post-Urban Commando:[/SIZE]
Shep Ramsey (Suburban Commando) 1
-- Star Blade (Smallville) 9

[SIZE=4]WE Are Venom:[/SIZE]
Venom (Spider-Man 3) 6
-- Muppet Lab's Copier ala Carte (Muppet Show) 9

[SIZE=4]A Drac that REALLY Sucks:[/SIZE]
Dracula (Dracula Untold) 5
-- Gem of Amara (Buffyverse) 1
-- Power-Sucking Athame (Charmed) 6

[SIZE=4]Not MY Super Ex:[/SIZE]
G-Girl (My Super Ex-Girlfriend) 10
-- Magneto's Psychic Resistant Helmet (X-Men Movies: Old) 5


Alright. I'm going to start with some basic stuff here, then work my way on to the other. You know who was REALLY good at beating up people with the Radioactive Spider Bite in Spider Man movies? VENOM! He was beating Parker pretty bad until Green Goblin showed up with the Goblin Grenades. And that was just one Venom, even just 2 or 3 of them should completely murder Voldemort with the Spider bite. Voldemort's accuracy, like most Potterverse wizards wasn't great against normal-people much less Spider-Man + level dodgers.

Also, Electro got beat by Spider-Man, so someone better than him should give Electro a lot of trouble. And we've got Venoms to spare. Having not seen the last few Avengers movies, I'm not sure how much Stormbringer will do. The Wiki says Thor says it would [url=https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Stormbreaker#Capabilities]crush anyone on the Guardians of the Galaxy[/url] if they tried to use it, so I'm not sure Electro can wield it either. However if he can, Venom can; so Web-pull it out of Electro's grip and we can use it for ourselves.

Likewise, though Godzilla DID defeat all the monsters from the Mothership in Final Wars, that was because he took them on one-on-one up to three on one. He didn't have to take them all on at once. Likewise having nukes dropped on him, and throwing around Atomic Breath will attract the interest of the MUTO that wants to eat him.

From what I remember, and what the Wiki says, Apocalypse was relatively weak and frail once you got past his armor, forcefields and all that. So, as everything goes black for a moment, the Undertaker teleports over to Apocalypse and uses his mightily enhanced TK powers to shuck him right out of that armor. Lest we forget, Luke's powers were entirely latent in Dr. Who, and [url=https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/MITRE_headset
]he got upped to moon-dropping power[/url]. Someone who's already unlocked [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwoWtiRgC50]much greater power and used it[/url], should be much MORE efficient at it. Also he was a mutant as the MCU understood it, so the Sentinel will hunt him down and use its lasers to help defeat Apocalypse. They had feats of adapting to nearly any mutant power, so whatever Apocalypse uses will soon become useless.

Being another super-fast entity, who has no biological lifeforce to lose, Dracula can take on Daphne. While a Horn isn't the most Ergonomic weapon, Dracula is using a knife, and can add Daphne's speed to his own.

Zedd has the power to turn things into Power Rangers monsters with a wave of his staff, and make them grow with a grenade. He'll do both to the Box of Gavrok, making it into a Godzilla-sized monster that is spewing building sized demon-spiders all over the place. Then he looks up and sees Serpentera flying amongst the Dragons of London. Ticked off that someone would DARE steal HIS Zord, he warps in and starts demanding Josuke fly it where he commands, and shoot at who HE commands. If Josuke refuses Zedd can just shrink him down and crush him and take over Serpentera for himself!!

Lord Zedd has Commanded it, so the Box-Monster rampages over to do battle with the Hulk and the Doctor in the Hulkbuster suit. The spiders, once [url=https://buffy.fandom.com/wiki/Gavrok_Box_spiders]tiny and individually capable of killing the Slayer[/url], are now large, mighty, and capable of overwhelming the members of Nominis Requiratur. And that's not even getting into the Box itself as a Power Rangers' villain monster.

Shep will move to take on Ares, Wonder Woman was capable of fighting with him for a while, so Superman should be too. He doesn't have to beat Ares however. He just has to stall for long enough for the rest of the team to come and help him. Specifically, Serpentera or a Venom with Stormbreaker would really mess up Ares's day.

After they beat their primary foes, my guys can move on to helping clean up the other ones that need it. Some of the opponents might need quite a lot of beating to stay down, but we have beating power to spare. As always my guys are mostly quite intelligent as well as experienced and so will react to changing circumstances and Jcogg's strat to the best of their ability.

Post the first.

