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[QUOTE=lilyrose;4369898]Yeah, exactly. So the only hope for any kind of resolution to this relationship would have had to come from King himself. Now that's out the window.[/QUOTE]
I think at this point, we'll have to wait until King's finally ready to talk to see what's going on. And even then, we know if whatever writer does take over, they're gonna be VERY aware of the big shoes to fill and the expectation regarding the conclusion everybody's wanting, so they're gonna be forced to address it in some way.
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[QUOTE=Inversed;4369957]I think at this point, we'll have to wait until King's finally ready to talk to see what's going on. And even then, we know if whatever writer does take over, they're gonna be VERY aware of the big shoes to fill and the expectation regarding the conclusion everybody's wanting, so they're gonna be forced to address it in some way.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, right. Hasn't he already written through 85? He made it sound in the interview published today (today!) that he was through 90 and he only had like 10 issues left to write.
So if he hasn't gotten them back together yet it's pretty damn easy for whoever comes in next to just revert them to pre-engagement status quo and pretend like the whole thing never happened.
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I agree. Love him or hate him, whoever takes over is going to have to address what’s happened in his run. Unless they do another line wide reset, which is a possibility if they start basing things off of DDC again. I think the next writer will address it though. Might not be what you want but it will be something.
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[QUOTE=lilyrose;4369967]Yeah, right. Hasn't he already written through 85? He made it sound in the interview published today (today!) that he was through 90 and he only had like 10 issues left to write.
So if he hasn't gotten them back together yet it's pretty damn easy for whoever comes in next to just revert them to pre-engagement status quo and pretend like the whole thing never happened.[/QUOTE]
In the article you are referencing he says that his story ends at 90 and that he is 10 issues away from the end. So that puts him at issue 80.
Its a wonder you don't like his work :p
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[QUOTE=Talon1load;4369971]I agree. Love him or hate him, whoever takes over is going to have to address what’s happened in his run. Unless they do another line wide reset, which is a possibility if they start basing things off of DDC again. I think the next writer will address it though. Might not be what you want but it will be something.[/QUOTE]
There's a pretty strong history of new writers not addressing the previous status quo. It's pretty easy to work around it quickly. If you think back to the the start of Batman, Inc, there were a ton of bat-books on the shelves completely ignoring the main book and eliding past Bruce having been unstuck in time. Just put "3 months later" at the top of the first page and have Bruce say to Alfred, "I need to refocus the mission" and it's done. I'm not in favor of them doing that, but it's certainly not unprecedented
One should note this discussion presupposes that King is leaving because DC is unhappy with his formulation for a new direction. In the scenario where he's leaving to start Batman and Catwoman (or whatever) as a new semi-limited series (think: Batman, Inc or B&R), DC is in favor of King's new direction and the main Batman title wouldn't have to address it any more than the new writer wanted.
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[QUOTE=bob/.schoonover;4370004]There's a pretty strong history of new writers not addressing the previous status quo. It's pretty easy to work around it quickly. If you think back to the the start of Batman, Inc, there were a ton of bat-books on the shelves completely ignoring the main book and eliding past Bruce having been unstuck in time. Just put "3 months later" at the top of the first page and have Bruce say to Alfred, "I need to refocus the mission" and it's done. I'm not in favor of them doing that, but it's certainly not unprecedented
One should note this discussion presupposes that King is leaving because DC is unhappy with his formulation for a new direction. In the scenario where he's leaving to start Batman and Catwoman (or whatever) as a new semi-limited series (think: Batman, Inc or B&R), DC is in favor of King's new direction and the main Batman title wouldn't have to address it any more than the new writer wanted.[/QUOTE]
True. I guess I’d hope that it’s addressed just so people get some form of closure. Assuming he isn’t doing another title that deals with it. Which to me, wouldn’t make sense. Why leave the title to go finish the storyline in a different title? I think him leaving indicates that they want him off of Batman completely which should then lead to the next writer wrapping this up. I could be way off though. Who knows? We’re all just going to have to wait and see.
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[QUOTE=Talon1load;4369802]Dido isn’t a fan of heroes being married. Did you really think they would end up married at the end of this? That ship sailed with issue 50. Trying to do it in another’s year or two is way too little too late. He actually made their relationship pretty unbearable for a lot of people. I used to love the idea of them together but King killed that for me. He has no idea how to write a relationship. He can’t even figure out how two normal people talk to each other or interact. I think you’d have been disappointed if he had stayed for the full run.[/QUOTE]
Was it ever established anywhere that Batman and Catwoman were normal people?
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[QUOTE=protege;4370018]Was it ever established anywhere that Batman and Catwoman were normal people?[/QUOTE]
Huh? Who said anything about them being normal?
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[QUOTE=Talon1load;4370009]True. I guess I’d hope that it’s addressed just so people get some form of closure. Assuming he isn’t doing another title that deals with it. Which to me, wouldn’t make sense. Why leave the title to go finish the storyline in a different title? I think him leaving indicates that they want him off of Batman completely which should then lead to the next writer wrapping this up. I could be way off though. Who knows? We’re all just going to have to wait and see.[/QUOTE]
I'm not overly concerned that the story will seem unfinished. Beyond the fact that he's got at least five issues he hasn't written at all, and more than that that could be (at least slightly?) rewritten before all the art starts coming in to wrap up the story, we've seen DC give Tomasi and Jurgens oversized last issues to complete their runs on Superman titles when Bendis's arrival cut their runs short. I'm confident that however it goes down, Tom King's Batman run (character, not title) will feel completed (even if a bit rushed). I respect that some people won't share my confidence and panic a bit, but this is not a comparable situation to other creative team shakeups where a writer leaves mid-arc (see, for fun and frustration, the Hobgoblin saga under Stern, DeFalco, Priest, and David).
