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Marvel's Celestials
Marvel's cosmic hierarchy is much more formally established than DC's. Their levels are much easier for me to understand.
Except for the Celestials.
They are a mystery to me in terms of power. Where do they rank in the MU? How many Celestials are there? Can a single Celestial beat Galactus? Can the whole Host?
Where on the rumbles food chain do they belong?
How would a single Celestial fare against:
- Thanos
- Odin
- Mephisto
- Dormammu
- Galactus
And how would the whole Host of Celestials do against
- Mephisto
- Dormammu
- Galactus
- Death
- Eternity
How far up the food chain before anyone stops them cold, if at all?
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Basically a single Celestial can whomp all over everyone on that list aside from Galactus. Dormammu could maaaybe do some sort of trickery with prep but a straight fight, he is boned.
Galactus is... maybe worth 3 Celestials when at near full power? He can beat them 1 v 1 with trouble but a win is a win. He could maybe engage 2 or 3 at his limit.
The host beats even him though
Edit: I didn't see the 2nd scenario had different opponents. Eternity is probably a bit above the host... Ehh. I've always had trouble pegging him and Death. Supposedly they are peers of Galactus when he is at FULL strength. So.
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Also not all celestial are equal.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;3362677]- Dormammu[/QUOTE]
If you believe Furnace Face, he's quite capable of dealing with the Celestials (I kid you not:[I] Dr. Strange, Sorcerer Supreme [/I]#2).
.....
[I]If[/I] you believe him.
The Dorm has (with good reason) ego out the yin-yang.
Personally, I think it's one of the few times his bragging is nothing but hot air (literally as well, but then his breath is always pretty scorching).
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[QUOTE=Sharpandpointies;3363564]If you believe Furnace Face, he's quite capable of dealing with the Celestials (I kid you not:[I] Dr. Strange, Sorcerer Supreme [/I]#2).
.....
[I]If[/I] you believe him.
The Dorm has (with good reason) ego out the yin-yang.
Personally, I think it's one of the few times his bragging is nothing but hot air (literally as well, but then his breath is always pretty scorching).[/QUOTE]
To be fair to The Dorm, I think he /technically/ has more impressive feats than any Celestial. Corrupting entire dimensions/universes is pretty up there. Only problem is that doing that sort of thing takes some prep and ritual magic.
Oddly, despite having slightly less oomph than say Odin, I believe Dorm has a better chance at beating a Celestial in a comic scenario if he were given some time to think.
In a straight arena fight, he screwed though :P
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I'm not saying it's impossible. Part of the business of warping dimensions involves him messing with the laws of reality in said dimensions. It's possible that him mucking around with such things will, on some level, nerf all hell out of Celestials, deprive them of their powers, whatever.
I have no idea.
But it shouldn't be taken as 'Furnace Face is more powerful than Celestials', because he isn't. Barring shenanigans like the universal rug being pulled out from under them (if that even works), they'd kick him around like a beachball.
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[QUOTE=Sharpandpointies;3364095]I'm not saying it's impossible. Part of the business of warping dimensions involves him messing with the laws of reality in said dimensions. It's possible that him mucking around with such things will, on some level, nerf all hell out of Celestials, deprive them of their powers, whatever.
I have no idea.
But it shouldn't be taken as 'Furnace Face is more powerful than Celestials', because he isn't. Barring shenanigans like the universal rug being pulled out from under them (if that even works), they'd kick him around like a beachball.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, pretty much exactly this.
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[QUOTE=The Chou Lives;3362906]Also not all celestial are equal.[/QUOTE]
Interesting.
Three and half questions:
How many Celestials are there?
How big is the gap between the weakest Celestial and the strongest Celestial?
Did the Host ever interact with IG Thanos or PR Beyonder? And if so, how did they rate?
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[QUOTE=Sharpandpointies;3364095]I'm not saying it's impossible. Part of the business of warping dimensions involves him messing with the laws of reality in said dimensions. It's possible that him mucking around with such things will, on some level, nerf all hell out of Celestials, deprive them of their powers, whatever.
I have no idea.
But it shouldn't be taken as 'Furnace Face is more powerful than Celestials', because he isn't. Barring shenanigans like the universal rug being pulled out from under them (if that even works), they'd kick him around like a beachball.[/QUOTE]
Eh... Celestials can bounce between different universes and retain their power, and we saw how much good controlling your own realm did for Mephisto against Galactus.
I could get behind some ritual stuff taking out a Celestial, but unless Dorm has some Prince Who Is a Thousand style feats I'm skeptical of him warping a dimension so a Celestial can't use their powers there.