Daphne's speed is far greater than any other person in this match up, as she can move in a time stop with no enhancements whatsoever. Everyone else will basically be a statue to her. With Joey's power, anyone who requires metal equipment will be out of luck. Taker won't be able to use the MITRE enhancement, both Magneto Helmets will be gone, So will Zedd's Staff (And most of his head), The Copier, The Invisibility Ray, The ring and Athame, etc. This drastically gimps most of their offense. The Tak Horn works on Buffy Verse demons, and Buffyverse vampires are demons, so Dracula probably wouldn't be able to resist it's effect. The Undertaker might, but otherwise anyone who gets stabbed is pretty well FUBARed

As far as I'm aware, G-Girl and Shep have no natural psychic defenses, so Apocalypse can neutralyze them as threats with ease once Daphne does her melting thing.

Aditionally, some reactions to Munch's strat

[QUOTE]

Alright. I'm going to start with some basic stuff here, then work my way on to the other. You know who was REALLY good at beating up people with the Radioactive Spider Bite in Spider Man movies? VENOM! He was beating Parker pretty bad until Green Goblin showed up with the Goblin Grenades. And that was just one Venom, even just 2 or 3 of them should completely murder Voldemort with the Spider bite. Voldemort's accuracy, like most Potterverse wizards wasn't great against normal-people much less Spider-Man + level dodgers.
[/QUOTE]

While Venom is nominally capable of hanging with Spider-Man, he's never blitzed him. Since Voldemort can telport, he should be able to evade Venom for long enough to hit him with an AOE Memory wipe or killing curse. Or, ya know, Fiendfyre. Additionally, Venom will not have the benefit of copies since the Copier was melted (And this is assuming that Venom doesn't get Shanked by the Tak Horn, which I'm not convinced of) so it's a one on one. Well, actually it's a one on 4, since Voldemort would be right by Hulk, Ares and Apocalypse

[QUOTE]
Also, Electro got beat by Spider-Man, so someone better than him should give Electro a lot of trouble. And we've got Venoms to spare. Having not seen the last few Avengers movies, I'm not sure how much Stormbringer will do. The Wiki says Thor says it would crush anyone on the Guardians of the Galaxy if they tried to use it, so I'm not sure Electro can wield it either. However if he can, Venom can; so Web-pull it out of Electro's grip and we can use it for ourselves.

[/QUOTE]
Electro got beaten by Spidey's science skills, which this venom lacks. Additionally, there's not grip to rip Stormbreaker out of, since Electro will be inside it, and he'll be in the air attacking the Xillian Ship, well outside of Venom's reach (And with the Copier destroyed, there's only one Venom anyway)

[QUOTE]
Likewise, though Godzilla DID defeat all the monsters from the Mothership in Final Wars, that was because he took them on one-on-one up to three on one. He didn't have to take them all on at once. Likewise having nukes dropped on him, and throwing around Atomic Breath will attract the interest of the MUTO that wants to eat him.
[/QUOTE]

Said MUTO will be on Godzilla's side thanks to Apocalypse, and the Kaiju's getting released is not a given due to Electro's attack. Additionally the Doctor will be working on freeing the Kaiju from the Xillian's control, which means Godzilla will have three other allies: Anguirus, Rodan, and King Caesar. Since Godzilla could defeat any of the individual Kaiju with ease, I'd give him good odds even if they wee all released.

[QUOTE]
From what I remember, and what the Wiki says, Apocalypse was relatively weak and frail once you got past his armor, forcefields and all that. So, as everything goes black for a moment, the Undertaker teleports over to Apocalypse and uses his mightily enhanced TK powers to shuck him right out of that armor. Lest we forget, Luke's powers were entirely latent in Dr. Who, and he got upped to moon-dropping power. Someone who's already unlocked much greater power and used it, should be much MORE efficient at it. Also he was a mutant as the MCU understood it, so the Sentinel will hunt him down and use its lasers to help defeat Apocalypse. They had feats of adapting to nearly any mutant power, so whatever Apocalypse uses will soon become useless.
[/QUOTE]

I don't recall any particular frailty demonstrated by Apocalypse. In any case, Taker's MITRE headset will have been destroyed long before he can teleport over to Apocalypse, so it'd just be Taker vs. Apocalypse, Voldemort, Ares, and Hulk. I'm betting Taker gets taken out by the singularity grenade

[QUOTE]

