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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4725240]Was Johns still an advisor when they made this movie? That's my first thought when I saw Max Lord being used but having only that one connection in the comics.[/QUOTE]
Depends on what is meant by "made", but I think he was still around in the early scripting stages, and those are probably what matters here.
Even if think that it's probable that they could easily swap out Maxwell Lord and insert Doctor Psycho in the movie without any sort of hiccup.
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I also wish that the writers had chosen a main baddie that is more closely associated with classic WW mythos than Max Lord, but I guess it is what it is.
If i had been up to me, the second WW film would have featured Dr. Psycho and Silver Swan, and the third one would have been Circe and Cheetah (in my opinion, it would make sense to connect the witch who turned men into animals with Barbara Minerva). Oh, well.
I still loved the trailer and it left me very intrigued. Is Diana running after Cheetah in that scene where we see her zooming down the highway? What is going on when she rides the thunderbolts? What exactly is the deal with Max? Is he really Max? I find it odd that they revealed the identity of the alleged main baddie so early after they kept Ares so close to the vest for so long during the first movie's marketing blitz. Maybe he will end up being Dr. Psycho after all, and "Max Lord" is just the fake identity he chooses.
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Lord also fits the 80's excess as well perhaps. Amoral self-serving businessman and all that. Especially since they seem to have really made him channel 80's Trump here as well.
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I wonder if Max Lord is actually Ares reborn, hence the lightning bolts in the trailer. And there's even a precedent for that in Earth One.
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I think the lightning might be there to show how Diana has improved as using her abilities over the decades.
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[QUOTE=kjn;4725269]Depends on what is meant by "made", but I think he was still around in the early scripting stages, and those are probably what matters here.
Even if think that it's probable that they could easily swap out Maxwell Lord and insert Doctor Psycho in the movie without any sort of hiccup.[/QUOTE]
Scripting sounds right. Whichever stage where he can suggest who can be the villain.
[QUOTE=Punisher007;4725290]Lord also fits the 80's excess as well perhaps. Amoral self-serving businessman and all that. Especially since they seem to have really made him channel 80's Trump here as well.[/QUOTE]
He's created in the 80s for JLI. 3 1987 to be exact. Just 3 years after this movie's set.
So that's three reasons why I guess. JLI is unknown to the DCEU, but Wonder Woman is, so they use Wonder Woman instead.
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[QUOTE=FutureWonder;4725272]What exactly is the deal with Max? Is he really Max? I find it odd that they revealed the identity of the alleged main baddie so early after they kept Ares so close to the vest for so long during the first movie's marketing blitz. Maybe he will end up being Dr. Psycho after all, and "Max Lord" is just the fake identity he chooses.[/QUOTE]
This is where my head has been going... The possibility that Steve is real and brought back from the dead and Lord is a seemingly-real, psychic/ectoplasmic construction of Doctor Psycho. The 80s fit the time period of where third wave of feminism fought against the establishment of patriarchy and began to define itself versus the issues they saw and experienced in second wave feminism.
I can see Doctor Pyscho fearing and hating that and creating a charismatic and handsome persona to try and combat it and seek to punish women for it.
Barbara Minerva could fit into that storyline as a young woman living through that era and searching for herself and her power in juxtaposition to Diana and Wonder Woman. (Who may not have been heard from in a while or only in whispers since WWI.)
In 80s pop culture and movies, women characters were still largely arm candy or the "girlfriend" in film, and possibly the only lead or major supporting character in a cast that was overwhelmingly about men characters and their relationships. Tokenism was just starting dissolve and yet I can remember a bunch of films where the action heroine got maybe one scene where she punches a bad guy or is set up for a "cat fight" scene against her opposite number villainess in the film.
I kinda hope WW84 says something interesting about this via film.
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What I like about the movie
No sword and shield
Music
Pedro Pascal one of my favourite actors
Her lassoing lighting
Cinematography
Using lasso as a weapon
Her not killing anyone
Gold armour looks great
What I don't like
Cheetah is clearly sidelined like Dr Poison in first movie. Not even glimpse of her in trailer
There is no reason for the movie to bring Maxwell Lord and find a ridiculous way to make him Godlike when they could have brought Circe or any other Greek Gods.
There was no reason to bring Steve Trevor back instead of introducing character like Wonder Girl, Cheetah or Artemis to be Diana's partner
The way Cheetah is defeated according to leaks is really bad in my opinion
WW is still not a public hero
Amazons are ignored
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I mean this is the first trailer. Maybe they don’t want to give us everything. Also we do see the Amazons and Diana as a little girl training with antipope.
I’m curious since WB they will be doing reboot for certain things. You guys think Steve will come back or at least stand alive.
