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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;4401581]Black Manta's arc is carrying over into sequels, so why can't Cheetah's?
Especially as that doesn't prevent any other villains from appearing as well.[/QUOTE]
Yep, and since Patty Jenkins seems set to focus on the personal relation between Barbara Ann Minerve and Diana, and not only on the Wonder Woman–Cheetah antagonism, it's really well suited to a two-film arc where Cheetah is the emerging villain/monster in the first film.
In a way, current-day Diana and Cheetah are much like Professor X and Magneto: powerful people who violently oppose each other but still remain friends in more than one way and deeply respect each other.
Villain churning has become part of the MCU formula, but it's not the only way to make good superhero films.
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[QUOTE=kjn;4402031]Yep, and since Patty Jenkins seems set to focus on the personal relation between Barbara Ann Minerve and Diana, and not only on the Wonder Woman–Cheetah antagonism, it's really well suited to a two-film arc where Cheetah is the emerging villain/monster in the first film.
In a way, current-day Diana and Cheetah are much like Professor X and Magneto: powerful people who violently oppose each other but still remain friends in more than one way and deeply respect each other.
Villain churning has become part of the MCU formula, but it's not the only way to make good superhero films.[/QUOTE]
Professor X Magneto relationship works better with her mother, Artemis, Ares not with Cheetah.
Cheetah does not fit as a Magneto type character since she fights for herself or her interest than some larger interest
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4402071]Professor X Magneto relationship works better with her mother, Artemis, Ares not with Cheetah.
Cheetah does not fit as a Magneto type character since she fights for herself or her interest than some larger interest[/QUOTE]
If you reduce them to just their ideals and not their relationship together, then yeah, Cheetah and Diana don't mix. But the relationship that Diana and Barbara Ann share is very reminiscent of Charles and Erik.
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;4402338]If you reduce them to just their ideals and not their relationship together, then yeah, Cheetah and Diana don't mix. But the relationship that Diana and Barbara Ann share is very reminiscent of Charles and Erik.[/QUOTE]
I see Cheetah as more of Dark Pheonix Jean than Magneto. Diana trying to save her and the world from her dark powers
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[QUOTE=richalex;4400850]Because The Cheetah is her Main villain. This is like asking why do we keep seeing Lex Luthor. Barbara Ann or even Priscilla should be treated as her Lex Luthor/Joker. And the more often we see her, and she's treated with respect, power and fear, the more she can turn into that type of villain for Diana.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree, Cheetah will never be a worthy arch-nemesis to Wonder Woman unless somebody puts in the effort to build her up as such, and gets the ball rolling
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[QUOTE=VonHammersmark;4402483]Totally agree, Cheetah will never be a worthy arch-nemesis to Wonder Woman unless somebody puts in the effort to build her up as such, and gets the ball rolling[/QUOTE]
I can only see the Cheetah as someone that got knocked out by Batman by one punch (dismissively) and outfought by a non superpowered Catwoman.
Not really the worthy arch-nemesis that Wonder Woman should have.
But hey, maybe Diana will fly in the movie, albeit not under her own power.
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[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;4402769]I can only see the Cheetah as someone that got knocked out by Batman by one punch (dismissively) and outfought by a non superpowered Catwoman.
Not really the worthy arch-nemesis that Wonder Woman should have.[/QUOTE]
If that's all you can see is two maybe three instances where Barbara Ann was written horribly, instead of the many other issues,especially as written by Perez, Simone, Jimenez, Johns and Rucka, where she was written as a terrifying powerhouse, well that's pretty bad and you are only seeing what you want to see.
There are far more stories with her written correctly than incorrectly.
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[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;4402769]I can only see the Cheetah as someone that got knocked out by Batman by one punch (dismissively) and outfought by a non superpowered Catwoman.
Not really the worthy arch-nemesis that Wonder Woman should have.
But hey, maybe Diana will fly in the movie, albeit not under her own power.[/QUOTE]
Batman has also done that to Aquaman, WW, etc. Bad writng proves nothing. Cheetah needs to be treated with respect to buil her up as an archy villain. She has potential.
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[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;4402769]I can only see the Cheetah as someone that got knocked out by Batman by one punch (dismissively) and outfought by a non superpowered Catwoman.
Not really the worthy arch-nemesis that Wonder Woman should have.