Being another super-fast entity, who has no biological lifeforce to lose, Dracula can take on Daphne. While a Horn isn't the most Ergonomic weapon, Dracula is using a knife, and can add Daphne's speed to his own.
[/QUOTE]

Knife gets melted, and unless Drac is fast enough to move in a time stop, he ain't reacting to Daphne at all. As stated above, Tak Horn should work on Vampires

[QUOTE]

Zedd has the power to turn things into Power Rangers monsters with a wave of his staff, and make them grow with a grenade. He'll do both to the Box of Gavrok, making it into a Godzilla-sized monster that is spewing building sized demon-spiders all over the place. Then he looks up and sees Serpentera flying amongst the Dragons of London. Ticked off that someone would DARE steal HIS Zord, he warps in and starts demanding Josuke fly it where he commands, and shoot at who HE commands. If Josuke refuses Zedd can just shrink him down and crush him and take over Serpentera for himself!!

Lord Zedd has Commanded it, so the Box-Monster rampages over to do battle with the Hulk and the Doctor in the Hulkbuster suit. The spiders, once tiny and individually capable of killing the Slayer, are now large, mighty, and capable of overwhelming the members of Nominis Requiratur. And that's not even getting into the Box itself as a Power Rangers' villain monster.
[/QUOTE]

As stated above, Zedd gets both his Staff and Head melted before he can react by Daphne

[QUOTE]

Shep will move to take on Ares, Wonder Woman was capable of fighting with him for a while, so Superman should be too. He doesn't have to beat Ares however. He just has to stall for long enough for the rest of the team to come and help him. Specifically, Serpentera or a Venom with Stormbreaker would really mess up Ares's day.
[/QUOTE]

Shep will need to beat a Telepathic assault before he can do any of this

[QUOTE]After they beat their primary foes, my guys can move on to helping clean up the other ones that need it. Some of the opponents might need quite a lot of beating to stay down, but we have beating power to spare. As always my guys are mostly quite intelligent as well as experienced and so will react to changing circumstances and Jcogg's strat to the best of their ability.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately intelligence and Experience will not be sufficient to close the speed gap, and which her melting power she can take down the primary TP defense on your team, which means that your team will quickly fracture against itself and be left easy pickings for mine. The characters you have with natural TP resistance won't be enough to beat my team

[QUOTE=Jcogginsa;4367964]Post the first.

Daphne's speed is far greater than any other person in this match up, as she can move in a time stop with no enhancements whatsoever. Everyone else will basically be a statue to her.[/quote]

Ugh... Are we REALLY starting the first match with "Speed blitz at the bell"? And anyway, we do have a couple of Superman-level people, so I'm hoping we will still have a chance.


[quote] With Joey's power, anyone who requires metal equipment will be out of luck.[/quote]

You're talking about hitting some small things on some pretty powerful dudes. Was Daphne's power AoE, touch based, focus target, what?

[quote]
As far as I'm aware, G-Girl and Shep have no natural psychic defenses, so Apocalypse can neutralyze them as threats with ease once Daphne does her melting thing. [/quote]

As far as I know they did not. Fortunately Shep has the psychic defense of "Way to fast for Apocalypse to target", as he had to take time to [URL="https://xmenmovies.fandom.com/wiki/Apocalypse#Powers_and_Abilities"]amp himself to get to Quicksilver level power[/URL].

[quote]
Aditionally, some reactions to Munch's strat



While Venom is nominally capable of hanging with Spider-Man, he's never blitzed him. Since Voldemort can telport, he should be able to evade Venom for long enough to hit him with an AOE Memory wipe or killing curse. Or, ya know, Fiendfyre. Additionally, Venom will not have the benefit of copies since the Copier was melted (And this is assuming that Venom doesn't get Shanked by the Tak Horn, which I'm not convinced of) so it's a one on one. Well, actually it's a one on 4, since Voldemort would be right by Hulk, Ares and Apocalypse[/quote]


True Venom never speed blitzed Spider-Man, but he was immune to the spider-sense and was pretty fast and much stronger and tougher. That's why I sent loads of them. and if you dump Fiendfyre on the guys attacking you, while your guy is staying back to guard Apocalypse you're going to be setting super-massive magical flames off near your own people you were trying to block for. And unlike AK, the FF was known for being wild and spreading as much as it could wherever it could.

(Also I know BOOK Voldemort never actually showed FF, did he do it in the movies?)

