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I see a lot of people here assuming Twitter, CG, and the daily life of writers and artists make it into the front page. It just doesn't. I can absolutely empathize with Lee because, until roughly 2 weeks ago when I offered a job to a well-known artist, I had no idea what CG was.
[QUOTE=Sacred Knight;5068861]To draw a cover I don't think he particularly needs to be up to date on anything. If he didn't know he didn't know. I'm not putting that on him. He's not in strong collaboration doing interiors or involved with the story in any more of a substantial way to my knowledge. So I don't think any onus is on him to learn anything about the particular gig. To each their own though.[/QUOTE]
Put it this way; imagine you're a computer engineer going to work for a small start up. Do you normally investigate your prospective employer much beyond, "Are they good to work for, will they pay me, what are my benefits" kind of things? Of course not. Unless you live for that stuff. And most people don't. Lee seems not to. So, is it incumbent on a job seeker to do that?
Jae Lee did absolutely nothing wrong.
And some of you are acting/thinking exactly like TK.
[QUOTE=Steel Inquisitor;5068990]I said in a previous post that King shouldn't have done that, they both not looking good here. How is Jae Lee "good" in this situation? He appears more upset that King told people he did a cover for a hate group, rather than being being upset that he wasn't told privately [B]and[/B] that he's upset his work is being represented by a hate group. And he knew that King doing was going to made him look bad yet not discuss why that was bad for business. The least he could do is openly condemn the hate group in question, it's not difficult.[/QUOTE]
He doesn’t owe anybody anything. He did art for a group without knowing what they were, found out and stopped. At that point the conversation with him was over.
Tom King without knowing what he was talking about ignorantly lambasted him claiming that he was part of and supported a group he was never part of and refused to do work for after he learned what the group was. So by lying about Lee being part of a group he wasn’t part of, Lee got lambasted by strangers and industry folks who ran with that irresponsible lie that misrepresents him.
He has every right to be upset that King ran to twitter like the bull in a China shop and made a bunch of untrue claims about him on a whim that got him harassed and labeled.
He’s the victim here. He doesn’t owe other people to coddle them for their mistake which only had a negative impact on him and his family.
[QUOTE=achilles;5069090]Put it this way; imagine you're a computer engineer going to work for a small start up. Do you normally investigate your prospective employer much beyond, "Are they good to work for, will they pay me, what are my benefits" kind of things? Of course not. Unless you live for that stuff. And most people don't. Lee seems not to. So, is it incumbent on a job seeker to do that?[/QUOTE]
The part is that Lee actually did eventually find out and stopped doing art for them. So when it did became a question of values for him he made the right choice. The only thing you can “criticize” him for is not knowing who he did some art for. But that’s not what King criticized him for. He falsely accused him of being a member of a hate group
[QUOTE=KNIGHT OF THE LAKE;5069113]He doesn’t owe anybody anything. He did art for a group without knowing what they were, found out and stopped. At that point the conversation with him was over.
Tom King without knowing what he was talking about ignorantly lambasted him claiming that he was part of and supported a group he was never part of and refused to do work for after he learned what the group was. So by lying about Lee being part of a group he wasn’t part of, Lee got lambasted by strangers and industry folks who ran with that irresponsible lie that misrepresents him.
He has every right to be upset that King ran to twitter like the bull in a China shop and made a bunch of untrue claims about him on a whim that got him harassed and labeled.
He’s the victim here. He doesn’t owe other people to coddle them for their mistake which only had a negative impact on him and his family.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/73/db/51/73db51a6fce40b29d60ae525e1558cae.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=KNIGHT OF THE LAKE;5069113]He doesn’t owe anybody anything. He did art for a group without knowing what they were, found out and stopped. At that point the conversation with him was over.
Tom King without knowing what he was talking about ignorantly lambasted him claiming that he was part of and supported a group he was never part of and refused to do work for after he learned what the group was. So by lying about Lee being part of a group he wasn’t part of, Lee got lambasted by strangers and industry folks who ran with that irresponsible lie that misrepresents him.
