Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

Since the DC Films thread has become dominated by this stuff, let's just give the whole $#!*show it's own thread. This way, the DC Films thread can get back to doing what it does best--arguing about Man of Steel and BvS ;)

I kid, I kid.

Seriously, with the latest comments by Mamoa, it's looking very likely that lots of heads are going to be put on chopping blocks over the next year. Given how much money Aquaman made, I think Mamoa is in a pretty safe position to handle whatever they throw at him. It's not like they're going to not make Aquaman 2 or recast him. Getting Gadot and Mamoa as Wonder Woman and Aquaman was like catching lightning in a bottle. Even Hollywood isn't stupid enough to throw that away.

[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;5145056]Since the DC Films thread has become dominated by this stuff, let's just give the whole $#!*show it's own thread. This way, the DC Films thread can get back to doing what it does best--arguing about Man of Steel and BvS ;)

I kid, I kid.

Seriously, with the latest comments by Mamoa, it's looking very likely that lots of heads are going to be put on chopping blocks over the next year. Given how much money Aquaman made, I think Mamoa is in a pretty safe position to handle whatever they throw at him. It's not like they're going to not make Aquaman 2 or recast him. Getting Gadot and Mamoa as Wonder Woman and Aquaman was like catching lightning in a bottle. Even Hollywood isn't stupid enough to throw that away.[/QUOTE]

I think you over estimate Hollywood/corporate bureaucracy. I doubt anything serious will come from this.

[QUOTE=Jekyll;5145350]I think you over estimate Hollywood/corporate bureaucracy. I doubt anything serious will come from this.[/QUOTE]

Seriously. Looks like very small potatoes so far.

[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;5145056]Since the DC Films threadhas become [B] dominated by this stuff, let's just give the whole $#!*show[/B] it's own thread.[/QUOTE]

So you decided to spread it over here too! LOL!

[QUOTE=The Darknight Detective;5145376]Seriously. Looks like very small potatoes so far.[/QUOTE]

Yes, **** treatment isn't specific enough. Now, if Fisher start making acusations of racism, for example, then things will get serious. But I have a question, all of this happened while they were filming, shouldn't they have tons of footage that can show waht happened?

[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;5145056]Since the DC Films thread has become dominated by this stuff, let's just give the whole $#!*show it's own thread. This way, the DC Films thread can get back to doing what it does best--arguing about Man of Steel and BvS ;)

I kid, I kid.

Seriously, with the latest comments by Mamoa, it's looking very likely that lots of heads are going to be put on chopping blocks over the next year. Given how much money Aquaman made, I think Mamoa is in a pretty safe position to handle whatever they throw at him. It's not like they're going to not make Aquaman 2 or recast him. Getting Gadot and Mamoa as Wonder Woman and Aquaman was like catching lightning in a bottle. Even Hollywood isn't stupid enough to throw that away.[/QUOTE]

Do not underestimate the skill Warner Brothers have for turning a silk purse into a pigs ear... they’ve a track record going back decades on doing so.

[QUOTE=Ra-El;5145418]Yes, **** treatment isn't specific enough. Now, if Fisher start making acusations of racism, for example, then things will get serious. But I have a question, all of this happened while they were filming, shouldn't they have tons of footage that can show waht happened?[/QUOTE]

Footage owned by WB, Fisher would need to legally obtain it but to do that requires suing WB and he hasn't reached that stage yet. It's understandable since he's the underdog, but it's puzzling why he's going so hard and so fast without clarity or filing a lawsuit by now. Maybe he wants Whedon, Berg or WB to sue him first? It's difficult to tell since Fisher's holding all his cards to his vest it's impossible to know where he truly stands.

[QUOTE=Steel Inquisitor;5145440]Footage owned by WB, Fisher would need to legally obtain it but to do that requires suing WB and he hasn't reached that stage yet. It's understandable since he's the underdog, but it's puzzling why he's going so hard and so fast without clarity or filing a lawsuit by now. Maybe he wants Whedon, Berg or WB to sue him first? It's difficult to tell since Fisher's holding all his cards to his vest it's impossible to know where he truly stands.[/QUOTE]

I believe that, while Fisher feels that he was mistreated, he also knows that nothing actually illegal happened, so he is only accusing Wheadon of abusive behaviour and Geoff, Johns and the other producer of enabling him.

But the problems is that abusive behaviour can mean many different things, and I think Fisher should be more clear about what happened, once the public knows what he went through, he can get more support.

Honestly the fact that a major star came to Fisher’s defense and that WB faked a movie just loses WB the benefit of the doubt. Whedon has also had issues in the past (which I got blasted for bringing up in another thread) so this isn’t out of character for him. We can talk about him berating a star on one show for making his character too popular, at least two actresses being deceived with a script and then blindsided after they agreed to take the role, we can talk about Charisma Carpentar on Angel and how she felt Joss kinda a created a hostile work environment. We can talk about the rumors of the whole Ezra and Gal breast landing thing that nobody involved denies. And now Mamoa is saying **** went down.

