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[QUOTE=achilles;5289952]To be fair, at this point, even with characters like WW, it's pretty hard, though not impossible, to show us action we haven't seen before; most just repeat stuff that's been done before, whether they know it or not. There have of course been exceptions, but they are exceptions.[/QUOTE]
It has nothing to do with action in WW or not. They rip this movie because its not of their director. Nothing new, they have done that before, they will do it with other movies.
The irony of it all they haven't even seen the movie. These people repeat a lie for a hundred times to make it a truth. Even if WW84 was the most action filled movie of all time, they would find something else.
I repeat it has nothing to do with WW84 this or that. Its all about being spiteful, out of the envy they have, because Jenkins first movie was a hit. Their director flopped with the two most popular superheroes on earth. Therefore they must try and portrait the rest of DCEU as failures. Or when they cannot, they will spread the word that it was because Wan in Aquaman followed Snyder's vision. When even the most uninterested movie goer could spot the difference.
It will be always the same story with that cult. Jenkins is perceived as an enemy by them, therefore anything WW is a failure. Pandemic or not doesn't matter to them.
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Isn't like Jenkins one of the directors who has talked pretty positively about Snyder? Or at least said openly she didn't like the theatrical cut of JL.
Seems a cutting your nose to spite your face :p
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[QUOTE=Gaius;5290005]Isn't like Jenkins one of the directors who has talked pretty positively about Snyder? Or at least said openly she didn't like the theatrical cut of JL.
Seems a cutting your nose to spite your face :p[/QUOTE]
Its because she is friends with Johns with whom she has a great working relationship.
They blame Johns for the failure of Snyder's movies. Actually they would blame anyone to cover for the failures of those movies. Any movie that fails is because of Johns, pretty much they forget he was involved in WW and Aquaman Hits.
Jenkins like Wan departed from Snyder's vision of the DCEU. That also makes her an enemy as well. Even if she has spoken well of him, that doesn't matter to them.
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[QUOTE=MarFarr;5289986]It has nothing to do with action in WW or not. They rip this movie because its not of their director. Nothing new, they have done that before, they will do it with other movies.
The irony of it all they haven't even seen the movie. These people repeat a lie for a hundred times to make it a truth. Even if WW84 was the most action filled movie of all time, they would find something else.
I repeat it has nothing to do with WW84 this or that. Its all about being spiteful, out of the envy they have, because Jenkins first movie was a hit. Their director flopped with the two most popular superheroes on earth. Therefore they must try and portrait the rest of DCEU as failures. Or when they cannot, they will spread the word that it was because Wan in Aquaman followed Snyder's vision. When even the most uninterested movie goer could spot the difference.
It will be always the same story with that cult. Jenkins is perceived as an enemy by them, therefore anything WW is a failure. Pandemic or not doesn't matter to them.[/QUOTE]
Bingo!
And remember that these were the same people that, when desperation set it, had the nerve to say that Wonder Woman's success was thanks to Snyder because he cast Gal Gadot and he "wrote" the film. I am not kidding. The very first financially and artistically successful superhero film starring a woman was directed by a woman, and Snyderfans were actually trying to center the film's success as something that belonged to Snyder, hence attempting to erase Jenkins and even Gadot herself (because Snyder cast her. Who cares if Gadot embodied Diana with such charm and sweetness and genuine passion? Who cares that Jenkins finally gave us a DCEU tale that made sense and was not a chore to watch? Snyder was the person who deserved all the credit).
Seriously, you cannot make this stuff up.
Now the Snyderstans are just shredding WW84 to pieces because they feel "vindicated," as if WW fans were to blame for Snyder's utter inability to make decent movies.
Ironically, the film, which now sits at 78 % on RT is still much much higher than Snyder's trilogy of critical flops: BVS, MOS, and JL. But they will never admit that his films are far from the "masterpieces with depth and uniqueness" that they claim those films to be.
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Lol as if the Snyder cut would perform as well under similar circumstances.
But these are fringe online trolls that aren't representative of the entire Snyder fanbase. There are plenty of DCEU fans I imagine who like Snyder and Jenkins and are excited for this film. They just aren't as loud, as in most things.