But hey, maybe Diana will fly in the movie, albeit not under her own power.[/QUOTE]
Cheetah does have a terrible track-record but I'm hoping this movie turns her luck around
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4402071]Professor X Magneto relationship works better with her mother, Artemis, Ares not with Cheetah.
Cheetah does not fit as a Magneto type character since she fights for herself or her interest than some larger interest[/QUOTE]
No two arch enemy match ups are the same. When people compare them to Xavier/Magneto it's because that's another classic hero/villain match up with a complicated love/hate dynamic. Not simplifying it to her literally being Magneto with tits.
[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4402378]I see Cheetah as more of Dark Pheonix Jean than Magneto. Diana trying to save her and the world from her dark powers[/QUOTE]
She's nowhere close to a Dark Phoenix. And that's not a problem at all, as few other rogues galleries even have a figure like that.
[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;4402769]I can only see the Cheetah as someone that got knocked out by Batman by one punch (dismissively) and outfought by a non superpowered Catwoman.
Not really the worthy arch-nemesis that Wonder Woman should have.[/QUOTE]
The problem is you're reading appearances by her by Batman writers who don't give a crap about Wonder Woman and letting them dictate how you view the character. Read Perez, Jimenez and Rucka. And Batman will not be appearing in this film, and the majority of people who will see it will never pick up a comic book, so who cares?
Or blame Marston. He's the one who established Cheetah as one of her primary enemies, which lead to subsequent usage and revamps. It's not a matter of "should," she straight up is the arch nemesis thanks to comic book survival of the fittest. She made it from 1944 to now when few other recurring enemies did. And the other contenders for the throne, Ares and Circe, aren't exactly swimming in great stories themselves and the latter has nowhere near the other media presence.
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[QUOTE=Gaelforce;4394157]I don't think anyone has said it was to fight Cheetah. All we have is the picture and a lot of speculation :)[/QUOTE]
Personally, I believe the armor comes into play with the Soviet Union aspect of the film, which Patty Jenkins had announced plays a role in #WW84.
Diana wears a golden armor when battling gods, enemies in outer space, and facing...nukes.
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WW84 screened yesterday:
[I]"The word I’ve heard: it’s a big romance movie, a little slow right now, good and could be great by the time it comes out. Basically: it good, y’all."[/I]
[url]https://twitter.com/ViewerAnon/[/url]
We'll hear more in the next hours/days.
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[QUOTE=Last Son of Krypton;4409336]WW84 screened yesterday:
[I]"The word I’ve heard: it’s a big romance movie, a little slow right now, good and could be great by the time it comes out. Basically: it good, y’all."[/I]
[url]https://twitter.com/ViewerAnon/[/url]
We'll hear more in the next hours/days.[/QUOTE]
Slow movie?
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[QUOTE=starlight25;4409391]Slow movie?[/QUOTE]
The pacing of the cut of WW84 shown is slow, but the film is still far from the final cut, so it could be fixed before the release.
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[QUOTE=Last Son of Krypton;4409394]The pacing of the cut of WW84 shown is slow, but the film is still far from the final cut, so it could be fixed before the release.[/QUOTE]
The action of the first movie wasn't very good. I'd like to see an improvement in WW84. The pacing was also awful at times. So that needs to improve as well.
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[QUOTE=starlight25;4409397][B]The action of the first movie wasn't very good.[/B] I'd like to see an improvement in WW84. The pacing was also awful at times. So that needs to improve as well.[/QUOTE]
I didn't like the slow-motion during the fight scenes, I'd prefer it to be abandoned in the sequel.
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[QUOTE=Last Son of Krypton;4409402]I didn't like the slow-motion during the fight scenes, I'd prefer it to be abandoned in the sequel.[/QUOTE]
I need the sequel to improve the things that were the weak point of the first movie like the action scenes. Things related to WW usually feel like they are not done with passion. Like they do the bare minimum with her. I want to trust Patty and think she will try her best to do the character justice.
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“A big romance movie”? Umm...
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Let's hope Cheetah is done well. I wonder if Steve will die again or much like the comics he stays live.
