Who is for an Jean Grey/Havok relationship ?

[QUOTE=JudicatorPrime;3969770]What are we talking about again?[/QUOTE]

I checked back to see why this thread is still going. I can...kinda see how it got here.

[QUOTE=Havok83;3969610]I wasnt talking about the 60s. Bobby and Polaris were an official couple in the 00s and broke up shortly after M-Day[/QUOTE]

Thanks for pointing this out. I started getting into Lorna in 2009, and everything prior, I really jumped around and read specific arcs and issues; not whole runs. None of the issues I've read included this component. Do you have any issues to suggest that would give me an idea of the relationship dynamic in this period?

[QUOTE=AHRNIHAL;3967759]Connection meant as the exact same power.And where was rachel's development when jean was gone?

Havok is never gonna get out of Scott's shadow.[/QUOTE]


Several factors invites doubt on the same power argument, NXM had six telepaths, and Hank and Logan with similar powersets. As well as multiple "Wolverines" across several titles, and the natural state of comics where characters with similar abilities are sometimes on the same team and function accordingly.

Your second point proves the general consensus of this thread, outside of you, Rachel and characters are frequently misused by editorial. Their neglected in events built around mythos they helped shape, or used to progress the stories or angst of their significant others.


The thing about Havok he's enjoyed similarly to his brother is consistent focus and development across multiple writers, teams, and editors. A luxury other characters may not get in a decades time, even dead Cyclops is still one of the most popular X-men, has fans awaiting his return, and the added bonus of actually being the singular focus of the franchise for years.

[QUOTE=salarta;3969878]Thanks for pointing this out. I started getting into Lorna in 2009, and everything prior, I really jumped around and read specific arcs and issues; not whole runs. None of the issues I've read included this component. Do you have any issues to suggest that would give me an idea of the relationship dynamic in this period?[/QUOTE]

They became official in X-men 165, the Holiday special that Claremont wrote and their shortlived relationship lasted in Milligan's run from 166-179. Unfortunately he didnt really do much with them. 171, the first issue of Bizarre Love triangle probably did the most with them. Unfortunately it had Alex fighting with Bobby over her after Lorna assured Bobby that he had nothing to be jealous of

[QUOTE=Havok83;3970820]They became official in X-men 165, the Holiday special that Claremont wrote and their shortlived relationship lasted in Milligan's run from 166-179. Unfortunately he didnt really do much with them. 171, the first issue of Bizarre Love triangle probably did the most with them. Unfortunately it had Alex fighting with Bobby over her after Lorna assured Bobby that he had nothing to be jealous of[/QUOTE]

Okay, so I'll assume I should go with 171, and if I still wonder then 165.

[QUOTE=Havok83;3970820]They became official in X-men 165, the Holiday special that Claremont wrote and their shortlived relationship lasted in Milligan's run from 166-179. Unfortunately he didnt really do much with them. 171, the first issue of Bizarre Love triangle probably did the most with them. Unfortunately it had Alex fighting with Bobby over her after Lorna assured Bobby that he had nothing to be jealous of[/QUOTE]

Ah, the Milligan era.

I felt Lorna's relationship with Bobby was an inverted version of Lorna and Havok's early platonic relationship from 1970. Though 1969-70 Lorna had alot more emotional control then Milligan's.

How did this get to 14 pages?

[QUOTE=TheSupernaut;3971179]How did this get to 14 pages?[/QUOTE]

Week without a bunch of issues, shipping battles always draw out the threads, and the usual suspects on board for their individual agendas.

[QUOTE=Celestialbodies;3970771]Several factors invites doubt on the same power argument, NXM had six telepaths, and Hank and Logan with similar powersets. As well as multiple "Wolverines" across several titles, and the natural state of comics where characters with similar abilities are sometimes on the same team and function accordingly.

Your second point proves the general consensus of this thread, outside of you, Rachel and characters are frequently misused by editorial. Their neglected in events built around mythos they helped shape, or used to progress the stories or angst of their significant others.


The thing about Havok he's enjoyed similarly to his brother is consistent focus and development across multiple writers, teams, and editors. A luxury other characters may not get in a decades time, even dead Cyclops is still one of the most popular X-men, has fans awaiting his return, and the added bonus of actually being the singular focus of the franchise for years.[/QUOTE]

Um no, Alex before Astonishing was treated like your friends annoying kid brother that Marvel all but forgot totally about for a few years, leaving him as one of only like 3 characters still inverted...and I didn't like Milligan's run either...

I'm not I prefer jean with Logan. they have a certain chemistry that cannot be denied.

[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3975760]I'm not I prefer jean with Logan. they have a certain chemistry that cannot be denied.[/QUOTE]

I deny it. In fact I rebuke it

[QUOTE=LoganAlpha30X33;3971237]Um no, Alex before Astonishing was treated like your friends annoying kid brother that Marvel all but forgot totally about for a few years, leaving him as one of only like 3 characters still inverted...and I didn't like Milligan's run either...[/QUOTE]



After Milligan's run Havok appears in Uncanny X-men the flagship under Brubaker, which transitioned in RAFOTSE, then War of King all of which he appeared as a somewhat competent leader per X-men protocol.

He spent a few years absent as did Rachel, and Polaris ironically enough, then Carey returned them in X-men Legacy. From there Havok and Polaris were immediately used by David, who had the wonderful job of breaking them up. Just in time for Havok to be used by Remender as the premier "Alex" of the unity squad.


Before any of this he was used quiet auspiciously by Austen, before that in Mutant-X, even further back, by David again.

My point is he has enjoyed far more relevance and growth than many of his peers even if that time in between is subjective for some. Even recently when he was inverted he was still used by Bendis, directly after Remender.

[QUOTE=Celestialbodies;3977579]After Milligan's run Havok appears in Uncanny X-men the flagship under Brubaker, which transitioned in RAFOTSE, then War of King all of which he appeared as a somewhat competent leader per X-men protocol.

He spent a few years absent as did Rachel, and Polaris ironically enough, then Carey returned them in X-men Legacy. From there Havok and Polaris were immediately used by David, who had the wonderful job of breaking them up. Just in time for Havok to be used by Remender as the premier "Alex" of the unity squad.


Before any of this he was used quiet auspiciously by Austen, before that in Mutant-X, even further back, by David again.

My point is he has enjoyed far more relevance and growth than many of his peers even if that time in between is subjective for some. [B]Even recently when he was inverted he was still used by Bendis, [/B]directly after Remender.[/QUOTE]
for 1 issue of Uncanny before his cameo in the finale. Id hardly count that. Other than that, I wouldnt disagree with your post. He faded off into limbo until DoX/IvX brought him back into the fold which Bunn picked him from in Blue

[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3975760]I'm not I prefer jean with Logan. they have a certain chemistry that cannot be denied.[/QUOTE]

It's true. They would be and look great. Marketable too.

Through all of that though Alex has no real close friends outside of Lorna...I didn't say that he wasn't used only that he wasn't treated very well during that time...

And yeah Logan/Jean could be VERY marketable...