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[QUOTE=MarFarr;5289986]It has nothing to do with action in WW or not. They rip this movie because its not of their director. Nothing new, they have done that before, they will do it with other movies.
The irony of it all they haven't even seen the movie. These people repeat a lie for a hundred times to make it a truth. Even if WW84 was the most action filled movie of all time, they would find something else.
I repeat it has nothing to do with WW84 this or that. Its all about being spiteful, out of the envy they have, because Jenkins first movie was a hit. Their director flopped with the two most popular superheroes on earth. Therefore they must try and portrait the rest of DCEU as failures. Or when they cannot, they will spread the word that it was because Wan in Aquaman followed Snyder's vision. When even the most uninterested movie goer could spot the difference.
It will be always the same story with that cult. Jenkins is perceived as an enemy by them, therefore anything WW is a failure. Pandemic or not doesn't matter to them.[/QUOTE]
No, you didn't get the point; it has nothing to do with the people you refer to, nothing to do with Snyder, Jenkins, or any of them, because the Chinese, who I was referring to, the one's with that opinion (reportedly), don't care about them, and probably mostly haven't heard of them. Or at least don't follow them. And THEY have seen it. Well, a few of them, anyway, considering the low box office.
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[QUOTE=FutureWonder;5290049]Bingo!
And remember that these were the same people that, when desperation set it, had the nerve to say that Wonder Woman's success was thanks to Snyder because he cast Gal Gadot and he "wrote" the film. I am not kidding. The very first financially and artistically successful superhero film starring a woman was directed by a woman, and Snyderfans were actually trying to center the film's success as something that belonged to Snyder, hence attempting to erase Jenkins and even Gadot herself (because Snyder cast her. Who cares if Gadot embodied Diana with such charm and sweetness and genuine passion? Who cares that Jenkins finally gave us a DCEU tale that made sense and was not a chore to watch? Snyder was the person who deserved all the credit).
Seriously, you cannot make this stuff up.
Now the Snyderstans are just shredding WW84 to pieces because they feel "vindicated," as if WW fans were to blame for Snyder's utter inability to make decent movies.
Ironically, the film, which now sits at 78 % on RT is still much much higher than Snyder's trilogy of critical flops: BVS, MOS, and JL. But they will never admit that his films are far from the "masterpieces with depth and uniqueness" that they claim those films to be.[/QUOTE]
You couldn't have said it any better. YES, they claim WW did well because he cast Gadot, same applies for Aquaman because he cast Momoa. When the truth is, had he directed those two movies, they would have flopped. He flopped with Batman and Superman, the two most known comic characters in the world. Let alone, as you say with a frist superhero movie starring a woman or a character as Aquaman, who had been unjustly the butt of jokes for years.
Jenkins and Wan have saved the DCEU from the disaster that Snyder left. As a DC fan I was rooting for his movies to do well, but I cannot NOT admit they did not and led the entire DCEU on the verge of collapse. But I am tired of these stans trying to tarnish anything that does not have his stamp on it. Any damn movie that comes out they start a campaign to rip it apart with lies and distorted versions.
Jenkins departed from his vision and she has been proved right. Now forgetting that there is a pandemic, they are trying to get even at the success she and the rest achieved in the first movie, by spreading the false rumor that the Movie has flopped.
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5290066]Lol as if the Snyder cut would perform as well under similar circumstances.
But these are fringe online trolls that aren't representative of the entire Snyder fanbase. There are plenty of DCEU fans I imagine who like Snyder and Jenkins and are excited for this film. They just aren't as loud, as in most things.[/QUOTE]
Don't make the mistake, They are more than a fringe. They aren't even DC fans. The amount of garbage they say about these characters is unbelievable. They cut and paste something they read and distort it, from WW should kill Steve (from flashpoint I suspect) not having a romance with him. That Mera was married to Nereus etc. That snyder would have not distorted them as in the movies of Jenkins and Wan. They sound and act like satanic cults, but don't even think they are a fringe.