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[QUOTE=greymoon;4410367]“A big romance movie”? Umm...[/QUOTE]
It looks Patty played up the romance angle in the sequel:
[I]"The first reactions from the Wonder Woman 1984 test screening are overwhelmingly positive: it is described as a romantic adventure with many emotional moments between Diana and Steve."[/I]
[url]https://twitter.com/WonderWoman84HQ/status/1139910838972821505[/url]
[I]
"Remember when I said #wonderwoman84 would be something completely different from the first in almost every way? They are really embracing the 80s vibe and romantic elements"[/I]
[url]https://twitter.com/TheComixKid/status/1139928440050606080[/url]
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4410408]I wonder if Steve will die again or much like the comics he stays live.[/QUOTE]
Pine thinks his character is done: [url]https://www.etonline.com/chris-pine-shares-thoughts-on-his-wonder-woman-characters-fate-in-future-sequels-exclusive-118116[/url]
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I personally don’t care about Diana and Steve’s relationship, it’s never been important to WW’s character and has never defined her. I hope we get a good cohesive story with WW getting great feats. Let’s hope Cheetah is done well. Someone should ask Patty Jenkins if Wondy can fly and what her powers are. I don’t want them to gloss over action with “romance” too much.
When do you think the first trailer will drop?
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[QUOTE=greymoon;4410612]I personally don’t care about Diana and Steve’s relationship, it’s never been important to WW’s character and has never defined her. I hope we get a good cohesive story with WW getting great feats. Let’s hope Cheetah is done well. Someone should ask Patty Jenkins if Wondy can fly and what her powers are. I don’t want them to gloss over action with “romance” too much.
When do you think the first trailer will drop?[/QUOTE]
I expect a full trailer for December when the movie's promotion will start [url]https://twitter.com/PattyJenks/status/1136346983680151558[/url] but maybe we'll get a teaser trailer earlier. 🤔
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[QUOTE=greymoon;4410612]I personally don’t care about Diana and Steve’s relationship, it’s never been important to WW’s character and has never defined her. I hope we get a good cohesive story with WW getting great feats. Let’s hope Cheetah is done well. Someone should ask Patty Jenkins if Wondy can fly and what her powers are. I don’t want them to gloss over action with “romance” too much.
When do you think the first trailer will drop?[/QUOTE]
I like Steve being around primarily to avoid WW being shipped out to Batman or Superman. But I also hope the movie don't focus too much on romance instead focus on Cheetah and Diana's relationship and God level fights
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Just an overall note to make sure we keep this thread on track.
Discuss what has been announced, but let's not let this devolve into a 'what I want' in the movie.
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Here is another review
[url]https://mobile.twitter.com/DCEU_Updates/status/1139871169400770560[/url]
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4410875]Here is another review
[url]https://mobile.twitter.com/DCEU_Updates/status/1139871169400770560[/url][/QUOTE]
This is good to hear.
"Spy romance" is kind of a swerve. Maybe not totally unexpected with the "1984" stuff, but I'm curious to see how they are going to squeeze all this into that theme. I don't care if the film is "slow" and romantic, as long as it is deliberately paced and has strong character work and the action we DO get is good.
The good buzz for Wiig is especially great to hear. She's my most anticipated element.
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Spy romance is a little odd - simply because there didn't seem to be any obvious "spy" elements in the film based on the set reports (although Diana could be working for a spy agency or the villain could have ties to some kind of "evil" spy organisation).
But, a romantic comedy adventure along the lines of Romancing the Stone is ... interesting. It's going to be a long wait until it's 1984 again!
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List of Important Elements:
A good story that shows how WW:
a) Kicks good arse...this was the premise of all superhero comics
b) great character interaction
c) Steve Trevor is fine, but it's not his movie and he should not be the star.
I hope Gal Gadot has been working on her acting.
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[QUOTE=Titan Theo;4411871]List of Important Elements:
A good story that shows how WW:
a) Kicks good arse...this was the premise of all superhero comics
b) great character interaction
c) Steve Trevor is fine, but it's not his movie and he should not be the star.
I hope Gal Gadot has been working on her acting.[/QUOTE]
And from the test screening that A and C part are doubtful
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4411873]And from the test screening that A and C part are doubtful[/QUOTE]
Please cite evidence or refrain from making such statements.
Do you have any quotes from the test screening that say that Diana doesn't kick ass, or that Steve Trevor is the star of the film?