He has every right to be upset that King ran to twitter like the bull in a China shop and made a bunch of untrue claims about him on a whim that got him harassed and labeled.
He’s the victim here. He doesn’t owe other people to coddle them for their mistake which only had a negative impact on him and his family.[/QUOTE]
He stopped the conversation, he didn't say anything about stopping doing work for EVS. EVS and the group he's in were barely implied in the conversation and were not disavowed by him. Why would the conversation be over? Shouldn't he want to find out about this group now he knows about it? How will he know which other people in the field to avoid if he's not talking to anyone about it?
Nobody's defending what King did as right.
Except this isn't just about him and his family, it's about his entire field and numerous people from professionals and fans being harassed for just working and participating in it. That statement didn't support them, it simply told them to leave him out of it - when he put himself in it. King didn't force him to work with EVS, he did that himself. This what kicked this off.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN9u_VjX4AAROqN.jpg[/img]
This was linked to Comicsgate by EVS with a tweet.
[url]https://twitter.com/EthanVanSciver/status/1215812463628779521[/url]
[quote] Jae Lee #Cyberfrog REKT PLANET cover B. Colors by
@deafcolorist
#COMICSGATE[/quote]
Variant cover for Cyberfrog #4. Do you think he was right to fulfil this commission for EVS?
[quote]The part is that Lee actually did eventually find out and stopped doing art for them. So when it did became a question of values for him he made the right choice. The only thing you can “criticize” him for is not knowing who he did some art for. But that’s not what King criticized him for. He falsely accused him of being a member of a hate group[/quote]
This is King's tweet.
[quote]Today DC put out an alternate cover to Rorschach by Jae Lee, [B]who has also done covers for[/B] comicsgate, a hate group. DC does not consult creators on alternate covers; I reached out to them to express my deep disappointment. Far as I’m concerned this is the cover to Rorschach #1.[/quote]
He never said Jae Lee was a member of it, he just did cover for EVS - who, of course, was using it for the hate group.
[QUOTE=Steel Inquisitor;5069139]He stopped the conversation, he didn't say anything about stopping doing work for EVS. EVS and the group he's in were barely implied in the conversation and were not disavowed by him.[/QUOTE]
EVS and his group were not mentioned by Gail Simone in her recent statement. Is she a CG? Of course not.
[QUOTE=Steel Inquisitor;5069139]Why would the conversation be over? [/QUOTE]
Maybe because he is not prone to explaining himself to others for every little thing he does?
[QUOTE=Steel Inquisitor;5069139]Shouldn't he want to find out about this group now he knows about it? How will he know which other people in the field to avoid if he's not talking to anyone about it[/QUOTE]
Why would anyone want to spend hours and hours and hours going over hateful speech, and what not, to see with whom potentially to work in a hypothetical future that might never come to pass, after all?
In the words of Gail Simon: "I know a lot of people want me to be angry. But mostly I just feel sad."
[QUOTE=SebastianS;5069157]EVS and his group were not mentioned by Gail Simone in her recent statement. Is she a CG? Of course not.
Simone cut all ties with Dynamite once she knew about their link to the group, she even stopped doing a charity book with them.
Maybe because he is not prone to explaining himself to others for every little thing he does?
Nobody ended to explain what was going on, because she listened to what was going on around her.
[quote]Why would anyone want to spend hours and hours and hours going over hateful speech, and what not, to see with whom potentially to work in a hypothetical future that might never come to pass, after all?
[/quote]
His career's on the line here, and this is a third rail in the industry. Why wouldn't it up again, how's he going to tell another CG artist from someone who isn't? EVS isn't the only artist in the industry in that group, he's just most well known and he still went under Jae Lee's radar.
[quote]In the words of Gail Simon: "I know a lot of people want me to be angry. But mostly I just feel sad."[/QUOTE]
Cant keep up the anger with people she's spent her entire career fighting with. She was fighting with misogynists in comics since she started at CBR.