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[QUOTE=achilles;5290109]No, you didn't get the point; it has nothing to do with the people you refer to, nothing to do with Snyder, Jenkins, or any of them, because the Chinese, who I was referring to, the one's with that opinion (reportedly), don't care about them, and probably mostly haven't heard of them. Or at least don't follow them. And THEY have seen it. Well, a few of them, anyway, considering the low box office.[/QUOTE]
There are chinese who are snyder stans. Its a world wide cult it seems.
The low box office in China is due to a some local big movie. Nothing to do with WW not having few action or too much romance.
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It’s not just the Snyderbronies that have an axe to grind against WW84, it’s also the Critical Drinker&co who think the movie has a feminist/anti-trump agenda. Interestingly, some feminists have also joined the dog pile because it's not a proper feminist movie unless the lead is a hard-drinking lesbian. WW84 is at once laden with sexist tropes and a grating feminist agenda, it’s hilarious. Ofc, none of that is true
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[QUOTE=VonHammersmark;5290273]It’s not just the Snyderbronies that have an axe to grind against WW84, it’s also the Critical Drinker&co who think the movie has a feminist/anti-trump agenda. Interestingly, some feminists have also joined the dog pile because it's not a proper feminist movie unless the lead is a hard-drinking lesbian. WW84 is at once laden with sexist tropes and a grating feminist agenda, it’s hilarious. Ofc, none of that is true[/QUOTE]
I have to sadly admit that I noticed that when the first film came out. While the Black Panther film seemed to be embraced by a large, LARGE number of people of color, Wonder Woman's feminist icon image was not as embraced by many feminists (of all gender identities) because she was not all things to all [feminist] people. It was exhausting to read all the thinkpieces that condemned the film for not having enough feminism, for having too much Steve, for being too white, too slow, too romantic, for perpetuating facial scarring as villanous trope, for having a lead who was too pretty, for having WW use wedges, for not having Diana be explicitly bisexual...etc etc etc...(<------these are all things I read, not things I necessarily agree with)
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[img]https://i.postimg.cc/KcCHsZQJ/wonder-woman.gif[/img]
Gal Gadot in Instragram
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[QUOTE=FutureWonder;5290319]I have to sadly admit that I noticed that when the first film came out. While the Black Panther film seemed to be embraced by a large, LARGE number of people of color, Wonder Woman's feminist icon image was not as embraced by many feminists (of all gender identities) because she was not all things to all [feminist] people. It was exhausting to read all the thinkpieces that condemned the film for not having enough feminism, for having too much Steve, for being too white, too slow, too romantic, for perpetuating facial scarring as villanous trope, for having a lead who was too pretty, for having WW use wedges, for not having Diana be explicitly bisexual...etc etc etc...(<------these are all things I read, not things I necessarily agree with)[/QUOTE]
Yep, I read that also. Seems that if you don't have certain "aspects" you are condemned. But these people dont know the characters, everything must accommodate their views, not them accepting a character and her history.
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[QUOTE=VonHammersmark;5290273]It’s not just the Snyderbronies that have an axe to grind against WW84, it’s also the Critical Drinker&co who think the movie has a feminist/anti-trump agenda. Interestingly, some feminists have also joined the dog pile because it's not a proper feminist movie unless the lead is a hard-drinking lesbian. WW84 is at once laden with sexist tropes and a grating feminist agenda, it’s hilarious. Ofc, none of that is true[/QUOTE]
Agreed, the WW not being a lesbian has been around years now. Jeez why these people even go to watch a superhero movie? If Its all for them about sex? instead they should just watch porn and keep their mouths shut.
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[QUOTE=VonHammersmark;5289779]WW84 has 5 action set pieces, more than the first Wonder Woman movie. It’s not much the quantity but the quality that’s the issue, the action scenes are fun but not spectacular in any way, shape or form. Plus the climax of the movie is a bit underwhelming which does kinda leave you wanting more. Also Wonder Woman is playing defense the whole time. The Snyder cult fans are gonna rip this movie to shreds, you just wait[/QUOTE]
Just remind the Snyder fans that the most Superman movie is Donner's, and that it had less action than either Wonder Woman film. Also, Man of Steel was ripped to shreds for being nothing more than "Wreck the Lego Set: The Movie".
People came out of that film somewhat traumatized, while they came out of WW 2017 and 1984 uplifted and hopeful.
Diana is truly the North star of the DCEU.