[quote]
Electro got beaten by Spidey's science skills, which this venom lacks. Additionally, there's not grip to rip Stormbreaker out of, since Electro will be inside it, and he'll be in the air attacking the Xillian Ship, well outside of Venom's reach (And with the Copier destroyed, there's only one Venom anyway)[/quote]

Wait Stormbringer can absorb people and let them still function? I really need to get around to seeing those movies, because the Wiki didn't mention that one. (if you're going to say that was Electro's power, that wiki didn't mention that either and I'd ask for feats on his powers having Thor's strength to lift it.)


[quote]
Said MUTO will be on Godzilla's side thanks to Apocalypse,[/quote]

Did he ever mind control mindless animals? I mean the MUTO was said to pretty much be acting on instinct throughout the movie. I figured it would be the same here.


[quote]
and the Kaiju's getting released is not a given due to Electro's attack.[/quote]

I don't really buy that. I mean

A) the ship is pretty big, it MAY have kept them all physically.

B) Even if it did Pokeball them up with some kind of technology why would you assume breaking it Wouldn't Release them from the ship?

[quote] Additionally the Doctor will be working on freeing the Kaiju from the Xillian's control,[/quote]

A) Vader would probably detect the Doctor trying to sneak on. I mean he did it on the Death Star and this ship has a lot less minds running around to interfere with senses.

B) Even if he did free them, that just means they are going to rampage all over the place rather than serve my team. None of the Final Wars versions were shown to like Godzilla or want to help him, IIRC.

[quote]
I don't recall any particular frailty demonstrated by Apocalypse. [/quote]

Well it was more like "all the toughness was in the armor", but by that point they were throwing ALL the firepower at him, so I may be wrong. The point is ripping the moon out of orbit is WAY more than movie "Phoenix" showed, so I'm guessing Untertaker COULD rip dude up as long as he keeps his helmet.

[quote]
Knife gets melted, and unless Drac is fast enough to move in a time stop, he ain't reacting to Daphne at all. As stated above, Tak Horn should work on Vampires
[/quote]

Ummm… do we have any details on how the "timestop" worked? Was it just the other guy was moving so fast everyone LOOKED stopped and Daphne was fast enough to keep up with him, or some kind of just actual stopping of how time works (so "How much speed" should be meaningless, but does anyway because fiction), or every was moving super slow because Flash-esque Speed steal or what?


[quote]Unfortunately intelligence and Experience will not be sufficient to close the speed gap, and which her melting power she can take down the primary TP defense on your team, which means that your team will quickly fracture against itself and be left easy pickings for mine. The characters you have with natural TP resistance won't be enough to beat my team[/QUOTE]

Well, we do have some Supermans, but I'm quite disappointed we are STARTING the League with "Speed blitz at the bell, anything in the other guy's strat is completely Irrelevant".

Post the second

[QUOTE=The MunchKING;4368303]Ugh... Are we REALLY starting the first match with "Speed blitz at the bell"? And anyway, we do have a couple of Superman-level people, so I'm hoping we will still have a chance. [/QUOTE]

It's an effective strat. Especially combined with the Tak Horn. And unfortunately, one of your Superman tiers needs an object, which can be taken from him. BTW, is the Sword make of Metal?

[QUOTE]
You're talking about hitting some small things on some pretty powerful dudes. Was Daphne's power AoE, touch based, focus target, what? [/QUOTE]
It definitely works at Range. Not extreme Range, but I'd say anything in her immediate vicinity is meltable.

[QUOTE]
As far as I know they did not. Fortunately Shep has the psychic defense of "Way to fast for Apocalypse to target", as he had to take time to [URL="https://xmenmovies.fandom.com/wiki/Apocalypse#Powers_and_Abilities"]amp himself to get to Quicksilver level power[/URL]. [/QUOTE]

I don't think Shep would be able to find Apocalypse and get through his guards before Apocalypse can think. Especially if the Sword is Metal

[QUOTE]
True Venom never speed blitzed Spider-Man, but he was immune to the spider-sense and was pretty fast and much stronger and tougher. That's why I sent loads of them. and if you dump Fiendfyre on the guys attacking you, while your guy is staying back to guard Apocalypse you're going to be setting super-massive magical flames off near your own people you were trying to block for. And unlike AK, the FF was known for being wild and spreading as much as it could wherever it could.

(Also I know BOOK Voldemort never actually showed FF, did he do it in the movies?) [/QUOTE]
Pretty sure Voldemort uses Fiendfyre in the film version of his fight with Dumbledore.

