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[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;3510109]But TDK didn't surpass the genre it wasn't really a superhero movie. More a crime thriller with batman added in. It's debatable if Heath would have been nominated at all if he had lived.[/QUOTE]
TDK was a superhero movie and a crime thriller.
Superhero movies do not have one definition.
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[QUOTE=Sandfall;3510195]Black Panther did not tackle it in full depth. it mentioned it briefly in passing. reason it will not get nominated. its a comic movie with some commentary not the opposite. many comic films have tackled commentary with an extra mile and they were not nominated. there was more magic vibranium fantasy in the movie. Wonder Woman exceeded expectations as well. both critical and commercial success. it was still shut out.[/QUOTE]
So you're hoping BP gets shut out? That's just kinda :(
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[QUOTE=Sandfall;3510215]TDK was a superhero movie and a crime thriller.
Superhero movies do not have one definition.[/QUOTE]
You're right but TDK proceeded from the position that superheroes are silly it consciously rejected the fantasitc. Which is kinda ironic since the lead character ends up barking ridiculously through the whole movie.
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[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;3510219]So you're hoping BP gets shut out? That's just kinda :([/QUOTE]
I think BP should be treated fairly like every other comic movie. SJW accolades will be more hurtful to BP. It hurt wonder woman a lot.
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[QUOTE=Sandfall;3510195]Black Panther did not tackle it in full depth. it mentioned it briefly in passing. reason it will not get nominated. its a comic movie with some commentary not the opposite. many comic films have tackled commentary with an extra mile and they were not nominated. there was more magic vibranium fantasy in the movie. Wonder Woman exceeded expectations as well. both critical and commercial success. it was still shut out.[/QUOTE]
Explicit discussion doesn't mean that is the only time the issues exist. Killmonger's motivation and backstory is seeped in these issues. T'Challa is the young leader who is finding that the world is more morally gray than he had been prepared for. The contrasting visions of the spirit world as T'Challa and Erik see their fathers showcases the choices each made in addressing these issues. Supporting character like M'Baku and W'Kabi have motivations in these issues that drive every choice they make. Nakia and Okoye have to decide which leader, and by extension Wakanda's relationship to the outside world they will follow. The last scenes with T'Challa and Shuri in Oakland then later at the UN occur because these issues are the driving force of the story. The movie manages to bring these up in an organic manner that drives the characters and plot. If you try to remove these issues, there is no movie left.
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[QUOTE=Sandfall;3510195]Black Panther did not tackle it in full depth. it mentioned it briefly in passing. reason it will not get nominated. its a comic movie with some commentary not the opposite. many comic films have tackled commentary with an extra mile and they were not nominated. there was more magic vibranium fantasy in the movie. Wonder Woman exceeded expectations as well. both critical and commercial success. it was still shut out.[/QUOTE]
Wonder Woman was a good movie but Black Panther was better thanks to Killmonger alone simply because Black Panther had an interesting villain unlike WW.
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[QUOTE=Sandfall;3509784]Logan got adapted screenplay fairly without any big campaign or political motivation[/QUOTE]
Still convinced Logan wasn't a political movie at all then?
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[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;3510009]Eh Logan didn't surpass the genre BP did. So it will most likely be considered for some awards next time around.[/QUOTE]
It might get some nominations, but it's not going to win anything. It is still a superhero movie. The Oscars don't like genre stuff.
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[QUOTE=Carabas;3510302]It might get some nominations, but it's not going to win anything. It is still a superhero movie. The Oscars don't like genre stuff.[/QUOTE]
Only time will tell.
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[QUOTE=Carabas;3510302]It might get some nominations, but it's not going to win anything. It is still a superhero movie. The Oscars don't like genre stuff.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes they like genre movies. Misery, Silence of the Lambs, and Get Out are all considered horror movies and they won in big categories. And Heath Ledger won for the Joker
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[QUOTE=Rincewind;3510322]Sometimes they like genre movies. Misery, Silence of the Lambs, and Get Out are all considered horror movies and they won in big categories. And Heath Ledger won for the Joker[/QUOTE]
Plus Lord of the Rings 3 won several Oscars. BP could possibly snag one for costume design.
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[QUOTE=Rincewind;3510322]Sometimes they like genre movies. Misery, Silence of the Lambs, and Get Out are all considered horror movies and they won in big categories.[/QUOTE]There is mentally ill people being terrible horror, and there is undead guys with machetes slaughters teenagers one by one horror. The first type is not generally considered 'genre'.
[QUOTE]And Heath Ledger won for the Joker...[/QUOTE]
I think that is more of an 'we really liked the guy and he had a bunch of Oscar-worthy performances, and this is the last time we can give him one' than a 'we really liked his Joker' Oscar.
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[QUOTE=Carabas;3510355]There is mentally ill people being terrible horror, and there is undead guys with machetes slaughters teenagers one by one horror. The first type is not generally considered 'genre'.
I think that is more of an 'we really liked the guy and he had a bunch of Oscar-worthy performances, and this is the last time we can give him one' than a 'we really liked his Joker' Oscar.[/QUOTE]
Mentally ill people being terrible horror describes the first Halloween, Friday the 13th, and numerous knockoffs. Silence of the Labs is a serial killer movie and the second Hannibal Lecter movie after Manhunter. Misery is a Stephen King movie released when Stephen King was a synonym for horror. Get Out is about white people kidnapping black people for brain transplants. I'm comfortable labeling all of them as horror movies.
Heath Ledger had acclaim for Brokeback Mountain, but not much else. His death probably was a bigger sympathy factor than feeling he was due for past performances.
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[QUOTE=DrNewGod;3509143]Probably, but I could see Ross' having slapped a Ridiculously-Secret label over the whole thing. Not so much because he was doing T'Challa a favor, but because at that time, the US agencies were trying to quiet the whole superhero noise down.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but that'd only keep slobs like you and me from learning about what happened.
The big dogs would all know what happened. The exact nature might not be known, nothing he did around groups of people was anything say, Black Widow couldn't do but they'd know...something was odd.
But I guess it's a moot point, since he revealed Wakanda two weeks after.
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[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;3510009]Eh Logan didn't surpass the genre BP did. So it will most likely be considered for some awards next time around.[/QUOTE]
What is this stuff about surpassing genre? If the film is great it is considered for awards. Return of The King was definitely a fantasy adventure. But it won the most academy awards then any other film in history other then Titanic and Ben Hur. Was it saying something important? Was it 'surpassing' the genre? The Academy awards excellence.
We will have to hear the buzz around it. What film critics and the film industry people are saying. There's a whole year to see its competition.
And i don't understand this Heath Ledger winning being due to his death. Death or no death its a great performance. And a film is great simply because of Joker? There are poor films with solid performances. No one was talking about Denzel Washington's film this year. But he was nominated for the category. An actor is a part of the film which actually is the director's show. Joker is the most memorable and the best part of the film. But its part of a whole. I find all this excuse making.