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5289969]I believe Tenet opened on more screens that WW1984 did/will, and it still underperformed, didn't it?
Someone on another forum said China's box office numbers in general, even for domestic releases, aren't doing as hot as expected either though I'm not sure how true that is/am too lazy to look.[/QUOTE]
China's numbers have always been dubious. Hollywood just plays along for headlines.
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[QUOTE=MarFarr;5290162]
[B]Don't make the mistake, They are more than a fringe. They aren't even DC fans. The amount of garbage they say about these characters is unbelievable.[/B] They cut and paste something they read and distort it, from WW should kill Steve (from flashpoint I suspect) not having a romance with him. That Mera was married to Nereus etc. That snyder would have not distorted them as in the movies of Jenkins and Wan. They sound and act like satanic cults, but don't even think they are a fringe.[/QUOTE]
THIS.
They will ignore everything to fit whatever agenda that they have.
They know we are in pandemic and outside factors hurt comic book sales and movie sales. They don't care. Because that film or comic does not PANDER to what they want-they come attacking.
Remember this movie came out in a few theaters last week. Guess what? For many states that was the last week of school until Christmas Break.
And with this coming out online this week-maybe more folks are waiting for that.
Honestly you forget the movie was out because no store is displaying her stuff like they did the first 2 times it was suppose to come out. Heck I haven't see any of the toys in stores.
Unless they did something Justice League (and DC in general) haven't done around this time. SELL OUT like the Marvel stuff has.
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;5290681]THIS.
They will ignore everything to fit whatever agenda that they have.
They know we are in pandemic and outside factors hurt comic book sales and movie sales. They don't care. Because that film or comic does not PANDER to what they want-they come attacking.
Remember this movie came out in a few theaters last week. Guess what? For many states that was the last week of school until Christmas Break.
And with this coming out online this week-maybe more folks are waiting for that.
Honestly you forget the movie was out because no store is displaying her stuff like they did the first 2 times it was suppose to come out. Heck I haven't see any of the toys in stores.
[B]Unless they did something Justice League (and DC in general) haven't done around this time. SELL OUT like the Marvel stuff has.[/B][/QUOTE]
DC is NOT that good at exploiting movies not just about WW, all of their superhero movies, Shazam and Aquaman are other good examples.
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[QUOTE=Castling;5290662]Just remind the Snyder fans that the most Superman movie is Donner's, and that it had less action than either Wonder Woman film. Also, Man of Steel was ripped to shreds for being nothing more than "Wreck the Lego Set: The Movie".
[B]People came out of that film somewhat traumatized,[/B] while they came out of WW 2017 and 1984 uplifted and hopeful.
Diana is truly the North star of the DCEU.[/QUOTE]
I remember one guy coming out of the movie, saying had it been in black and white you wouldn't notice the difference.
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Well, I think I've made it clear that I didn't enjoy the first movie, mostly due to the third act and that ending---for which I've gotten some shade in various places...but you know who else apparently wasn't fond of that ending? Patty Jenkins, who has said the ending was forced on her by WB. Which isn't uncommon, and very rarely ends well.
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[QUOTE=FutureWonder;5290319]I have to sadly admit that I noticed that when the first film came out. While the Black Panther film seemed to be embraced by a large, LARGE number of people of color, Wonder Woman's feminist icon image was not as embraced by many feminists (of all gender identities) because she was not all things to all [feminist] people. It was exhausting to read all the thinkpieces that condemned the film for not having enough feminism, for having too much Steve, for being too white, too slow, too romantic, for perpetuating facial scarring as villanous trope, for having a lead who was too pretty, for having WW use wedges, for not having Diana be explicitly bisexual...etc etc etc...(<------these are all things I read, not things I necessarily agree with)[/QUOTE]
Black Panther also had its detractors among people of color, especially the "Killmonger was right" crowd and those who hated that a CIA agent was depicted as a good guy.
No matter how popular something is, there will always be fringe commenters bashing it.
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[QUOTE=Castling;5290662]Just remind the Snyder fans that the most Superman movie is Donner's, and that it had less action than either Wonder Woman film. Also, Man of Steel was ripped to shreds for being nothing more than "Wreck the Lego Set: The Movie".