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There are rumors that they might just start quietly, ignoring, a lot of what Snyder did. But I'm not sure how true that is.
And given how different Diana is characterized in BVS and JL vs. The end of her first film, I can see why they might do that.
And like I said before, perhaps they're holding off on showing Cheetah in her cat form, they did show Barbara several times after all, until they're sure the effects are done well enough.
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4725469]What I like about the movie
No sword and shield
Music
Pedro Pascal one of my favourite actors
Her lassoing lighting
Cinematography
Using lasso as a weapon
Her not killing anyone
Gold armour looks great
What I don't like
Cheetah is clearly sidelined like Dr Poison in first movie. Not even glimpse of her in trailer
There is no reason for the movie to bring Maxwell Lord and find a ridiculous way to make him Godlike when they could have brought Circe or any other Greek Gods.
There was no reason to bring Steve Trevor back instead of introducing character like Wonder Girl, Cheetah or Artemis to be Diana's partner
The way Cheetah is defeated according to leaks is really bad in my opinion
[B]WW is still not a public hero[/B]
Amazons are ignored[/QUOTE]
Normally, I'd say seems like WW is still tied to aspects of Snyder's (unfortunate) timeline, but Chris Pine's return does mean we need to wait and see what's up exactly.
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4725469]What I like about the movie
No sword and shield
Music
Pedro Pascal one of my favourite actors
Her lassoing lighting
Cinematography
Using lasso as a weapon
Her not killing anyone
Gold armour looks great
What I don't like
Cheetah is clearly sidelined like Dr Poison in first movie. Not even glimpse of her in trailer
There is no reason for the movie to bring Maxwell Lord and find a ridiculous way to make him Godlike when they could have brought Circe or any other Greek Gods.
There was no reason to bring Steve Trevor back instead of introducing character like Wonder Girl, Cheetah or Artemis to be Diana's partner
The way Cheetah is defeated according to leaks is really bad in my opinion
WW is still not a public hero
Amazons are ignored[/QUOTE]
How are the Amazons ignored when they are right there in the trailer?
Also, I think it's a stretch to say that Cheetah will be as secondary as Doctor Poison was in the first film. They are clearly building a fleshed out origin story for her. And bear in mind the plan was to have a JL vs. Legion of Doom movie originally, where Cheetah would have returned. It's why Black Manta, also the archnemesis of his respective superhero, was not the primary villain in his first appearance. I'm assuming now the plan would be to bring them back in Wonder Woman 3 and Aquaman 2 respectively.
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[QUOTE=Confuzzled;4725642]How are the Amazons ignored when they are right there in the trailer?
Also, I think it's a stretch to say that Cheetah will be as secondary as Doctor Poison was in the first film. They are clearly building a fleshed out origin story for her. And bear in mind the plan was to have a JL vs. Legion of Doom movie originally, where Cheetah would have returned. It's why Black Manta, also the archnemesis of his respective superhero, was not the primary villain in his first appearance. I'm assuming now the plan would be to bring them back in Wonder Woman 3 and Aquaman 2 respectively.[/QUOTE]
My thoughts exactly. Dr. Poison's actress did not get third billing like Kristin Wiig does either, she is definitely not going to have that small of a role.
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Also she got one of the four posters, along with Diana, Steve, and Lord. That's pretty telling.
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4725469]Cheetah is clearly sidelined like Dr Poison in first movie. Not even glimpse of her in trailer
There is no reason for the movie to bring Maxwell Lord and find a ridiculous way to make him Godlike when they could have brought Circe or any other Greek Gods.
There was no reason to bring Steve Trevor back instead of introducing character like Wonder Girl, Cheetah or Artemis to be Diana's partner
The way Cheetah is defeated according to leaks is really bad in my opinion
WW is still not a public hero
Amazons are ignored[/QUOTE]
Barbara is literally the second person we see in the trailer, and is clearly set up as important to Diana. To me, it's rather clear that the Barbara-Diana relation is the most important one in the movie.
Agree that Maxwell Lord is unneeded (would much rather see them using Doctor Psycho), but I'm not going to judge the quality of the trailer on that fact. Heck, maybe they'll manage to redeem Maxwell Lord as a real Wonder Woman villain, and finally move us past that bloody necksnap.
We get Cheetah, you know?
Leaks are leaks. Final execution >>>>> leaks.
As Confuzzled says, we will get to see more Themyscira and Amazons. In what way or how much I have no idea, but at least we know we will get to see more of them.
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Dammit, couldn't help myself and joined in on some of those spoilers/rumors. If accurate, the Steve situation seems really interesting and powerful, emotion-wise. Reinforces my belief that this movie's going to be fire and actually quite a bit better than the first.