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It's a spoilers thread, so I'll leave it here, click it at your own risk:
[B]EXCLUSIVE: Plot, Character Details Revealed For ‘Wonder Woman: 1984’:[/B] [url]http://www.thathashtagshow.com/2019/06/17/exclusive-plot-character-details-revealed-for-wonder-woman-1984/[/url]
Take it with a grain of salt anyway. ;)
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[QUOTE=Gaelforce;4411999]Please cite evidence or refrain from making such statements.
Do you have any quotes from the test screening that say that Diana doesn't kick ass, or that Steve Trevor is the star of the film?[/QUOTE]
I am sorry but if the fight scenes, CGI and power level were good. Wouldn't they be saying positive things about that.
Aquaman test screening was all about how incredible the CGI and underwater action was.
Test Screening usually is about what is the best things about thing about the movie and if the action was really good they would mention it.
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[QUOTE=Last Son of Krypton;4412319]It's a spoilers thread, so I'll leave it here, click it at your own risk:
[B]EXCLUSIVE: Plot, Character Details Revealed For ‘Wonder Woman: 1984’:[/B] [url]http://www.thathashtagshow.com/2019/06/17/exclusive-plot-character-details-revealed-for-wonder-woman-1984/[/url]
Take it with a grain of salt anyway. ;)[/QUOTE]
Wow, thank you.
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[url]https://www.comicbookmovie.com/wonder_woman/wonder_woman_1984/wonder-woman-1984-spoilers-new-plot-and-character-details-revealed-about-the-sequel-a168986?fbclid=IwAR0ec_bYDpYurPajJRBIWOFxYbgXbGDaeIRJ-VYN0_5EOxJ-UV8d6Z7pCzA[/url]
Interesting
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4412362]I am sorry but if the fight scenes, CGI and power level were good. Wouldn't they be saying positive things about that.
Aquaman test screening was all about how incredible the CGI and underwater action was.
Test Screening usually is about what is the best things about thing about the movie and if the action was really good they would mention it.[/QUOTE]
Considering how early this test screening is and that the fx aren't completed, and that we've only got really vague responses and hints, I disagree.
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That also assumes that the rumours around test screenings are in fact true. And no, I generally don't think that whatever happens to be posted on thiscooldmoviesite.com is worth getting worked up about or discuss.
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4412362]I am sorry but if the fight scenes, CGI and power level were good. Wouldn't they be saying positive things about that.
Aquaman test screening was all about how incredible the CGI and underwater action was.
Test Screening usually is about what is the best things about thing about the movie and if the action was really good they would mention it.[/QUOTE]
Aquaman was also a "shut your brain off and enjoy the spectacle" kind of movie, so of course those were the big takeaways along with Momoa's shirtless self. Similarly, Godzilla: KOTM got a lot of good buzz in the lead up for the monster spectacle, but got trashed by critics. Undeservedly overall IMO, but the main point of that movie was CGI/spectacle over the performances.
This buzz focusing on the performances, especially the villain, is hopefully a good indicator that this film will be more than a mindless pretty picture show. If the buzz was all about the CGI and the action, I'd actually be kind of worried. Story and acting is better, and this tweet doesn't indicate anything else about the movie lacking in action. Because if it's good action, it will be lumped in with the rest of it.
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[QUOTE=Last Son of Krypton;4412319]It's a spoilers thread, so I'll leave it here, click it at your own risk:
[B]EXCLUSIVE: Plot, Character Details Revealed For ‘Wonder Woman: 1984’:[/B] [url]http://www.thathashtagshow.com/2019/06/17/exclusive-plot-character-details-revealed-for-wonder-woman-1984/[/url]
Take it with a grain of salt anyway. ;)[/QUOTE]
Thank you. Interesting. I don't particularly like it, but I can understand the reasons behind that approach. I hope that this doesn't detract from Barbara's agency too much.
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[QUOTE=Gaelforce;4412696]Considering how early this test screening is and that the fx aren't completed, and that we've only got really vague responses and hints, I disagree.[/QUOTE]
The movie was suppose to release in November. Remember. It is finished. It was only postponed because of Frozen 2.
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4413405]The movie was suppose to release in November. Remember. It is finished. It was only postponed because of Frozen 2.[/QUOTE]
Source? Especially since there are three weeks between November 1 (original release date for WW84) and November 22 (Frozen 2 release date).
Meanwhile, [URL="https://movieweb.com/wonder-woman-2-release-date-change-patty-jenkins-responds/"]WW84's production team[/URL] were all lobbying for the 2020 summer release.