People came out of that film somewhat traumatized, while they came out of WW 2017 and 1984 uplifted and hopeful.
Diana is truly the North star of the DCEU.[/QUOTE]
There have also been people who said Snyder's movies helped them with their depression.
Look, we've got bad actors on both sides of this argument. We don't need to turn this into another Snyder vs anti-Snyder thing. There are plenty of people on the anti-Snyder crowd who have behaved deplorably.
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[QUOTE=achilles;5291084]Well, I think I've made it clear that I didn't enjoy the first movie, mostly due to the third act and that ending---for which I've gotten some shade in various places...but you know who else apparently wasn't fond of that ending? Patty Jenkins, who has said the ending was forced on her by WB. Which isn't uncommon, and very rarely ends well.[/QUOTE]
Do you have a source for that, because that's the first time I've heard about anything like that.
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[QUOTE=kjn;5291192]Do you have a source for that, because that's the first time I've heard about anything like that.[/QUOTE]
I think it was Yahoo News picking up from some other source. Back to WW 84 though, I also saw a Yahoo review of it. It liked the movie, thought it was not quite as good as they thought the first movie was, but still very good, a bit long at two and a half hours, some pacing issues in the opening, some dodgy FX in the end, funny scenes with Pine giving a callback to a scene from the first. In general, they quite liked it, thought it was charming and fun.
Edit: Found it. [URL="https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/patty-jenkins-warner-bros-forced-224112477.html"]https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/patty-jenkins-warner-bros-forced-224112477.html[/URL]
Would have been interesting to see what her original ending was. But I don't think she actually got to shoot it.
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[QUOTE=achilles;5291328]Edit: Found it. [URL="https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/patty-jenkins-warner-bros-forced-224112477.html"]https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/patty-jenkins-warner-bros-forced-224112477.html[/URL]
Would have been interesting to see what her original ending was. But I don't think she actually got to shoot it.[/QUOTE]
Thanks!
Interesting that we've never heard a peep about that before. I also wonder when that change was made, especially since Jenkins didn't write the script: Zack Snyder, Allan Heinberg, Geoff Johns, and Jason Fuchs wrote it.
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[url]https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/culture-news/amp35029697/kristen-wiig-gal-gadot-interview-wonder-woman/[/url]
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WW84 rotten tomatoes has dropped to 75!
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I’ve seen the movie now but are we posting pistvrelease discussion here, or will it get its own thread?
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[QUOTE=brettc1;5291914]I’ve seen the movie now [/QUOTE]
Hey Brett, how are you? =)
What score would you give the movie?
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;5291909]WW84 rotten tomatoes has dropped to 75![/QUOTE]
So what, those ratings don't mean that much. They gave movies like Aquaman lower ratings and it was a massive hit.
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Considering the DCEU's early track record, a movie in the 70s range is perfectly fine.
Most CBMs really only warrant that range, IMO.
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[QUOTE=Awonder;5291947]Hey Brett, how are you? =)
What score would you give the movie?[/QUOTE]
Hey there. I know it’s been a while. Crazy, crazy year.
Having given the first one 9.5 out of 10 (the only thing being the poor casting for Ares imo) On first viewing I would give this an 8.
I do know that there is something that is going to make a lot of WW fans go nuts in a very good way
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[QUOTE=achilles;5291084]Well, I think I've made it clear that I didn't enjoy the first movie, mostly due to the third act and that ending---for which I've gotten some shade in various places...but you know who else apparently wasn't fond of that ending? Patty Jenkins, who has said the ending was forced on her by WB. Which isn't uncommon, and very rarely ends well.[/QUOTE]
Patty said she came to love the ending even though it's not what she wanted.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;5291089]Black Panther also had its detractors among people of color, especially the "Killmonger was right" crowd and those who hated that a CIA agent was depicted as a good guy.
No matter how popular something is, there will always be fringe commenters bashing it.[/QUOTE]
A lot of dyed in wool Black Panther fans were upset that Shiri was depicted as "the intelligent one" of the two siblings; not that Shiri was intelligent, but that that particular facet of T'Challa was downplayed.
