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[QUOTE=Celgress;4018671]What does this have to do with me wanting a little Peter/Felicia romantic interaction to freshen things up? Black Cat and Spidey haven't been a thing far longer than ten years.[/QUOTE]
They were a thing in BND.
[IMG]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/26896/APR100695_1._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Kevinroc;4018673]They were a thing in BND.[/QUOTE]
More a tease than a thing. I wouldn't mind seeing a multi-issue storyline where they got back together, but that's just me.
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[QUOTE=Celgress;4018681]More a tease than a thing. I wouldn't mind seeing a multi-issue storyline where they got back together, but that's just me.[/QUOTE]
The fact is they were a thing in continuity before we saw Peter/MJ reconcile (RYV being an exception). If 10 years without Peter/MJ isn't long enough, then no amount of time would be long enough.
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[QUOTE=Kevinroc;4018684]The fact is they were a thing in continuity before we saw Peter/MJ reconcile (RYV being an exception). If 10 years without Peter/MJ isn't long enough, then no amount of time would be long enough.[/QUOTE]
I see those ten years as being wasted. It isn't quantity but quality. Peter basically had no love life during that period save for a few throwaway flings. Alas, so much more could have been done.
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[QUOTE=Celgress;4018691]I see those ten years as being wasted. It isn't quantity but quality. Peter basically had no love life during that period save for a few throwaway flings. Alas, so much more could have been done.[/QUOTE]
I think we saw how much "potential" Peter's love life actually has when you take MJ out of the equation.
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[QUOTE=Kevinroc;4018696]I think we saw how much "potential" Peter's love life actually has when you take MJ out of the equation.[/QUOTE]
I disagree as I could have done much better than what we saw (even with my limited creativity); Felicia, Cindy, Gwen (a version of Spider-Gwen or a clone), Carol, Jennifer, heck even Betty or an engaging new character could have each proven very interesting options if correctly plotted.
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[QUOTE=Kevinroc;4018644]Venom and Carnage are probably the biggest characters to come after Stan left Spider-Man. They fill a role in Spidey's world that wasn't already there. But creating characters like that is easier said than done.
The role you are advocating for Felicia as Spidey's main squeeze already exists. MJ fills that role. (And there will be a time where she and Peter will break up because comics, but then she will get back together with Peter again because comics.)[/QUOTE]
I think Felicia fits the role of as close as you can get to giving Spidey a Superhero love interest and sidekick that you can't really do with other character as well (I think it's telling that other superpowered love interests Peter have had have all ended up calling him "Spider" at some point).
I'm not saying that makes her worthy of being Peter's main love interest, but as far as alternatives go I think she ranks higher then Gwen by this point.
[QUOTE=Kevinroc;4018673]They were a thing in BND.
[IMG]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/26896/APR100695_1._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
They were also not really written all that well back then :p.
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[QUOTE=Celgress;4018656]I never said Felicia should necessarily be "Spidey's main squeeze" rather that there is an opportunity now (post-OMD) to examine other romantic relationships for Peter. Why not take advantage of the fact Spider-Man is no longer tied down romantically to explore pairings other than Peter/MJ? Frankly, and some people will likely hate me for saying this, I find 616 Peter/MJ kind of boring much of the time.[/quote]
They tried exploring new interests. Nobody cared
[QUOTE=Celgress;4018656]Frankly, and some people will likely hate me for saying this, I find 616 Peter/MJ kind of boring much of the time. More often than not their adventures while married were lackluster and [B]consisted of him saving her or keeping her out of harm's way much of their time together[/B].[/QUOTE]
..Ok, this is a clear exaggeration. You're just being a contrarian at this point.
Frankly, with how great you are at writing Peter/MJ in your fanfiction, I expected you to know better than this.
[QUOTE=Kevinroc;4018664]They had 10 years with no Peter/MJ. (Those few months of RYV during Secret Wars being an exception.)[/QUOTE]
The newspaper strip is a Marvel product and that kept them married all decade. Peter/MJ never went away.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;4018744]I think Felicia fits the role of as close as you can get to giving Spidey a Superhero love interest and sidekick that you can't really do with other character as well (I think it's telling that other superpowered love interests Peter have had have all ended up calling him "Spider" at some point).
I'm not saying that makes her worthy of being Peter's main love interest, but as far as alternatives go I think she ranks higher then Gwen by this point.