As for sending Multiple Venoms: Daphne broke the Copier with her melting power, pretty sure Venom wouldn't have the time to copy himself

[QUOTE]
Wait Stormbringer can absorb people and let them still function? I really need to get around to seeing those movies, because the Wiki didn't mention that one. (if you're going to say that was Electro's power, that wiki didn't mention that either and I'd ask for feats on his powers having Thor's strength to lift it.)
[/QUOTE]
No, I think Electro could hide inside it through an application of his power, since he can transform into electricity and enter electrical devices, which I think Stormbringer would qualify as.

As for lifting Stormbringer, Cap could do it

[QUOTE]
Did he ever mind control mindless animals? I mean the MUTO was said to pretty much be acting on instinct throughout the movie. I figured it would be the same here.

[/QUOTE]
I would think acting on instinct would make it more likely to be susceptible to Mind Control.

[QUOTE]I don't really buy that. I mean

A) the ship is pretty big, it MAY have kept them all physically.

B) Even if it did Pokeball them up with some kind of technology why would you assume breaking it Wouldn't Release them from the ship? [/QUOTE]
A) It's been a while since I saw the movie, but I don't recall the ship being much better than Godzilla himself

B) Because if it did then the technology to release them would have been broken

[QUOTE]
A) Vader would probably detect the Doctor trying to sneak on. I mean he did it on the Death Star and this ship has a lot less minds running around to interfere with senses.

B) Even if he did free them, that just means they are going to rampage all over the place rather than serve my team. None of the Final Wars versions were shown to like Godzilla or want to help him, IIRC.
[/QUOTE]
A) Yes, but the Doctor has psychic abilities of his own which he could use to resist Vader's searches. Or he could jury rig one of the "No one pays attention to me" devices that he gave to Martha

B) Yes, but Godzilla was shown to be friendly with Rodan, Anguirus, and King Caesar when he spared them, indicating that he's on good terms with them.
[QUOTE]
Well it was more like "all the toughness was in the armor", but by that point they were throwing ALL the firepower at him, so I may be wrong. The point is ripping the moon out of orbit is WAY more than movie "Phoenix" showed, so I'm guessing Untertaker COULD rip dude up as long as he keeps his helmet.
[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, if Taker's got the MITRE then he could easily beat the group. But the MITRE's metal,
[QUOTE]
Ummm… do we have any details on how the "timestop" worked? Was it just the other guy was moving so fast everyone LOOKED stopped and Daphne was fast enough to keep up with him, or some kind of just actual stopping of how time works (so "How much speed" should be meaningless, but does anyway because fiction), or every was moving super slow because Flash-esque Speed steal or what?[/QUOTE]
Nope, dude's name was Hiro Nakamura had straight up mastery over Time and Space. He could Teleport, Time Travel, and Time Stop. He just had to concentrate for a moment. She stole something from him, so he stopped time and went to find her to get it back. She faked being frozen, then knocked him out (Dude had a glass jaw). And this was her debut


[QUOTE]
Well, we do have some Supermans, but I'm quite disappointed we are STARTING the League with "Speed blitz at the bell, anything in the other guy's strat is completely Irrelevant".[/QUOTE]
Well, you could argue based on Durability that the Tak Horn doesn't work, which would gimp a lot of her offense.

A couple observations on this fight.

I don't believe Apocalypse had offensive telepathy in the movie. He had high defense against it, but needed Xavier to broadcast his thoughts.

How is Electro using Storm breaker from the inside? How powerful are his hits and how fast can it go?

What is G Girl doing this fight? She could help to stop a blitz but I don't see her doing it. Shep with the Starblade could probably react to Daphne but to what extent idk.

The Undertaker while boosted going against Apocalypse may not work as well as it should as Apocalypse was good at counters and has more skill overall, but Undertaker is bringing alot of raw power.

If Vader sits back and allows the Doctor to hack the ship then it's doomef, but if he can attack the Doc before he starts it has a chance to do real damage with a slew of Kaiju.

Post 3
[QUOTE=Darth Drizzle;4369159]A couple observations on this fight.

I don't believe Apocalypse had offensive telepathy in the movie. He had high defense against it, but needed Xavier to broadcast his thoughts.
[/QUOTE]
I wold presume that he'd need Offensive TP to force Xavier into boadcasting his thoughts. IIRC, he also had a mental battle with Charles too.