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So there's a part in the movie that shows some... tonedeafness on the movie's part as seen in this review:
[spoil]For some reason, they decide to have Pedro Pascal’s Max Lord go to Cairo in order to seize the oil rights from a powerful man, Emir Said Bin Abydos, whose magical wish is to regain his ancestral lands and cast out the heathens. Wait, there’s more. Diana and Steve go to stop him, but not before Lord causes a giant wall to rise through Cairo and cut off the poorest people from their water supply, sparking sectarian violence. Then, there’s a huge, drawn-out, stunningly unexciting road chase scene where Diana and Steve fight a private Egyptian security force that’s defending Lord.
This means that Diana messes up a bunch of Egyptians while vehicles marked with Arabic blaze by and/or explode. She also saves a couple of kids, speaking Arabic to them, who gaze upon her worshipfully before being returned to their mother, who is clothed head to toe in black in contrast to Diana’s skin-baring red, blue, and gold ensemble. Whatever they’re trying to say here is nothing good.
My jaw was dropped for however many head-scratching, mind-boggling minutes this mess took, and it was a lot. To have Gadot, an Israeli actress who is already subject to online trolling, debate, and scrutiny for that fact, beating up a bunch of faceless but clearly Arab men in a film that’s meant to take place two years after Israel invaded Lebanon (where Wonder Woman was banned because of Gadot’s nationality) is just astounding to me. Quite frankly, it shocked me so much that it’s going to be my major takeaway from this film.
The optics of causing an actual wall to arise through a country engaged in conflict in the Middle East, cutting off supplies, SPECIFICALLY WATER, to already disenfranchised people, and only our Israeli action star is here to save the day as a savior to the children? How could hundreds of people be involved in this filmmaking decision and still approve it?
Is this meant to call attention to Israel’s wall-building apartheid state and their cutting off of Palestinian water supplies? If not, what are they doing? If so, what does it mean to also have an Israeli star as the hero here? Is Diana meant to be symbolically healing the divide? If this was the intent, it’s done so sloppily as to be insulting. Just as I felt like I was slowly becoming unhinged watching this last night and yelling at my TV screen, I feel unhinged typing out the circumstances of the Egypt Detour here.
Gadot’s involvement and those staggering optics aside, the sequences are just completely unnecessary, the sort of stereotypical BS depictions of “Arabs” that we saw a lot of in the post-9/11 film world. Adding nothing to the plot while serving to be seriously jarring, it’s just baffling that any of this made it to the final cut. They couldn’t have shifted this to something concerning a Soviet oil baron like every other ’80s film, and avoided any kind of controversy? What was returning director Patty Jenkins, who wrote the script with Geoff Johns and Dave Callaham, possibly thinking?[/spoil]
[url]https://www.themarysue.com/review-wonder-woman-1984/#disqus_thread[/url]
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;5292753]So there's a part in the movie that shows some... tonedeafness on the movie's part as seen in this review:
[spoil]For some reason, they decide to have Pedro Pascal’s Max Lord go to Cairo in order to seize the oil rights from a powerful man, Emir Said Bin Abydos, whose magical wish is to regain his ancestral lands and cast out the heathens. Wait, there’s more. Diana and Steve go to stop him, but not before Lord causes a giant wall to rise through Cairo and cut off the poorest people from their water supply, sparking sectarian violence. Then, there’s a huge, drawn-out, stunningly unexciting road chase scene where Diana and Steve fight a private Egyptian security force that’s defending Lord.
This means that Diana messes up a bunch of Egyptians while vehicles marked with Arabic blaze by and/or explode. She also saves a couple of kids, speaking Arabic to them, who gaze upon her worshipfully before being returned to their mother, who is clothed head to toe in black in contrast to Diana’s skin-baring red, blue, and gold ensemble. Whatever they’re trying to say here is nothing good.
My jaw was dropped for however many head-scratching, mind-boggling minutes this mess took, and it was a lot. To have Gadot, an Israeli actress who is already subject to online trolling, debate, and scrutiny for that fact, beating up a bunch of faceless but clearly Arab men in a film that’s meant to take place two years after Israel invaded Lebanon (where Wonder Woman was banned because of Gadot’s nationality) is just astounding to me. Quite frankly, it shocked me so much that it’s going to be my major takeaway from this film.