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[QUOTE=The Arbiter;3362680]Basically a single Celestial can whomp all over everyone on that list aside from Galactus. Dormammu could maaaybe do some sort of trickery with prep but a straight fight, he is boned.
Galactus is... maybe worth 3 Celestials when at near full power? He can beat them 1 v 1 with trouble but a win is a win. He could maybe engage 2 or 3 at his limit.
The host beats even him though
Edit: I didn't see the 2nd scenario had different opponents. Eternity is probably a bit above the host... Ehh. I've always had trouble pegging him and Death. Supposedly they are peers of Galactus when he is at FULL strength. So.[/QUOTE]
Even Odin? Didn't he shake the universe powering up or something?
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;3369976]Interesting.
Three and half questions:
How many Celestials are there?
How big is the gap between the weakest Celestial and the strongest Celestial?
Did the Host ever interact with IG Thanos or PR Beyonder? And if so, how did they rate?[/QUOTE]
Hard to say how many. Not a huge number. More than 10, likely less than 100. But its uncertain. They breed by incubating in the cores of planets. Fun fact, Galactus actually eats these planets with gestating celestial as a form of culling the population so they don't go rampant.
The gap is probably not huge. Even a "weak" celestial is a potent reality warper. Probably the really tough guys (Arishem or Exitar, maybe Dreaming Celestial) are... 3x? 5x as powerful as the weak? Hard to say.
Celestials are more or less treated like garbage against a Thanos era IG or PR Beyonder. An IG user (probably thanos, can't remember) actually blew up a celestial. Galactus observed the event like "whoa. those dudes can die?" lol
[QUOTE=choptop;3370095]Even Odin? Didn't he shake the universe powering up or something?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, especially Odin. Odins first encounter with a celestial was disastrous. He was channeling extra power from Zeus and Vishnu and tossed a bolt at Arishem. Didn't do a thing. Celestial turned around and threatened to destroy the various skyfather gateways to their respective realms. So Odin surrendered.
Fast forward 1000 years, Odin has forged the Destroyer Armor and has his Odinsword. He (and every other Asgardian soul) crammed into the Destroyer as it swelled up to several thousand feet in height. He chops a celestial arm off, which was cool (ultimately useless, dude just regenerate it) but then was literally turned into molten slag by the rest of them.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;3369976]Did the Host ever interact with IG Thanos or PR Beyonder? And if so, how did they rate?[/QUOTE]
The Beyonder beat up the Celestials - explicitly holding back - to show off. He treats them like dirt.
[QUOTE=Captain Morgan;3370028]Eh... Celestials can bounce between different universes and retain their power, and we saw how much good controlling your own realm did for Mephisto against Galactus.
I could get behind some ritual stuff taking out a Celestial, but unless Dorm has some Prince Who Is a Thousand style feats I'm skeptical of him warping a dimension so a Celestial can't use their powers there.[/QUOTE]
Galactus is kind of a different beast than the Celestials. And I figure it's weird that Furnace Face figures he can take over the Earth dimension, unless the Celestials actually don't give two craps.
I can't really see the Dorm's rituals being capable of wiping out more than one Celestial at a time, which means he maybe gets one and then has about five more in his face. Not a good situation.
Barring the whole 'I have changed the rules' ritual, I really have problems seeing how he would manage, and it's pretty clear-cut that he IS a threat to the entire Earth Dimension, not just Planet Earth.
Basically it boils down to 'Me not sure, me see contradictions, nothing new to comics'.
[SIZE=1]...also, nice reference. ^_^[/SIZE]
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During Infinity Gauntlet #5, the Celestials attacked Thanos with everything they had and it didn't do squat. They hurled planets and massive amounts of cosmic energies at him. He adjusted immediately.
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[QUOTE]The Beyonder beat up the Celestials - explicitly holding back - to show off. He treats them like dirt.[/QUOTE]
Beyonder treats everyone like dirt.
The guy killed Death by poisoning her.
[QUOTE]Hard to say how many. Not a huge number. More than 10, likely less than 100. But its uncertain. They breed by incubating in the cores of planets. Fun fact, Galactus actually eats these planets with gestating celestial as a form of culling the population so they don't go rampant. [/QUOTE]
There's at least 20 NAMED Celestials.
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[QUOTE]And I figure it's weird that Furnace Face figures he can take over the Earth dimension, unless the Celestials actually don't give two craps. [/QUOTE]
The guy has thought he can roll Eternity, to be fair.
Anyway, this isn't that great a standard, the Earth dimension is full of things that could roll Dormammu (including Galactus really) that he doesn't factor in, that's just comics.