In any case, he does have a telepath nearby him, Voldemort
[QUOTE]
How is Electro using Storm breaker from the inside? How powerful are his hits and how fast can it go?
[/QUOTE]
Stormbreaker seemed to enhance Cap the same way it did Thor, so I think it should make Electro Thor level. Additionally, it can move under it's own power
[QUOTE]
What is G Girl doing this fight? She could help to stop a blitz but I don't see her doing it. Shep with the Starblade could probably react to Daphne but to what extent idk.[/QUOTE]
Hence my plan do have Apocalypse force him to drop the Sword

[QUOTE]
The Undertaker while boosted going against Apocalypse may not work as well as it should as Apocalypse was good at counters and has more skill overall, but Undertaker is bringing alot of raw power.
[/QUOTE]
And that's why I had Daphne melt the MITRE
[QUOTE]
If Vader sits back and allows the Doctor to hack the ship then it's doomef, but if he can attack the Doc before he starts it has a chance to do real damage with a slew of Kaiju.[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind, Vader's got two outside forces attacking him ATM

(Also, I'd just like to let everyone know that I'll be leaving on a family trip Tommorrow, and won't be able to respond to anyone till Sunday once I leave. )

Dang it, I had a nice post with lots of links and then my browser crashed. Trying to recreate it...

[QUOTE=Jcogginsa;4368368]And unfortunately, one of your Superman tiers needs an object, which can be taken from him. BTW, is the Sword make of Metal?[/quote]

Lionel thought it was [URL="https://smallville.fandom.com/wiki/Palak#Notes"]some kind of Kryptonian super-metal[/URL]. Whether that makes it more energy intensive to melt, I don't know.


[quote]It definitely works at Range. Not extreme Range, but I'd say anything in her immediate vicinity is meltable. [/quote]

Did it require targeting, or was it just "Everything metal in my area is melting when I turned on my power"?


[quote]
I don't think Shep would be able to find Apocalypse and get through his guards before Apocalypse can think. Especially if the Sword is Metal
[/quote]

Well I more meant he'd be running around fighting Ares or once Daphne shows how quick she is, her; and Apocalypse wouldn't be able to target him. He needed Xavier for all his wide-spread bursts in the movie (IIRC).

[quote]
Pretty sure Voldemort uses Fiendfyre in the film version of his fight with Dumbledore.[/quote]

*Shrug* OK, I'll believe you. I only saw like two of the movies, and those weren't one of them.

[quote]No, I think Electro could hide inside it through an application of his power, since he can transform into electricity and enter electrical devices, which I think Stormbringer would qualify as. [/quote]

Huh. The wiki didn't mention that. Alright, feats for what he could do while possessing stuff?

[quote]
As for lifting Stormbringer, Cap could do it[/quote]

Oh well then Venom definitely could. Time for some extreme webbage. :D

[quote]
I would think acting on instinct would make it more likely to be susceptible to Mind Control.
[/quote]

Depends on if he ever mind-controlled something without higher order thinking capabilities in the movie...

[quote]
A) It's been a while since I saw the movie, but I don't recall the ship being much better than Godzilla himself[/quote]

Ship was [URL="https://godzilla.fandom.com/wiki/Xilien_Mothership"]1000 meters in diameter[/URL], [URL="https://godzilla.fandom.com/wiki/Godzilla_(FW)"]that Godzilla was 100 meters tall[/URL], according to the Wiki. And of course 10 times increase in size is a much huger increase in area thanks to the way three dimensional shapes work.

[quote]
B) Because if it did then the technology to release them would have been broken[/quote]

Alternately the tech holding them is broken, and they are freed.

[quote]B) Yes, but Godzilla was shown to be friendly with Rodan, Anguirus, and King Caesar when he spared them, indicating that he's on good terms with them.[/quote]

I REALLY need to watch the movie again apparently.

[quote]
Oh yeah, if Taker's got the MITRE then he could easily beat the group. But the MITRE's metal, [/quote]

As far as we know... :D

[quote]
Nope, dude's name was Hiro Nakamura had straight up mastery over Time and Space. He could Teleport, Time Travel, and Time Stop. He just had to concentrate for a moment. She stole something from him, so he stopped time and went to find her to get it back. She faked being frozen, then knocked him out (Dude had a glass jaw). And this was her debut[/quote]

Huh, that powerset is just vague enough I can't put any hard numbers to it to argue how fast it would have to be...



[quote]Well, you could argue based on Durability that the Tak Horn doesn't work, which would gimp a lot of her offense.[/QUOTE]

Well Buuffyverse Vamps, aren't Dracula vamps. So the fact that it killed one of their demons isn't necessarily proof it would kill one of our vampires.