They were also not really written all that well back then :p.[/QUOTE]
It still doesn't change that Spider-Man/Black Cat is still a poor man's Batman/Catwoman. :p
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[QUOTE=KB06;4018360]Ugh. If I wanted to read another lengthy story arc centered around Peter and Mary Jane "going steady," I'd pick up [I]Renew Your Vows[/I]. There are plenty of previous issues, alternate timelimes, and media featuring Peter and MJ's relationship. I find myself questioning why I'm following a narrative with a seemingly foretold conclusion.
Reconciling the differences between Spider-Man and Black Cat while restoring the relationship between Peter and Felicia seemed like the more compelling route. Instead, the Black Cat character has been mishandled for six years and Felicia cannot recall the identity of Peter as Spider-Man. There's a reason Black Cat has remained a popular character beside Spider-Man despite the mischaracterization. I suppose it's a matter of personal preference/opinion, but I was hoping for a fresh, suspenseful storyline.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Celgress;4018392]I must agree with you. I don't see the point of "reuniting" Peter & MJ after all the trouble those in charge of Marvel went through a decade ago to push them apart in the first place. Ever since OMD we've had nothing but missed opportunities to explore other Spider-Man romantic relationships. I'd say the biggest squandered opportunity has been Peter/Felicia (because of the atrocious Queenpin of Crime storyline). Can't Peter and Felicia date for a while to freshen things up? Why would that be such a bad thing?[/QUOTE]
Co-sign, co-signing these posts all day.
[QUOTE=Kevinroc;4018610]Because characters tend not to take on a big role after their original creator has left a title. Felicia is something of an exception, but she runs into the problem that Mary Jane IS a creation of Stan's (and Steve's and Johnny's). So, in terms of Peter's love life, MJ ranks higher than Felicia.[/QUOTE]
Legitimacy of characters is dependent on who created them and at what time? That's a pretty weak argument, considering you then went on to excuse 4 characters and counting that are the exception.
[QUOTE=Miles To Go;4018749]They tried exploring new interests. Nobody cared[/quote]
Not really. Carlie Cooper and then Mockingbird for a hot second. I wouldn't call that exploring.
[QUOTE=Kevinroc;4018759]It still doesn't change that Spider-Man/Black Cat is still a poor man's Batman/Catwoman. :p[/QUOTE]
Still doesn't change that's just a lazy put down you'd get from some pro-DC comic war fan. Any Spidey reader worth his salt knows there's a big difference in characterization between Black Cat and Catwoman (and who was in the black catsuit on the page first). You post here enough for me to assume you're knowledgeable, so that just leaves you trolling. :p
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This has been my perspective, but I've felt like Peter has moved on from having real romantic feelings toward Felicia. He obviously is still attracted to her, but with her wildcard persona, and his belief that she doesn't actually care about who he is under the mask, I don't think he worries about wanting to be with her. Of course we know Felicia did have true feelings for him, although that seems to have been forgotten about since she forgot his identity.
I think the only way they could really get back together is if she went full on hero, or Peter tells her his secret, which at the moment I don't really see a logical reason that would lead him to doing that.
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[QUOTE=Miles To Go;4018749]
..Ok, this is a clear exaggeration. You're just being a contrarian at this point.
Frankly, with how great you are at writing Peter/MJ in your fanfiction, I expected you to know better than this....[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind I altered their dynamic significantly by giving MJ actual agency in Peter's world (i.e. powers of her own). Even in the new video game, the producers gave MJ a more proactive role. I will always contend the days of the more or less helpless female romantic partner to the male superhero are behind us. I have zero interest in reading about or writing such characters, but again to each their own.
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[QUOTE=Zeitgeist;4019111]Not really. Carlie Cooper and then Mockingbird for a hot second. I wouldn't call that exploring.[/QUOTE]
You don't need to explore all that thoroughly when it becomes pretty clear noone's in the mood to indulge in the experiment. Carlie had three years of build-up and failed to get over as a viable long-term interest, and Bobbi had the unfortunate stigma of being associated with the infancy of Comicsgate and a controversial solo outing that made her a toxic fit for Peter.
The audience wanted Peter and MJ. They demanded it. They got their way. The customer is always right in the end.
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[QUOTE=Miles To Go;4019166]...The audience wanted Peter and MJ. They demanded it. They got their way. The customer is always right in the end.[/QUOTE]
Did we/they really? Sales never went down that much during Slott's run. If Spencer had not been a fan of the pairing I highly doubt anything would have changed. This seems more like an internal decision than one forced by external fan pressure.