So, are going to pretend that Finn wasn't truly meant to be force sensitive?

[QUOTE=KNIGHT OF THE LAKE;4757939]Alot of people did, but it was clearly misdirection because a lot of the fun of the the build up to TFA was the speculation on who was who and what the plot would be.

Either way they botched Finn. Even if he wasn't a Jedi, having a strom trooper who should theoretically be a great military ops type character would be unique in Star Wars. You really had an opportunity to have Rey handle the mystical stuff, Poe to handle space dogfights, and Finn to be the ground general who was leading men in the war.

Finn's biggest problem was that his first film he was saddled with being the kinda goofy skeptic fish out of water. The second film any momentum or growth he could have had was undermined by being saddled with Rose who only really existed to tell him that all his bravery was wrong and undermined any character development he was having. Then in the last film we actually did see a competent Finn, but by that point it was too late to make him important to the degree that I think even the filmmakers realized it would be too left field to give him an overt major development like him being a force user.[/QUOTE]

You just explained perfectly why on one hand I think the movie could have been epic in this sense, but ultimately it will be trash to me. Disney should have been mindful of the fact that so many people saw a Black Panther movie where black men were written with agency, strength, and depth even though they were all different with different perspective and motivations. They go back and give us a paper thin Finn that was a goofy character to start.I don't fault John Boyega for going off now after the movies are done. Get your check then say what you want. Finn was ruined for mostly racial reasons.

I think the character of Finn was the victim of Lucus Films' approach to giving carte blanche to the writers/directors for each movie. Abrams most likely though of Finn as a Force sensitive character and may be why he acted the way he did in his first scene at the village massacre that he was felling every death through the Force. Could also explain why he is such a crack shot. Johnson most likely rejected this idea because it didn't "fit the narrative" that he was setting in his movie.. It would seem that Broom Boy was a better example of a "nobody" that can fell the Force more than FN-2187 to him. His story line being attached to Rose did not help either really giving him no real development in Johnson's movie. When Abrams wrote the part of Finn for the 2nd time he is more in his place with the resistance and it was his idea and willing to sacrifice himself that led to a finial victory. Finn was not ruined for racial reasons, it was because of the different writers/directors ideas of what he should be left his story flat. I believe that if Abrams did all three movies that Finn's developments along the way would have been complexly different in the 2nd move then what we got.

I feel like if JJ Abrams directed Episode 8, we would have seen Finn become a jedi. They hinted at it in Episode 9 but we never got to truly know what he was talking about. It would have amazing to see Finn as a jedi and fight alongside Rey. We may have even seen him help fight the Emperor. Such a waste...

[QUOTE=Nicholas Occomore;4897856]I feel like if JJ Abrams directed Episode 8, we would have seen Finn become a jedi. They hinted at it in Episode 9 but we never got to truly know what he was talking about. It would have amazing to see Finn as a jedi and fight alongside Rey. We may have even seen him help fight the Emperor. Such a waste...[/QUOTE]

Well that's a wonderful idea, Finn was my favorite character in episode VII and I thought he had a lot of potential since he was the first original character, Rey was very similar to Luke (not that it bothers me back then) and Finn to Han, but Finn seemed something fresh and unique into the movies.

I think that was the problem with this trilogy, many good ideas poor developed or plainly forgotten.

[QUOTE=Coatl;4898013]Well that's a wonderful idea, Finn was my favorite character in episode VII and I thought he had a lot of potential since he was the first original character, Rey was very similar to Luke (not that it bothers me back then) and Finn to Han, but Finn seemed something fresh and unique into the movies.

I think that was the problem with this trilogy, many good ideas poor developed or plainly forgotten.[/QUOTE]

I love Finn... to the extent where he’s kind fo the only character I actually like now after the ST is done with, because I hate what Ben Solo/Kylo Ren became (a trilogy derailing distraction for a limited and loathsome character) and because Rey and Finn got screwed over to assist Ben’s story... but at least Finn has TFA, while Rey’s story there is retroactively screwed up by TLJ.

But I could have actually enjoyed the final showdown with the Emperor if it was Rey, Ben, *and Finn* fighting him instead of the stupid and lame should mates bull$#!+ between Rey and Ben - Finn and Ben getting scenes together to actually tackled their history and the substance of Ben’s change (him actually looking guilty and ashamed instead of trying to be some bland bravado-filled improv act by Driver. Plus, Finn would add some great spice to that last scene - he’s just as much a victim of Palpatine’s machinations as Rey and Ben are, but Palpatine overlooked him and didn’t spare him a second thought, so he’d almost be like a reverse Anakin - a common gear Palpatine expects to act a certain way, but his defection ends up being a a fatal blow to Palpatine’s schemes.

