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[QUOTE=adrikito;3450930]I saw the last image of this chapter in INSIDEPULSE...
Brother Eye(another problem, created for batman) is controlling that idiot?[/QUOTE]
I don't think so - Brother Eye seems to be working with, not controlling, the General.
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As Jason somewhat said in the latest arc.
"Brother Eye? Another one of your shit ready to blow over, Bruce man?"
You know it!
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I hate saying this but this book needs a new writer. Unless this story ends with them all back together at the end (highly unlikely at this point) then its time for a change before its to late. No one wants to see a Tim become evil batman. No wants to see Batwoman become a villain in her book or this. Its time to stop. Its time for people to drop this book to get people at DC to realize he making big mistake. I have.
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[QUOTE=Supermutant2099;3451005]I hate saying this but this book needs a new writer. Unless this story ends with them all back together at the end (highly unlikely at this point) then its time for a change before its to late. No one wants to see a Tim become evil batman. No wants to see Batwoman become a villain in her book or this. Its time to stop. Its time for people to drop this book to get people at DC to realize he making big mistake. I have.[/QUOTE]
Since the ending of this issue implies that the future can be changed, I doubt Tim's going to actually become his evil future self. And Batwoman's not becoming a villain, like, at all. There's nothing that points to that.
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[QUOTE=Caivu;3451016]Since the ending of this issue implies that the future can be changed, I doubt Tim's going to actually become his evil future self. And Batwoman's not becoming a villain, like, at all. There's nothing that points to that.[/QUOTE]
I agree - I don't see Tim even going as far as Jason in terms of anti-hero. Unless Lobdell gets him again. ;)
I think it's clear that Batwoman and the Batfamily are going to be antagonists, but I don't think she's a villain. But I agree with Caivu that the Colony isn't a villainous organization, either, which I think is still controversial with the wider fandom.
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There is some different sides to the story that will make for meaty story telling in the future.
Cass definitely has a chance to get an arc out of this. Reminds me of how when Barb removed her own symbol so I think they share the same moral code. Really hope they get to meet and form a relationship soon.
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[QUOTE=millernumber1;3450726]I'm really, really torn on this issue - which feels surprising to me, since I've been fully onboard for nearly every single issue up till now. While there is some really strong stuff with Cass, Kate, and Tim, Steph really got shafted here. Last issue, though I thought it was a bit rushed, she decided that she was where she needed to be, instead of going off with Anarky.
But here? She's all "I can't watch you become evil, Tim. Peace out." It's consistent with what's gone before, but it's complete whiplash from last issue, and I'm really, really irritated that Tynion's writing her off AGAIN.[/QUOTE]
I maintain tht Steph has been nothing but terrible since Tec started. All she has is inconsistent drama about Tim or something else thats dumb. I really wish the two never got back together becuase it has been a drag. Not sure if better or worse than Batwing and JPV with their one lines/page every other issue.
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[SPOIL] There's the self-righteous jerk Batman that some writers are fond of but I HATE!! That's the problem with these types of debates in comics, not just Batman but superhero comics in-general. They're almost never written fairly or believably. One side is the "realist" who makes actual logical arguments, and the other are a bunch of emotional A-holes using strawman arguments but acting all self-righteous about it. You CAN make this argument more balanced, but many writers simply fail to do so.
Bruce and co, have no real good counter-argument here (or if they do the writer fails to convey it). Also Bruce should know that, as an ex-soldier, Kate wouldn't have the same qualms about using lethal force if necessary as he does. She's been trained to do that after all.
He comes across like a douche who puts his own self-righteous "code" above logic or the lives of innocent people. I'm 100% on Kate's side in this. [/SPOIL]
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So guys, I remember Scott Snyder saying there were plans for Harper to be in a new team book last year in a interview..with the split up in this issue of detective and the rumor peter tomasi is taking over the book, I really am thinking we will get a gotham knights book with tim,cassandra,stephanie and harper row soon.
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[QUOTE=millernumber1;3451060]I agree - I don't see Tim even going as far as Jason in terms of anti-hero. [B]Unless Lobdell gets him again.[/B] ;)[/QUOTE]
Do you want me to have a heart attack? Nobody can be this cruel! It would be much more merciful if you put Tim into the ground and bury him alive. Or maybe you should just shoot him like a rabid dog. :D
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[QUOTE=Alycat;3451163]I maintain tht Steph has been nothing but terrible since Tec started. All she has is inconsistent drama about Tim or something else thats dumb. I really wish the two never got back together becuase it has been a drag. Not sure if better or worse than Batwing and JPV with their one lines/page every other issue.[/QUOTE]
I mean, obviously I disagree about the general quality of Steph's writing in this run, but I do think that her story has definitely gotten away from Tynion in the past few months. But then again, I like Batwing and JPV being around, too.