[QUOTE=Darth Drizzle;4369159]What is G Girl doing this fight? She could help to stop a blitz but I don't see her doing it. Shep with the Starblade could probably react to Daphne but to what extent idk.[/quote]

*looks over strat* I didn't say? Then she's free to react to Daphne as soon as she starts trouble.

And the problem with "Acted in a time stop" is I have no idea what kind of speed to assign that, so I have no idea how much it should help against Superman expies.

[quote]
The Undertaker while boosted going against Apocalypse may not work as well as it should as Apocalypse was good at counters and has more skill overall, but Undertaker is bringing alot of raw power.[/quote]

And a surprising amount of skill in Hand to Hand. :D

[quote]
If Vader sits back and allows the Doctor to hack the ship then it's doomef, but if he can attack the Doc before he starts it has a chance to do real damage with a slew of Kaiju.[/QUOTE]

Well yeah, and he's sensed other powerful psychics across the Death Star, and his son from orbit. And now he's in a ship with almost NO extraneous minds to distract him. So I was thinking he could do something about the Doctor before he broke too much stuff. Because I don't want to get into an argument on lightsabers vs. Hulkbuster armor, I'll point out he could Force choke people from a long way away, and the Hulkbuster didn't have feats of stopping anything like the Force, IIRC.

Post 4
[QUOTE=The MunchKING;4369325]Dang it, I had a nice post with lots of links and then my browser crashed. Trying to recreate it...



Lionel thought it was [URL="https://smallville.fandom.com/wiki/Palak#Notes"]some kind of Kryptonian super-metal[/URL]. Whether that makes it more energy intensive to melt, I don't know.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe? I don't know.

[QUOTE]

Did it require targeting, or was it just "Everything metal in my area is melting when I turned on my power"?

[/QUOTE]
When he first got the powers he instinctively melted anything he touched. Once he learned control, be came able to do so at range. It does still require targetting though.

(Note, He can also reform the metal into new shapes, but that is going to be less useful in the rumble)
[QUOTE]
Well I more meant he'd be running around fighting Ares or once Daphne shows how quick she is, her; and Apocalypse wouldn't be able to target him. He needed Xavier for all his wide-spread bursts in the movie (IIRC).
[/QUOTE]
I think Apocalypse feats in the movie should be sufficient to target one person from range

[QUOTE]Huh. The wiki didn't mention that. Alright, feats for what he could do while possessing stuff?
[/QUOTE]
Well in the film he mostly used it to do the Travelling through wires bit, and appeared on TV screens. I don't think he ever possessed anything that travels under it's own power
[QUOTE]
Oh well then Venom definitely could. Time for some extreme webbage. :D

[/QUOTE]
And then he's holding onto a weapon with the ability to shoot lightning, inhabited by a hostile energy being. Not a good position to be in
[QUOTE]Depends on if he ever mind-controlled something without higher order thinking capabilities in the movie...
[/QUOTE]

I don't think so, but it seems off to me
[QUOTE]Ship was [URL="https://godzilla.fandom.com/wiki/Xilien_Mothership"]1000 meters in diameter[/URL], [URL="https://godzilla.fandom.com/wiki/Godzilla_(FW)"]that Godzilla was 100 meters tall[/URL], according to the Wiki. And of course 10 times increase in size is a much huger increase in area thanks to the way three dimensional shapes work. [/QUOTE]
Hmm, I still wouldn't put odds on the ship carrying them all at once.

[QUOTE]
Alternately the tech holding them is broken, and they are freed.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe,
[QUOTE]
I REALLY need to watch the movie again apparently.
[/QUOTE]
Here's a video of Goji's fights

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnbwWyqiICE[/url]


[QUOTE]
Huh, that powerset is just vague enough I can't put any hard numbers to it to argue how fast it would have to be...
[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXp4iNBFL88[/url]

Here they are meeting. Note that it starts after the Time Stop


[QUOTE]
Well Buuffyverse Vamps, aren't Dracula vamps. So the fact that it killed one of their demons isn't necessarily proof it would kill one of our vampires.
[/QUOTE]

Fair enough
[QUOTE]
*looks over strat* I didn't say? Then she's free to react to Daphne as soon as she starts trouble.