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[QUOTE=bob/.schoonover;4370035]I'm not overly concerned that the story will seem unfinished. Beyond the fact that he's got at least five issues he hasn't written at all, and more than that that could be (at least slightly?) rewritten before all the art starts coming in to wrap up the story, we've seen DC give Tomasi and Jurgens oversized last issues to complete their runs on Superman titles when Bendis's arrival cut their runs short. I'm confident that however it goes down, Tom King's Batman run (character, not title) will feel completed (even if a bit rushed). I respect that some people won't share my confidence and panic a bit, but this is not a comparable situation to other creative team shakeups where a writer leaves mid-arc (see, for fun and frustration, the Hobgoblin saga under Stern, DeFalco, Priest, and David).[/QUOTE]
just today I ended my reading of ASM 275,276 & 278-281. I know what's coming when Priest (then Owsley) and David end that "mistery" haha until stern came back years later to "fix it". I have yet to read those issues, so I'm commenting on how the Hobgbolin Saga was handled under different writers from interviews and reports I've read, not judging the quality of those issues
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[QUOTE=Talon1load;4369802]Dido isn’t a fan of heroes being married. Did you really think they would end up married at the end of this? That ship sailed with issue 50. Trying to do it in another’s year or two is way too little too late. He actually made their relationship pretty unbearable for a lot of people. I used to love the idea of them together but King killed that for me. He has no idea how to write a relationship. He can’t even figure out how two normal people talk to each other or interact. I think you’d have been disappointed if he had stayed for the full run.[/QUOTE]
That's basically my feelings too. I'm sad for the fans of this run, but honestly, it's better to boot him before he does truly lasting damage to Batman and his myhtos (what he did can still be reversed rather easily) like he has done to the Flash's and Booster Gold.
Honestly, reflecting back on the whole thing, I think it's clear that King can't write an angoing series nor A-list characters. He's excellent for mini-series like Vision and Mister Miracle, which use very peculiar B-list characters who can perfectly fit to his themes. But everytime he touched an A-list, I dreaded the outcome. It went to the point that every appearance of my favorite in his book made me want to have them in limbo instead. Hopefully, characters he utterly butchered like Flashpoint Batman or Gotham-Girl will be returned to their rightful place (non-existence in the Main Universe for the former, dead for the latter - because she just can't be salvaged anymore) by the end of his run.
But I'm not sure that King will even care about cleaning the place after trashing it so much.
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[QUOTE=Talon1load;4369763]King leaving doesn’t mean there won’t be a resolution to the Batman/Catwoman relationship. It just might have less Bat/Cat crap and be written in a way that makes even a little sense and without Catgod and Batdumbass. This could be the best thing to happen to their relationship since this whole debacle started.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Korath;4370424]That's basically my feelings too. I'm sad for the fans of this run, but honestly, it's better to boot him before he does truly lasting damage to Batman and his myhtos (what he did can still be reversed rather easily) like he has done to the Flash's and Booster Gold.
Honestly, reflecting back on the whole thing, I think it's clear that King can't write an angoing series nor A-list characters. He's excellent for mini-series like Vision and Mister Miracle, which use very peculiar B-list characters who can perfectly fit to his themes. But everytime he touched an A-list, I dreaded the outcome. It went to the point that every appearance of my favorite in his book made me want to have them in limbo instead. Hopefully, characters he utterly butchered like Flashpoint Batman or Gotham-Girl will be returned to their rightful place (non-existence in the Main Universe for the former, dead for the latter - because she just can't be salvaged anymore) by the end of his run.
But I'm not sure that King will even care about cleaning the place after trashing it so much.[/QUOTE]
Okay.
You guys have your own thread to bash King. I appreciate Korath offering commiseration, but most of the fans in this thread, while not agreeing with all of King's choices, don't think that what he's been doing is dumbass or damage or a debacle.
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Just a thought. Yesterday Detective #1004 and Action #1011 both came out. Detective is shipping twice monthly, Action monthly. If they stay on that schedule, Detective will catch up to Action with #1018, at the end of December 2019.
I could imagine DC deciding that it doesn’t want Detective to pass Action. So if that were true, DC would revert Detective to monthly shipping in.. wait for it... January 2020.
That could be seen as an ideal time to relaunch Batman on a monthly schedule as well.
So January 2020 - Detective #1019, Batman #1 with a new creative team, and Batman & Catwoman #1 continuing King’s story. DC gets two new #1s, King’s story comes to its natural conclusion, and the main Batman title gets a sales boost and a more corporate-friendly direction. Everyone wins.
Worth noting that both Morrison’s and Snyder’s runs ended in books other than the flagship Batman title. It’s almost a tradition at this point.
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Since Snyder's last Batman story is an elseworld, we can assume the final arc of King's run could be an elseworld also, thus allowing DC to continue keeping Bruce and Selina apart in their respective titles and moving them on from one another for now (because you know that relationship will be back eventually), while King gets to reunite and marry them off in his own world.
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[QUOTE=Miles To Go;4370752]Since Snyder's last Batman story is an elseworld, we can assume the final arc of King's run could be an elseworld also, thus allowing DC to continue keeping Bruce and Selina apart in their respective titles and moving them on from one another for now (because you know that relationship will be back eventually), while King gets to reunite and marry them off in his own world.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. It's less interesting from a longterm perspective, but I really hope that King at least gets to tell the ending.