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[QUOTE=Powerboy;3498248]I kind of liked Byrne's compromise on that one. Kryptonians come from a heavy gravity planet but it can't be more than about +50% of Earth gravity or they wouldn't be humanoid. Then again, heavy worlders should be short and squat which matches neither Kryptonians or Vulcans so real science is already out the door.
I think the heavy gravity explanation was okay (pseudo-science but okay) when Superman was leaping an eighth of a mile. Byrne, I think, had Kryptonians at about three to five times as strong as humans so about equivalent to vulcanss. But then throw in the Yellow sun explanation that is the real source of all their powers. Personally, I like the idea that it's not absorption since the sun's output on a single man-sized object doesn't even remotely begin to explain the level of solar power that would be needed to do the things Superman does. I prefer to think the yellow sun triggers some sort of natural abilities latent in Kryptonian cells. There has to be a duration to it, a period of time a Kryptonian can go without sunlight before the powers begin to fade or they would lose their powers at night.[/QUOTE]
On the heavy-worlder thing the problem there is that the science is all speculative until we actually find a real-world example. So short and squat is only a guess. Just what we could do to modify human beings to survive different environments hasn't begun yet.
And I still hold to the pre-Crisis logic that whatever it is in yellow solar rays that give the powers it isn't based on direct sunlight, but rather on some wavelength that is going right through building, mountains and even the planet itself so Superman is getting it at night or underground same as he is at high-noon in the middle of a field.
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[QUOTE=Powerboy;3498248]I kind of liked Byrne's compromise on that one. Kryptonians come from a heavy gravity planet but it can't be more than about +50% of Earth gravity or they wouldn't be humanoid. Then again, heavy worlders should be short and squat which matches neither Kryptonians or Vulcans so real science is already out the door.
I think the heavy gravity explanation was okay (pseudo-science but okay) when Superman was leaping an eighth of a mile. Byrne, I think, had Kryptonians at about three to five times as strong as humans so about equivalent to vulcanss. But then throw in the Yellow sun explanation that is the real source of all their powers. Personally, I like the idea that it's not absorption since the sun's output on a single man-sized object doesn't even remotely begin to explain the level of solar power that would be needed to do the things Superman does. I prefer to think the yellow sun triggers some sort of natural abilities latent in Kryptonian cells. There has to be a duration to it, a period of time a Kryptonian can go without sunlight before the powers begin to fade or they would lose their powers at night.[/QUOTE]
Yes...they would tend to be flat and hug the ground .....
Solar neutrinos that are emitted from reactions from stars (our native sun), which come in three known and maybe more varieties and they have shapeshifting strange properties and change chlorine into argon, as well as, other strange activities however, these particles constantly bombard earth day and night as they can pass thru solid objects. Superman's cells not only collects them but, is change by them turning him into a [B]Quantum magnet[/B] of sorts, for these ghostly particles, allowing him to interact with the fundamental forces of the universe (gravity being one), thus he is able to levitate and fly by alternating fields as similar to a magnetic levitation system would but, on a cosmic level.
Not knowing Kryptonian physiology but, I'd would imagine that Superman's internal organs are highly specialized and play dual or, more roles for example; the heart, in humans it not only pumps blood but, it generates the largest electrical field power in the body, even more so than the brain. In Superman his field has been modified greatly like a quantum field generator, able to interact with universe's fundamental forces that he has direct access to around him with his brain acting as the director of the power and energy in a telekinetic brain/body relationship ...by then we're talking "quantum neuro-physics"!!
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[QUOTE=jimmy;3498425]
Not knowing Kryptonian physiology but, I'd would imagine that Superman's internal organs are highly specialized and play dual or, more roles for example; the heart, in humans it not only pumps blood but, it generates the largest electrical field power in the body, even more so than the brain. In Superman his field has been modified greatly like a quantum field generator, able to interact with universe's fundamental forces that he has direct access to around him with his brain acting as the director of the power and energy in a telekinetic brain/body relationship ...by then we're talking "quantum neuro-physics"!![/QUOTE]
It has probably been a long time since how Superman’s powers worked has been systematically addressed in the comics themselves?