[QUOTE=achilles;5069090]Put it this way; imagine you're a computer engineer going to work for a small start up. Do you normally investigate your prospective employer much beyond, "Are they good to work for, will they pay me, what are my benefits" kind of things? Of course not. Unless you live for that stuff. And most people don't. Lee seems not to. [B] So, is it incumbent on a job seeker to do that?[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually it is. You are generally told to research the company you want to work for in most job training classes. Including work climate and culture if possible.
It's why certain folks have never went to this company or Marvel because research saw "certain" employees made a toxic environment.
Some of that stuff was well known and never talked about and others was out in the open.
[QUOTE]I see a lot of people here assuming Twitter, CG, and the daily life of writers and artists make it into the front page. It just doesn't. I can absolutely empathize with Lee because, until roughly 2 weeks ago when I offered a job to a well-known artist, I had no idea what CG was.[/QUOTE]
The antics of that group are limited to Twitter and youtube. A lot of folks don't know who they are.
[QUOTE]His career's on the line here[/QUOTE]
Bingo most folks would stay silent until you mess with their money.
Remember New 52 Static Shock? John Rozsum was going to stay silent about why he left until fans made it clear they were not going to support him over what he "did" to Static.
That is when he started talking and made it clear that only the name of Static's school was the only thing he left in that book from him. All that mess in the book was from Scott McDaniel and Harvey Richards. Notice both are no longer at DC.
[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;5069208]Actually it is. You are generally told to research the company you want to work for in most job training classes. Including work climate and culture if possible.
It's why certain folks have never went to this company or Marvel because research saw "certain" employees made a toxic environment.
Some of that stuff was well known and never talked about and others was out in the open.
The antics of that group are limited to Twitter and youtube. A lot of folks don't know who they are.
Bingo most folks would stay silent until you mess with their money.
Remember New 52 Static Shock? John Rozsum was going to stay silent about why he left until fans made it clear they were not going to support him over what he "did" to Static.
That is when he started talking and made it clear that only the name of Static's school was the only thing he left in that book from him. All that mess in the book was from Scott McDaniel and Harvey Richards. Notice both are no longer at DC.[/QUOTE]
No, it isn't. You research the company for things you expect to impact you, not things like that. Unless you are somewhat...unusual. Lee, like most, was looking for a paying gig. That's all. Since he likely did it remotely, all he really would be concerned by would be "an I going to get paid, when, and how much."
[QUOTE=KNIGHT OF THE LAKE;5069113]He doesn’t owe anybody anything. He did art for a group without knowing what they were, found out and stopped. At that point the conversation with him was over.
Tom King without knowing what he was talking about ignorantly lambasted him claiming that he was part of and supported a group he was never part of and refused to do work for after he learned what the group was. So by lying about Lee being part of a group he wasn’t part of, Lee got lambasted by strangers and industry folks who ran with that irresponsible lie that misrepresents him.
He has every right to be upset that King ran to twitter like the bull in a China shop and made a bunch of untrue claims about him on a whim that got him harassed and labeled.
He’s the victim here. He doesn’t owe other people to coddle them for their mistake which only had a negative impact on him and his family.[/QUOTE]
100% with you on this.
the TK apologists are showing their colours...and they are not pretty.
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5069288]100% with you on this.
the TK apologists are showing their colours...and they are not pretty.[/QUOTE]
You know it's possible to find both to be in the wrong.
Both Lee and King should have done better research on the people they were working with.
With respect to Lee...No. For all the reasons that have already been astutely stated.
[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;5067369]He's not a relic of a bygone age-others have and are still doing the same thing.
It's just that his resume (along with McDuffie's) paints a bigger picture.
No one has asked who are these companies scared of to let guys like Priest be the main writer for books like Batman or Superman.
That is why Priest left the industry. They were tired of this is all you can do. While see other guys get top books in less than 2-3 years or some keep getting book after book despite low sales and ZERO acclaim.
While he made sellers out of Black Panther, Steel, The Ray and Martian Manhunter. Made Wallace West interesting. Yet not good enough for the A listers. Never mind he has written every single one of them in the past.[/QUOTE]
What does any of that have to do with this?