[QUOTE=Punisher007;3451207][SPOIL] There's the self-righteous jerk Batman that some writers are fond of but I HATE!! That's the problem with these types of debates in comics, not just Batman but superhero comics in-general. They're almost never written fairly or believably. One side is the "realist" who makes actual logical arguments, and the other are a bunch of emotional A-holes using strawman arguments but acting all self-righteous about it. You CAN make this argument more balanced, but many writers simply fail to do so.
Bruce and co, have no real good counter-argument here (or if they do the writer fails to convey it). Also Bruce should know that, as an ex-soldier, Kate wouldn't have the same qualms about using lethal force if necessary as he does. She's been trained to do that after all.
He comes across like a douche who puts his own self-righteous "code" above logic or the lives of innocent people. I'm 100% on Kate's side in this. [/SPOIL][/QUOTE]
Um. Well, your username is Punisher...
I think if you're not willing to accept that Batman can't and won't kill, then you just won't like a Batman story. Because DC is never going to let Batman kill in main continuity, and so the writers will always have to come up with reasons for it.
The way you solve this is if you have situations where you clearly show that Batman's way is better, and he can save more people without killing than his opponents can. And I think, to some extent, you see that in stories like League of Shadows.
But again: this is a Batman story. If you think Batman should be okay with killing, you're probably reading the wrong books.
[QUOTE=DragonPiece;3451218]So guys, I remember Scott Snyder saying there were plans for Harper to be in a new team book last year in a interview..with the split up in this issue of detective and the rumor peter tomasi is taking over the book, I really am thinking we will get a gotham knights book with tim,cassandra,stephanie and harper row soon.[/QUOTE]
That could be part of what Tynion's doing post NOPE JUSTICE. But I'm really anxious to see what the May solicits are like at this point.
[QUOTE=shadowsgirl;3451222]Do you want me to have a heart attack? Nobody can be this cruel! It would be much more merciful if you put Tim into the ground and bury him alive. Or maybe you should just shoot him like a rabid dog. :D[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I didn't intend this to be a serious thought. Pretty sure there's not any moves in that direction, thankfully. :)
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[QUOTE=millernumber1;3451259]
I think if you're not willing to accept that Batman can't and won't kill, then you just won't like a Batman story. Because DC is never going to let Batman kill in main continuity, and so the writers will always have to come up with reasons for it.
The way you solve this is if you have situations where you clearly show that Batman's way is better, and he can save more people without killing than his opponents can. And I think, to some extent, you see that in stories like League of Shadows.
But again: this is a Batman story. If you think Batman should be okay with killing, you're probably reading the wrong books.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. Batman does not kill, at least in main continuity. He will go to extreme lengths to maintain his code. When his subordinates break the code, he's right to be angry and to react the way he did in this issue. As part of his team, they represent him/what he stands for.
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Come up with a better reason for it. The problem here is, he has no real counterargument, nor a viable alternative here.
And no, I don't want Batman to be The Punisher, actually I hate it when writers do that. It's less about Batman killing himself and more his chewing others out for not doing it 'his way." Especially a woman who he knows is an ex-soldier. Also justifiable homicide Bruce, look it up.
He has no alternative here, simple as that. The best they can come up with is "we're supposed to be better" which is a nonsense argument in situations like this. Kate is right here, simple as that.
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[QUOTE=Supermutant2099;3451005]I hate saying this but this book needs a new writer. Unless this story ends with them all back together at the end (highly unlikely at this point) then its time for a change before its to late. No one wants to see a Tim become evil batman. No wants to see Batwoman become a villain in her book or this. Its time to stop. Its time for people to drop this book to get people at DC to realize he making big mistake. I have.[/QUOTE]
Obviously Tim won't become "evil Batman", good grief. Anyway, I'm pleased to see this boring team/urban armada get busted up and hopefully Batwoman will be operating solo from now on. But to be honest, what will likely happen is she will realise the "error" of her ways and will take some kind of "I'm a Bat so I don't kill" pledge and be welcomed back into the fold. I sense a moral dilemma on the horizon and I hope I'm wrong.
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[QUOTE=millernumber1;3451259]I mean, obviously I disagree about the general quality of Steph's writing in this run, but I do think that her story has definitely gotten away from Tynion in the past few months. But then again, I like Batwing and JPV being around, too./QUOTE]
I wonder if Tynion ever had much of a plan for her honestly. I actually like JPV and was hoping that someone could do something with Batwing, but they've just been kinda there, even in JPV own arc.