It might make an interesting ongoing long story arc if Superman and Prof Hamilton started work on issue...doing experiments to improve understanding of how powers work.
Maybe with specific aim of improving performance, especially in some key areas.
It might be possible...for example...if Superman knew better how his mind and body work that he could make himself completely “bombproof”against mind control. This is certainly something he should be researching vigorously, given damage that could be done if he does fall under mind control.
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Not best at anything but Top tier No.1 on the ladder. Its Superman after all, not Can-do-some-stuff-man. Fistfight equals would be Captain Marvel/ Black Adam; any other Kryptonian and probably Wonder Woman (who also gets shown with various power-swings over the centuries) + two fistful of villains. And in case of Marvel (or Shazam) and Super-/Powergirl he get the "seniority" because of his advanced experience and levelheadedness (or boyscoutishness). With all his powers ppl are eager to forget that its Supes social behavior which sets him apart. No killing, no maiming, being Mr. nice guy, caring even for his enemies fair treatment; all these little things that makes Supes haters gag on their puke; are whats part of his powerset because of his powers. He could so easily became the world greatest dick as has being shown in various "what ifs" elseworlds storys but he did not, because he does the right thing with his powers and resists the temptation to use them for his own worldly gain or enforcement of his world view on others. The showing of ultimate responsibility and continued will to be a good "human being" (well, sort of :P) where most others would not is greatly diminished too when he get shown as one who is suddenly just some hero who is sort of strong and durable and can do some stuff.
[QUOTE=JackDaw;3498447]It has probably been a long time since how Superman’s powers worked has been systematically addressed in the comics themselves?
It might make an interesting ongoing long story arc if Superman and Prof Hamilton started work on issue...doing experiments to improve understanding of how powers work.
Maybe with specific aim of improving performance, especially in some key areas.
It might be possible...for example...if Superman knew better how his mind and body work that he could make himself completely “bombproof”against mind control. This is certainly something he should be researching vigorously, given damage that could be done if he does fall under mind control.[/QUOTE]
He should but then you kill off various "Joker has made him kill Lois" or "Darkseid has made him conquer Earth" what ifs :P
Its a weird case of a weakness that if its gets exploited it makes no much sense anymore to progress in the main continuity unless its cringe-worthy stuff like having a villain whos only interested in Supes starring in a porn movie.
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[QUOTE=JackDaw;3498447]It has probably been a long time since how Superman’s powers worked has been systematically addressed in the comics themselves?
It might make an interesting ongoing long story arc if Superman and Prof Hamilton started work on issue...doing experiments to improve understanding of how powers work.
Maybe with specific aim of improving performance, especially in some key areas.
It might be possible...for example...if Superman knew better how his mind and body work that he could make himself completely “bombproof”against mind control. This is certainly something he should be researching vigorously, given damage that could be done if he does fall under mind control.[/QUOTE]
YES..it the "Lets see what I can do" approach and Superman acting in like a; test pilot, scientist and engineer.
This is exactly what I want for this "New Direction" for Superman that is coming up in few weeks with ACTION 1K, this is how Superman should be evolving.... I want Superman to do allot of self - discovery along with self development, and I can't think of any place better to start with than with Superman's mind and body interactions and inner workings, as there are a virtual universe of possibilities to be explored...
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If it had to be one, and only one, "quantifiable" (as opposed to "intangible" attribute, like winning) that Superman should be the undisputed best at among the heroes of the DCU (screw it, and the heroes of the MU too), then I say ...
Look at his debut. The very first impression the public gets of Clark.
[IMG]https://s3.amazonaws.com/cgccomics-production/action-comic/fullsize/00_Action1_Cover.png[/IMG]
What can you tell just by looking at this?
Is he fast? Don't know.
Is he durable? Maybe, probably, not too sure.
Is he strong? Oh. Hell. Yeah.
That's the first impression Supes ever made. He is strong. Stronger than you. Stronger than anyone (except, later on, for his own rogues gallery).
Superman should be the undisputed strongest superhero, if it comes down to one and only one measurable attribute.
The real Answer is "overall power", but that seems harder to quantify, unlike "strength".
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Ok does every agree that to live on Krypton you need to be like golden age Superman,and that's just to do normal stuff?