Like right now WB has a credibility issue and Whedon isn’t exactly some guy with a spotless record that it’s unfair to question.

[QUOTE=Ra-El;5145462]I believe that, while Fisher feels that he was mistreated, he also knows that nothing actually illegal happened, so he is only accusing Wheadon of abusive behaviour and Geoff, Johns and the other producer of enabling him.

But the problems is that abusive behaviour can mean many different things, and I think Fisher should be more clear about what happened, once the public knows what he went through, he can get more support.[/QUOTE]

Until and unless he and Mamoa come out with whatever it is they're actually on about, it could be anything from Whedon and company not filling their likely promises, or his own desire to be a big star with his own movies, or it could be actual "abusive" behavior. Of course, that can be rather subjective. And given the typical behavior in Hollywood from directors and others high up in a film's food chain, he'd have to have something pretty severe to do anything.

My guess, since neither of them have made any specific claims or sued, (AFAIK), whatever complaint they have amounts to nothing actionable, and they know it.

[QUOTE=KNIGHT OF THE LAKE;5145537]Honestly the fact that a major star came to Fisher’s defense and that WB faked a movie just loses WB the benefit of the doubt. Whedon has also had issues in the past (which I got blasted for bringing up in another thread) so this isn’t out of character for him. We can talk about him berating a star on one show for making his character too popular, at least two actresses being deceived with a script and then blindsided after they agreed to take the role, we can talk about Charisma Carpentar on Angel and how she felt Joss kinda a created a hostile work environment. We can talk about the rumors of the whole Ezra and Gal breast landing thing that nobody involved denies. And now Mamoa is saying **** went down.

Like right now WB has a credibility issue and Whedon isn’t exactly some guy with a spotless record that it’s unfair to question.[/QUOTE]

Of course, being a **** boss and creating a "hostile work environment", whatever that means, isn't illegal. And it is in fact the standard operating procedure of some of Hollywood's most famous and loved directors, who might give either Fisher or Mamoa lessons in what "hostile work environment" really means. From some of histories most lauded films.

Doesn't make outright abuse okay, but it does suggest they're not going to get much traction with that unless they get much more specific with some pretty grim details. All this coy stuff they're doing sounds wrong though.

[QUOTE=Ra-El;5145418]Yes, **** treatment isn't specific enough. Now, if Fisher start making acusations of racism, for example, then things will get serious. But I have a question, all of this happened while they were filming, shouldn't they have tons of footage that can show waht happened?[/QUOTE]

Why would they? They film what's in front of the camera, not behind. And only when shooting starts; they're not filming all the time.

Moma backing Fisher is definitely a game-changer. He has some leverage.

And while I've seen plenty of people dismiss this as "nothing [I]really[/I] bad happened, they were probably just mean like sometimes happens in Hollywood," I personally would back Momoa and Fisher even if that's all it turned out to be. **** normalizing toxic workplace behavior. Even in supposedly glamorous well-paying jobs, employers have an obscene amount of control over employees and regularly take advantage of that.

[QUOTE=achilles;5145555]Of course, being a **** boss and creating a "hostile work environment", whatever that means, isn't illegal. And it is in fact the standard operating procedure of some of Hollywood's most famous and loved directors, who might give either Fisher or Mamoa lessons in what "hostile work environment" really means. From some of histories most lauded films.
[/QUOTE]

The phrase "hostile work environment" actually does refer to a legal standard. Federal law requires a coupling of harassment and discrimination based on a protected category, though California law seems to make it even easier to bring a claim. The discrimination doesn't have to be super blatant if, in the totality of the circumstances, the harassment was severe. The devil is in the details, and we don't have those yet.

[QUOTE=Lightning Rider;5145633]The phrase "hostile work environment" actually does refer to a legal standard. Federal law requires a coupling of harassment and discrimination based on a protected category, though California law seems to make it even easier to bring a claim. The discrimination doesn't have to be super blatant if, in the totality of the circumstances, the harassment was severe. The devil is in the details, and we don't have those yet.[/QUOTE]

Which is indeed the crux of it. No details. They could be talking about many things, from disappointment to a thoughtless Whedon and company, to much worse versions of them, to Bryan Singer territory. But they haven't said, though they were talking about it months ago. Why wait? Why not say? It just seems a bit off, with them not revealing any details about what they're alleging. It also seems a bit unfair, charging Whedon and the others in the court of public opinion...without even saying exactly what they're upset about, and thus depriving him and the others of any way to defend themselves. Or address the allegations at all.

Honestly, Fisher and Mamoa could change all that in an instant by providing details, and any collaborating evidence they may have. Filing a suit would help too, if their complaint rises to a civil level, or making any criminal allegations to relevant authorities. Then we all could judge for ourselves, and Fisher and Mamoa could start a process to rectify whatever their complaint is.

On a side note, I would assume they've made details of their complaint known to WB at least.