Anybody feel that Finn seemed a bit different in 9, especially his friendship with Poe? They seemed to go from best buds to "You'll never be Leia!!!" pretty quick.

Finn got shafted big time in both Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker. He was the most interesting of the new 3 in the first movie, and he got shoved to the background for the Rey/Kylo romance angle which no one liked. Finn and Poe both suffered because of that angle being the focus.

[QUOTE=ChrisIII;4898645]Anybody feel that Finn seemed a bit different in 9, especially his friendship with Poe? They seemed to go from best buds to "You'll never be Leia!!!" pretty quick.[/QUOTE]

Finn, like most of the characters in TROS, suffers from an attempt by Abrams to overcompensate for a lack of substantial storytelling for the ensemble with about twice as much story as anyone needs. The brief, extremely forgettable conflict between Finn and Poe is an example.

However, at least his "comic relief" was toned down significantly-that role was pretty much given to 3PO this time around. He seemed much more mature this time.

Along with all the other knocks on the trilogy, jj completely bungling the chance to show several potential jedi that were former stormtroopers and split away due to the urgings of the force. Rey (gulp), with influence of force ghost masters could train, or train with a group that already has combat experience, and they would be a different, new kind of jedi order.

The First Order's stormtrooper recruitment sort of comes off as a darker mirror of the Jedi's recruitment practices, oddly enough.

[QUOTE=ChrisIII;4903209]However, at least his "comic relief" was toned down significantly-that role was pretty much given to 3PO this time around. He seemed much more mature this time.[/QUOTE]

I found TFA could largely get away with some comedy for Finn because it still gave him a boat-load of plot important dramatic scenes to offset any of the damage to taking him seriously as a character - this allowed humor to be more endearing than defining with him. It was fun to chuckle at him and BB-8 giving each other thumbs up, but it didn’t negate the sheer horror and pity he experienced in Lor San Telka’s village when he had his epiphany and refused to kill people. It was fun to laugh when he and Poe establishes their friendship with some blunt truths about why they were together, but it didn’t negate Finn successfully engineering their escape together as part of his desertion of the First Order. It was funny to see him give out too much bravado towards Rey and Han when going along with Rey’s assumption he was a Resistance fighter... but that didn’t remove the drama of him confessing his lie to Rey, or returning to Han when the Hosnian System blew up *before* he knew Rey was lost on the woods.

TROS calmed down on most of the comedy, but didn’t give him much plot importance - heck, it didn’t even let him be Rey’s closest confidante, presumably because that would have inevitably led to the audience realizing that Kylo makes no sense as Rey’s “soul mate” even from a platonic sense, much less a romantic sense. Sadly, Finn’s mostly just stuck acting as an ancillary character who the plot has to try and [I]contrive[/I] some significance for with the boarding action. Even his Force sensitivity is an afterthought, even though it might be the most interesting development for the character.

TLJ is the one that mostly seems totally disconnected from the drama of Finn's story and most distracted by Boyega’s gift for comedy. Stuff like Finn waking up and prat-falling off his medical bed than walking around like a leaking water ballon simply doesn’t serve any dramatic purpose and is by and large just juvenile comedy. And him getting tased by Rose when he’s arguably (though accidentally) got the correct perspective that the Resistance is screwed in the Space Chase, and being lectured by her on slavery when he’s, y’know, a former child slave himself both add some uncomfortable implications to Johnson's take on the character. And he seemed totally ignorant or uninterested in the drama of Finn’s background - I mean, it takes a certain kind of apathy towards a child-slave returning to his “home” and finding no drama in the idea... and instead thinking that Tom Hardy slapping the guy’s ass is a natural scene idea.

How awesome it would have been for him to lead a stormtrooper rebellion. How thematic.

Shame also about the Finn/Poe romance.

Ah well...

There's an alternate Finn/Phasma confrontation where he tells some other Stormtroopers that she was the one who brought down Starkiller's shields, and her troopers start to waiver; she kills all of them to cover it up again (also lines up with the Phasma comic in which she also went to extraordinary lengths to cover up her role in that) before Finn kills her.

That would've actually fit in nicely with the Stormtrooper revolt concept.

[QUOTE=ChrisIII;4932394]There's an alternate Finn/Phasma confrontation where he tells some other Stormtroopers that she was the one who brought down Starkiller's shields, and her troopers start to waiver; she kills all of them to cover it up again (also lines up with the Phasma comic in which she also went to extraordinary lengths to cover up her role in that) before Finn kills her.

That would've actually fit in nicely with the Stormtrooper revolt concept.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, indeed, i'm actually really surprised that this angle hasn't been explored at all in this trilogy. Would have been an interesting way to beat the empire, a revolt from the inside.