On earth a Krypton even without the sun triggering a power enhancement,would be super human.john Carter was leaping around and strong when he went away from earth on another planet,the same would apply to Kryptonians.
The sun thing is not so much a solar battery as much as a solar trigger,like a fusion reactor,built into his DNA.
That's why I would keep it simple.
No sun-golden age
With sun- full SUPER levels
So I would say a regular Kryptonian at Golden age levels gets triggered by the sun,and every cell in his body starts to work like a fusion reactor,and gives him godlike abilities.the bio aura could be a easy visual,and explanation showing this happening.
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[QUOTE=stephens2177;3500128]Ok does every agree that to live on Krypton you need to be like golden age Superman,and that's just to do normal stuff?
On earth a Krypton even without the sun triggering a power enhancement,would be super human.john Carter was leaping around and strong when he went away from earth on another planet,the same would apply to Kryptonians.
The sun thing is not so much a solar battery as much as a solar trigger,like a fusion reactor,built into his DNA.
That's why I would keep it simple.
No sun-golden age
With sun- full SUPER levels
So I would say a regular Kryptonian at Golden age levels gets triggered by the sun,and every cell in his body starts to work like a fusion reactor,and gives him godlike abilities.the bio aura could be a easy visual,and explanation showing this happening.[/QUOTE]
In the oldest Golden Age stories, I thought it was strongly implied that all Kryptonians were roughly on the level of Superman. Not even close to powerful enough to survive their planet exploding but powerful enough that, under Earth gravity, they would be leaping an eighth of a mile, outrunning trains and surviving World War I shells.
I think that would be a great idea that, even under a red son, he would still be at that power level. He doesn't have the sensory powers or flight and the strength, speed and durability are reduced to those levels without a yellow sun but this crap of Batman or Lex Luthor sticking a red filter between the Earth and the sun? Well, let's just say Batman or Lex Luthor or whoever would be in for a big surprise.
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I just want to keep it simple,and use many different era's of his powers to explain his powers going forward.
I say have all Kryptonians at Golden age levels.on krypton they would seem to just be human level,but away from there they become MORE.i say the sun,because I don't think just 1 kind makes sense.to me ALL his powers come from the harsh Krypton environment.his body has to adapt to survive living on it,AND when he leaves it and starts soaking up actual sun(which imo wouldn't be possible on krypton,because of the atmosphere blocking it), it makes them SUPER,and the bio aura goes full power
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Since I'm all about having the Superman of my youth, it only matters to me that in those comics (of the '60s and '70s), the sun was simply a trigger. A light switch. It turned on the powers on Earth and turned them off on Krypton.
That allowed for stories where Superman and other Kryptonians have no powers and are just like regular human beings. So all the stories about Krypton, Kandor, Lexor etc.--and stories where, either in the distant past or future, Earth has a red sun. The trigger effect made it easy to turn off powers or turn them on, without getting into complex explanations--like why Kal-El gains his powers over a long time, while Zod gets his right away.
Now this does contradict one of my other desires--that Superman should be the most well-travelled. It makes it a lot harder for him to travel all over time and space if he has to keep watching out for red suns. While that limitation provides some good plots, it starts to become something that also needs a complex explanation, if Superman's legend is spread throughout the cosmos. Being one smart cookie, I'm going to guess that Superman would find a way to get around time space even in areas of red sun activity.
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^This is why Superman should be made a special Kryptonian, to truly make him "One of a Kind" even among Kryptonians.
Lets say, while still a baby in the ship, the craft passed through some exotic radiation field from a unusual star, which had an effect on his physiology..
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[QUOTE=Jim Kelly;3501154]
Now this does contradict one of my other desires--that Superman should be the most well-travelled. It makes it a lot harder for him to travel all over time and space if he has to keep watching out for red suns. While that limitation provides some good plots, it starts to become something that also needs a complex explanation, if Superman's legend is spread throughout the cosmos. Being one smart cookie, I'm going to guess that Superman would find a way to get around time space even in areas of red sun activity.[/QUOTE]
That suggestion of yours (make Superman the most well travelled) is the one that has resonated most with me in this thread.