And the problem with "Acted in a time stop" is I have no idea what kind of speed to assign that, so I have no idea how much it should help against Superman expies. [/QUOTE]
I would peg moving in a time stop as FTL at a minimum. What is G-Girl's best speed feat

[QUOTE]
And a surprising amount of skill in Hand to Hand. :D
[/QUOTE]
He's also outnumbered, and I doubt Venom's gonna get their quick enough to back him up
[QUOTE]
Well yeah, and he's sensed other powerful psychics across the Death Star, and his son from orbit. And now he's in a ship with almost NO extraneous minds to distract him. So I was thinking he could do something about the Doctor before he broke too much stuff. Because I don't want to get into an argument on lightsabers vs. Hulkbuster armor, I'll point out he could Force choke people from a long way away, and the Hulkbuster didn't have feats of stopping anything like the Force, IIRC.[/QUOTE]
Vader is being distracted by two outside forces attacking his ship.

[QUOTE=Jcogginsa;4369407]When he first got the powers he instinctively melted anything he touched. Once he learned control, be came able to do so at range. It does still require targetting though.[/quote]

Ah good, then the trick is to make him miss. Like the Undertaker's magic darkness teleportation. :D

[quote]I think Apocalypse feats in the movie should be sufficient to target one person from range[/quote]

One who's moving at superspeed?

Also the original stat seemed to go for a general attack, but specifically called out G-girl and Shep as superspeedsters.

[quote]I don't think so, but it seems off to me [/quote]

I'll claim it will work out for me then, and we'll see how the voters vote.

[quote][url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXp4iNBFL88[/url]

Here they are meeting. Note that it starts after the Time Stop[/quote]

So fast enough to leave air pockets, but as she pointed out it's really more of a time slowing effect than actual stoppage.

The "real time" view at the end is the standard "blur-off" that most live action speedsters on a TV budget get.

[quote]
I would peg moving in a time stop as FTL at a minimum. What is G-Girl's best speed feat
[/quote]

I was looking on YouTube and here's a "[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfT7dybYoek"]Changing clothes super fast[/URL]" scene like Superman (which then also does a slo mo camera for some underwear scene so NSFW) And [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOZxmhNS16Y"]here's one[/URL] where they fight at blur speed. It's admittedly not as detailed of a feat as the Heroes turned out to be.

[quote]
He's also outnumbered, and I doubt Venom's gonna get their quick enough to back him up[/QUOTE]

Well that's what the Giant Kaiju Box and the Super sized spiders are supposed to help with. And Shep taking on Ares.

Post 5

[QUOTE=The MunchKING;4369452]Ah good, then the trick is to make him miss. Like the Undertaker's magic darkness teleportation. :D
[/QUOTE]
Can taker do that outdoors?
[QUOTE]
One who's moving at superspeed?

Also the original stat seemed to go for a general attack, but specifically called out G-girl and Shep as superspeedsters. [/QUOTE]
My idea was that if Apocalypse could target everyone he would, but if he couldn't, they were the priorities


[QUOTE]

So fast enough to leave air pockets, but as she pointed out it's really more of a time slowing effect than actual stoppage.

The "real time" view at the end is the standard "blur-off" that most live action speedsters on a TV budget get.
[/QUOTE]
The show does draw distinction between Hiro slowing time and hm freezing it.
[QUOTE]
I was looking on YouTube and here's a "[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfT7dybYoek"]Changing clothes super fast[/URL]" scene like Superman (which then also does a slo mo camera for some underwear scene so NSFW) And [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOZxmhNS16Y"]here's one[/URL] where they fight at blur speed. It's admittedly not as detailed of a feat as the Heroes turned out to be.
[/QUOTE]
Hmm, I wouldn't lay odds on her tagging Daphne based on those
[QUOTE]
Well that's what the Giant Kaiju Box and the Super sized spiders are supposed to help with. And Shep taking on Ares.[/QUOTE]
Giant Kaiju Box is likely a wash, since Zedd's head is made of Metal

Post 6

Something I only recently learned: The Xillian Spaceship doesn't control the Kaiju via tech, they do so via the Kaiser ability of the Xillian commander. So if Vader wants to control the Kaiju, he'll have to do so himself with the force, which will distract him

[QUOTE=Jcogginsa;4378296]Post 6

Something I only recently learned: The Xillian Spaceship doesn't control the Kaiju via tech, they do so via the Kaiser ability of the Xillian commander. So if Vader wants to control the Kaiju, he'll have to do so himself with the force, which will distract him[/QUOTE]

I thought it used tech to boost the TP power of the commander's Kaiser power, but if not that would make it a lot harder for Who to do anything about.

One week has passed, discussion over.

Poll to be posted soon.