The optics of causing an actual wall to arise through a country engaged in conflict in the Middle East, cutting off supplies, SPECIFICALLY WATER, to already disenfranchised people, and only our Israeli action star is here to save the day as a savior to the children? How could hundreds of people be involved in this filmmaking decision and still approve it?
Is this meant to call attention to Israel’s wall-building apartheid state and their cutting off of Palestinian water supplies? If not, what are they doing? If so, what does it mean to also have an Israeli star as the hero here? Is Diana meant to be symbolically healing the divide? If this was the intent, it’s done so sloppily as to be insulting. Just as I felt like I was slowly becoming unhinged watching this last night and yelling at my TV screen, I feel unhinged typing out the circumstances of the Egypt Detour here.
Gadot’s involvement and those staggering optics aside, the sequences are just completely unnecessary, the sort of stereotypical BS depictions of “Arabs” that we saw a lot of in the post-9/11 film world. Adding nothing to the plot while serving to be seriously jarring, it’s just baffling that any of this made it to the final cut. They couldn’t have shifted this to something concerning a Soviet oil baron like every other ’80s film, and avoided any kind of controversy? What was returning director Patty Jenkins, who wrote the script with Geoff Johns and Dave Callaham, possibly thinking?[/spoil]
[url]https://www.themarysue.com/review-wonder-woman-1984/#disqus_thread[/url][/QUOTE]
Hmmm.
[spoil]
Wonder Woman isn’t Israeli. She also has to beat up a bunch of US soldiers, White House security, and secret service agents.
She doesn’t say anything about the mothers burka. Personally I found that affirming, not insulting.
Abydos also revokes his wish at the end, reuniting the country. You could equally talk about the Republican president’s wish being to have more nukes than anyone being a sorry stereotype. Not to mention the tensions shown between Englad and Ireland. [/spoil]
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I was actually kind of curious if people we're gonna hate the movie because Gaddot is Israeli and uh...holy crap that is bad.
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[QUOTE=brettc1;5292650]Hey there. I know it’s been a while. Crazy, crazy year.
Having given the first one 9.5 out of 10 (the only thing being the poor casting for Ares imo) On first viewing I would give this an 8.
I do know that there is something that is going to make a lot of WW fans go nuts in a very good way ��[/QUOTE]
I figured that the sequel wouldn't quite live up to the original (few do). Still, an 8 sounds pretty good.
[QUOTE=Agent Z;5292753]So there's a part in the movie that shows some... tonedeafness on the movie's part as seen in this review:
[url]https://www.themarysue.com/review-wonder-woman-1984/#disqus_thread[/url][/QUOTE]
Holy political projections, Batman! When can a movie scene just be a movie scene?
[QUOTE=brettc1;5292781]
[spoil]
Wonder Woman isn’t Israeli. [/spoil][/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure that's not a spoiler. =p
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;5292753]So there's a part in the movie that shows some... tonedeafness on the movie's part as seen in this review:
[spoil]For some reason, they decide to have Pedro Pascal’s Max Lord go to Cairo in order to seize the oil rights from a powerful man, Emir Said Bin Abydos, whose magical wish is to regain his ancestral lands and cast out the heathens. Wait, there’s more. Diana and Steve go to stop him, but not before Lord causes a giant wall to rise through Cairo and cut off the poorest people from their water supply, sparking sectarian violence. Then, there’s a huge, drawn-out, stunningly unexciting road chase scene where Diana and Steve fight a private Egyptian security force that’s defending Lord.
This means that Diana messes up a bunch of Egyptians while vehicles marked with Arabic blaze by and/or explode. She also saves a couple of kids, speaking Arabic to them, who gaze upon her worshipfully before being returned to their mother, who is clothed head to toe in black in contrast to Diana’s skin-baring red, blue, and gold ensemble. Whatever they’re trying to say here is nothing good.
My jaw was dropped for however many head-scratching, mind-boggling minutes this mess took, and it was a lot. To have Gadot, an Israeli actress who is already subject to online trolling, debate, and scrutiny for that fact, beating up a bunch of faceless but clearly Arab men in a film that’s meant to take place two years after Israel invaded Lebanon (where Wonder Woman was banned because of Gadot’s nationality) is just astounding to me. Quite frankly, it shocked me so much that it’s going to be my major takeaway from this film.