Closely followed by idea that Superman should systematically explore his powers. It strikes me as near absurd that since John Byrne established decades ago that telekinesis would be needed for many of the strength fears, that we’ve seen almost zilch imaginative exploration of that, for example.
Surely..for example..it can be used with fine control to allow detailed control of machinery, or even emergency first aid...setting Bruce’s bones back in place, after he’s injured himself trying to hit Superman, for instance.
But as you intimate..the two could be combined..we could see Superman specifically researching how best to stop his powers being totally negged by Red Suns.
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[QUOTE=JackDaw;3501274]That suggestion of yours (make Superman the most well travelled) is the one that has resonated most with me in this thread.
Closely followed by idea that Superman should systematically explore his powers. It strikes me as near absurd that since John Byrne established decades ago that telekinesis would be needed for many of the strength fears, that we’ve seen almost zilch imaginative exploration of that, for example.
Surely..for example..it can be used with fine control to allow detailed control of machinery, or even emergency first aid...setting Bruce’s bones back in place, after he’s injured himself trying to hit Superman, for instance.
But as you intimate..the two could be combined..we could see Superman specifically researching how best to stop his powers being totally negged by Red Suns.[/QUOTE]
Next to Magic, which in my opionion made the character seem too out of balance, I never like the Red Sun excuse as it limited Superman too much....
Just thinking about some of this stuff - Now, I kind of wish they would do some kind of re-boot to implement some base changes and with all due respect to present day Superman, make him single again (now there a poll - question; Superman Single, Married or, Married with Children?) however, going forward, there is allot under the hood that can be explored...
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[QUOTE=JackDaw;3501274]Closely followed by idea that Superman should systematically explore his powers. It strikes me as near absurd that since John Byrne established decades ago that telekinesis would be needed for many of the strength fears, that we’ve seen almost zilch imaginative exploration of that, for example.
Surely..for example..it can be used with fine control to allow detailed control of machinery, or even emergency first aid...setting Bruce’s bones back in place, after he’s injured himself trying to hit Superman, for instance.
[/QUOTE]
And this here is my biggest fear. The temptation to take an explanation for Superman's existing powers and use it as a way to redefine the character. I loved Byrne's explanation of the powers as far as it went but never wanted to se it linked to actual telekinetic energy or even the more limited (in range) powers of Kon-El.
Superman has largely been a self-contained hero. His powers were entirely about him. He had powerful muscles that allowed him to lift a boulder, but that boulder remained a boulder- it wasn't altered in mass or composition. The bullets that bounced off his chest were the same bullets that left the gun, no transmutation or absorbtion of inertia, Every one of his feats was the result of his "unique" body interacting with the regular world. Giving him TK powers or anything else changes the nature of the character so that now he is altering the nature of other objects. Works for the concept of Kon-El, magic users, and Element Lad but it isn't Superman/
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[QUOTE=Jon Clark;3501542]And this here is my biggest fear. The temptation to take an explanation for Superman's existing powers and use it as a way to redefine the character. I loved Byrne's explanation of the powers as far as it went but never wanted to se it linked to actual telekinetic energy or even the more limited (in range) powers of Kon-El.
Superman has largely been a self-contained hero. His powers were entirely about him. He had powerful muscles that allowed him to lift a boulder, but that boulder remained a boulder- it wasn't altered in mass or composition. The bullets that bounced off his chest were the same bullets that left the gun, no transmutation or absorbtion of inertia, Every one of his feats was the result of his "unique" body interacting with the regular world. Giving him TK powers or anything else changes the nature of the character so that now he is altering the nature of other objects. Works for the concept of Kon-El, magic users, and Element Lad but it isn't Superman/[/QUOTE]
I must admit that until I saw your post, I thought telekinesis only referred to moving objects, holding them steady, or maintaining their structural integrity. A quick check on google showed me that’s just “basic telekinesis” and “advanced telekinesis” can refer to actually altering constitution of matter.
I agree with you that I wouldn’t like Superman to have “advanced telekinesis”.
But I would like him to understand and use the basic telekinesis power John Byrne established with more control, understanding, imagination, and finesse.
And that goes with several elements of his powerset. For example...as I argued earlier his senses, experience, memory, and intelligence should make him an almost unrivalled reader of body language..it should be really difficult to lie to him, for example.