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[QUOTE=Kevinroc;6043627]Chip Zdarsky was offered ASM and turned it down. He took Batman instead. Batman is not a character known for lack of editorial interference.
We also know Spider-Man: Beyond was Nick Lowe's idea.
These are... some pretty strong indicators of editorial asserting its control over the Spider-line. I would not say that's a good thing.[/QUOTE]
He explained it pretty well, too.
[QUOTE]"I guess I shouldn't say 'never,' but I can't picture the scenario where I'd take that job," Zdarsky said in an AMA on Reddit, in response to a fan asking about a potential run on Marvel's premier comic series. "It just seems to be a ludicrous amount of work for a readership that has too many specific ideas of what should happen, and get too angry when their expectations aren't met. Maybe I'd get to a place in my life where I could handle it, but it sure isn't right now."[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Tendrin;6043649]He explained it pretty well, too.[/QUOTE]
Honestly can't blame him. Between an angry readership and a demanding editorial department, who would take that job?
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[QUOTE=Kevinroc;6043658]Honestly can't blame him. Between an angry readership and a demanding editorial department, who would take that job?[/QUOTE]
I mean, we can blame editorial, but I think you don't need to look further than the vitriol directed at nearly every spider-writer for decades now.
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[QUOTE=Tendrin;6043668]I mean, we can blame editorial, but I think you don't need to look further than the vitriol directed at nearly every spider-writer for decades now.[/QUOTE]
Spider-Man Beyond wasn't Wells' idea. It was editorial's. An editorial department that is so bereft of ideas that they troll people who like Peter x MJ and bring Dan Slott back to do another Spider-Verse event.
Yes, the readership is angry. And yes, they can absolutely take it too far.
But what if they have a point?
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Yeah, with kids being a big theme of Wells' run, I can see Annie or Mayday crossing over to 616, especially if the Spider-Verse is being wiped. I bet RYV Peter and MJ could be killed off so we're left with a 'dysfunctional family' with the core Peter and MJ being on the rocks and Annie or Mayday being angry at them for not getting their acts together and also sees them dealing with 'siblings' in the kids MJ now looks after.
We'll get the Spider-Man family and 'parental responsibility' we've always wanted to see for the 60th, but as always it's monkey pawed.
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[QUOTE=Matt Rat;6043703].[/QUOTE]
You bring up nightmare scenarios that I might be interested in. Put alternate universe Peter/MJ temporarily out of commission and let 616 Peter/MJ raise those kids for however long the writers will tolerate them. Yesss
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[QUOTE=Kevinroc;6043672]Spider-Man Beyond wasn't Wells' idea. It was editorial's. An editorial department that is so bereft of ideas that they troll people who like Peter x MJ and bring Dan Slott back to do another Spider-Verse event.
Yes, the readership is angry. And yes, they can absolutely take it too far.
But what if they have a point?[/QUOTE]
The readership isn't a monolith. Some of them want irreconcilable things. Some fans want Peter & MJ back together as a childless couple. Some fans want them to have kids. Some fans want Peter to be with the Black Cat. Some fans want Peter retired so that Miles can get more focus.
Regardless of what people want, they shouldn't be jerks about it. And if someone else is a jerk, they should be called out.
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[QUOTE=Lunala;6043752]You bring up nightmare scenarios that I might be interested in. Put alternate universe Peter/MJ temporarily out of commission and let 616 Peter/MJ raise those kids for however long the writers will tolerate them. Yesss[/QUOTE]
I doubt the Spider-Verse is going away 'forever', but for a few years it allows Spider-Man to have it's own 'Post-Crisis' era that creates mew avenues for drama and actually gives the fans and editorial their own cakes to eat and have too. Fans get Peter and MJ 'parenting', but they still have to put up with Marvel getting the will they/won't they drama, but because they 'aren't married' and are looking after variants of kids happier, healthier versions of them have raised, it challenges the pair of them and doesn't risk 'aging them' with their own kids. It gives them experience with kids and 'prepares' them for something that editorial may never pursue.
I also doubt Marvel have been too happy with the fact so many of these alternate universes that exist have been touted for years by fans as being ideal jumping off points for the brand because they all have happy endings for Peter and MJ. What's the point of having 616 around when people can point to this, that, or this as a more preferable option, regardless of it's canonicity?
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[QUOTE=Matt Rat;6043854]I also doubt Marvel have been too happy with the fact so many of these alternate universes that exist have been touted for years by fans as being ideal jumping off points for the brand because they all have happy endings for Peter and MJ. What's the point of having 616 around when people can point to this, that, or this as a more preferable option, regardless of it's canonicity?[/QUOTE]
I think Marvel are happy if their comics are selling. They make money from all of them. They wouldn't publish them if they didn't want anyone to buy them and get invested in them.
Regardless, Amazing Spider-Man almost always outsells alternate universe Spider-man comics, such as the Renew Your Vows ongoing series.
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[QUOTE=Tendrin;6043649]He explained it pretty well, too.[/QUOTE]
I feel like people miss this part:
[I][B]"It just seems to be a ludicrous amount of work for a readership that has too many specific ideas of what should happen, and get too angry when their expectations aren't met."[/B][/I]
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People who take things too far always earn their criticism, of course. Still, blaming the audience never looks great on authors.
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[QUOTE=Tendrin;6043668]I mean, we can blame editorial, but I think you don't need to look further than the vitriol directed at nearly every spider-writer for decades now.[/QUOTE]
“Cry me a River” for the writers. While there are fanatics who did stuff like death threats to Dan Slott ( something always unacceptable), no one is putting a gun to people’s heads and saying you must write Spider-Man. This is no different then playing for the Yankees. Why? You know damn well, about the fan base and corporate expectations, and the risk/reward factor. The reality is neither Spider-Man or the Yankees are for everyone. It is that simple.
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[QUOTE=Matt Rat;6043703]Yeah, with kids being a big theme of Wells' run, I can see Annie or Mayday crossing over to 616, especially if the Spider-Verse is being wiped. I bet RYV Peter and MJ could be killed off so we're left with a 'dysfunctional family' with the core Peter and MJ being on the rocks and Annie or Mayday being angry at them for not getting their acts together and also sees them dealing with 'siblings' in the kids MJ now looks after.
We'll get the Spider-Man family and 'parental responsibility' we've always wanted to see for the 60th, but as always it's monkey pawed.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, I can’t see them bringing over Annie or Mayday to 616, between them reverting Anya and people constantly complaining about the number of characters with the same theme, they might find it too redundant to add another spider to 616.
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[QUOTE=Mister Mets;6043817]The readership isn't a monolith. Some of them want irreconcilable things. Some fans want Peter & MJ back together as a childless couple. Some fans want them to have kids. Some fans want Peter to be with the Black Cat. Some fans want Peter retired so that Miles can get more focus.
Regardless of what people want, they shouldn't be jerks about it. And if someone else is a jerk, they should be called out.[/QUOTE]
I never condoned such behavior, and feel like the overall focus on it serves as little more than a distraction from discussions around the problems facing Spider-Man comics today.
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[QUOTE=Tendrin;6043668]I mean, we can blame editorial, but I think you don't need to look further than the vitriol directed at nearly every spider-writer for decades now.[/QUOTE]
Funny how that “vitriol” (because for every fan who expresses displeasure, there is usually a fan who sings praises but funny how some only concentrate on the negative) usually coincides with Marvel doing its best to break the characters and their world: Clone Saga, OMD, BND, OMIT, incompetent manchild Peter, etc.
Maybe if Marvel wasn’t so determined to keep a wholly editorially forced character status that is the root cause for the “vitriol” they would see less justified fan displeasure.