The optics of causing an actual wall to arise through a country engaged in conflict in the Middle East, cutting off supplies, SPECIFICALLY WATER, to already disenfranchised people, and only our Israeli action star is here to save the day as a savior to the children? How could hundreds of people be involved in this filmmaking decision and still approve it?
Is this meant to call attention to Israel’s wall-building apartheid state and their cutting off of Palestinian water supplies? If not, what are they doing? If so, what does it mean to also have an Israeli star as the hero here? Is Diana meant to be symbolically healing the divide? If this was the intent, it’s done so sloppily as to be insulting. Just as I felt like I was slowly becoming unhinged watching this last night and yelling at my TV screen, I feel unhinged typing out the circumstances of the Egypt Detour here.
Gadot’s involvement and those staggering optics aside, the sequences are just completely unnecessary, the sort of stereotypical BS depictions of “Arabs” that we saw a lot of in the post-9/11 film world. Adding nothing to the plot while serving to be seriously jarring, it’s just baffling that any of this made it to the final cut. They couldn’t have shifted this to something concerning a Soviet oil baron like every other ’80s film, and avoided any kind of controversy? What was returning director Patty Jenkins, who wrote the script with Geoff Johns and Dave Callaham, possibly thinking?[/spoil]
[url]https://www.themarysue.com/review-wonder-woman-1984/#disqus_thread[/url][/QUOTE]
I can't comment on the depiction of the Arabs until I watch the movie myself, but it's ironic that the article complaining about its tone deafness is quite tone deaf itself. So much attention is brought to Gadot's nationality as if she's personally responsible for everything the Israeli government does. And the character she's playing isn't even Izraeli! I also love the suggestion to switch the evil Arabs for evil Russians, cause that's not an offensive stereotype or anything...
That being said, the movie definitely has...issues (at least from what I've heard). Not sure what Patty Jenkins was thinking with some story choices.
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[QUOTE=brettc1;5292781]Hmmm.
[spoil]
Wonder Woman isn’t Israeli. She also has to beat up a bunch of US soldiers, White House security, and secret service agents.
She doesn’t say anything about the mothers burka. Personally I found that affirming, not insulting.
Abydos also revokes his wish at the end, reuniting the country. You could equally talk about the Republican president’s wish being to have more nukes than anyone being a sorry stereotype. Not to mention the tensions shown between Englad and Ireland. [/spoil][/QUOTE]
That website is known for clickbait outrage trolling. They claimed all negative critic reviews of Captain Marvel was from men which was fake news. They want outrage clicks. Pls ignore them.
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Okay so here goes.
Negatives.
[spoil]
It feels too long. Largely because of the very drama based act two. Needed more action to mix it up.
I wasn’t very happy with WW being deposited for most of the movie. She’s still impressive but I was left a bit dissatisfied.
The whole body stealing thing with Steve. They never even address the fact that a guy’s life has been stolen and Diana seems happy to leave it that way. That was just weird.
The Wish Stone seemed a bit lame.
Not as many laughs as the first movie.
Wasn’t really sold on Diana’s new invisibility power.
The last fight with Cheetsh was mostly in the dark and hard to follow. It also felt a bit too Spider-Man with all the swinging around. [/spoil]
The good :)
[spoil]
Max Lord/Pedro Pascal - just brilliant. Brilliant writing and superbly acted. You can hardly call him the villain here, because his character is so layered. Still, the Duke of Deception line was appreciated ;)
Kirsten Wigg is great as Cheetah and the way her character evolves is very clever.
Wonder Woman SAVES people. Consistently, all through the movie we see her interest in protecting lives. Not to harp on Man of Steel, nut this was sooooooo much better.
The big save at the end and No NECK SNAP. Anyone familiar with the Max Lord story arc by Rucka knows what I mean. Disna shows her greatest power is to change hearts. And again, Pedro Pascsl really sells it.
The cameo at the end.
And.
SHE FLIES! WOO-HOOO! [/spoil]