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Interview with Patty and Gal: [url]https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/wonder-woman-director-patty-jenkins-considering-amazon-spinoff-1260683[/url]
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Watched the trailer. It was good but somehow it didn't give me chills or big emotion. Mulan trailers did.
Really not sure how to feel and seeing Steve back. Makes his death meaningless. We'll see how I feel once I see the whole movie.
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[QUOTE=stargazer01;4725857]....Really not sure how to feel and seeing Steve back. [U]Makes his death meaningless. [/U] We'll see how I feel once I see the whole movie.[/QUOTE]
I agree that Steve shouldn't have returned (maybe in the next movie or further down the road) for this very reason.
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I don't know how much weight this will hold because I'm not a proponent in the first place that bringing him back makes anything meaningless. But if the things I've read are true, I think even those in this particular camp will be very satisfied with how his return plays out.
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For what I’ve seen the trailer reception by the audience is very amazing. What do you think? Do you have the same feedback?
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I love love love how she has some of the best Choreographed fighting in movies period. It looks like she's dancing and I love it. However, i need to see some MoS level destruction and tossing buildings and planes. Real Strength feats. I can never understand why they don't show the women characters this way.
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4725469]What I like about the movie
No sword and shield
Music
Pedro Pascal one of my favourite actors
Her lassoing lighting
Cinematography
Using lasso as a weapon
Her not killing anyone
Gold armour looks great
What I don't like
Cheetah is clearly sidelined like Dr Poison in first movie. Not even glimpse of her in trailer
There is no reason for the movie to bring Maxwell Lord and find a ridiculous way to make him Godlike when they could have brought Circe or any other Greek Gods.
There was no reason to bring Steve Trevor back instead of introducing character like Wonder Girl, Cheetah or Artemis to be Diana's partner
The way Cheetah is defeated according to leaks is really bad in my opinion
WW is still not a public hero
Amazons are ignored[/QUOTE]
she not sidelined we will get a glimpse of her in march 3 months out
I cant believe the whole movie was spoiled
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4725469]What I like about the movie
No sword and shield
Music
Pedro Pascal one of my favourite actors
Her lassoing lighting
Cinematography
Using lasso as a weapon
Her not killing anyone
Gold armour looks great
What I don't like
Cheetah is clearly sidelined like Dr Poison in first movie. Not even glimpse of her in trailer
There is no reason for the movie to bring Maxwell Lord and find a ridiculous way to make him Godlike when they could have brought Circe or any other Greek Gods.
There was no reason to bring Steve Trevor back instead of introducing character like Wonder Girl, Cheetah or Artemis to be Diana's partner
The way Cheetah is defeated according to leaks is really bad in my opinion
WW is still not a public hero
Amazons are ignored[/QUOTE]
I'm with you on all of the 'likes,' but have to respectfully disagree with you regarding some of your dislikes.
- The trailer was about 2 1/2 minutes long, which I don't think is nearly enough to say that Cheetah has been sidelined. My best guess is that Max Lord is going to grant both their wishes and we're going to see how, over the course of the movie, their wish fulfillments reach their conclusions. I just think they're keeping Cheetah under wraps. Odds are we'll see more of Barbara, which, to me, is a good thing - character development > super battles, and I think Cheetah's final conclusion is going to lead to a great character arc as well as an epic battle at the end.
- I sort of agree with you here, but it looks like Max is just a guy with a magic item. We don't yet know how/where he got that item. For all we know, the credits stinger will show us Circe is behind it all! I think we need to say how this actually plays out.
- I don't see Steve and any Amazon as being mutually exclusive. He is, according to Patty, a key part of the plotline (I'm assuming he's Diana's wish fulfillment). Barbara/Cheetah already is in the movie a great deal, and, considering the DCEU is taking the 'Diana is alone and separated from the Amazons' approach, until that issue is solved, I don't see how/why to add any other Amazons. How many Batman movies have we had without Robin/Batgirl/Batwoman? How many Superman movies without Superboy/Supergirl? In Diana's 2nd outing, we're adding two new characters to explore (Barbara and Max), and I don't want this movie to suffer from becoming too crowded.
- Leaks do not equal actuality and really have nothing to do with the trailer, to be honest. I haven't heard anything official and doubt we will, and leaks so far have proven to be untrue so far as I've seen.
- That Diana is still not a public hero is not definite, though I won't be surprised if they go that way. She is trying to stay on the down low, for reasons I'm hoping we'll see, but she's still acting as a superhero. It sort of walks the line between what Snyder set up and what Jenkins wants to do - she didn't abandon mankind, but she doesn't go big and flashy, either. Then again, who knows - by the end of the movie, she may be well known.
- This last one is just does not seem to be true as there are a few shots of the Amazons in the trailer. Clearly they aren't being ignored (not to mention they're supposedly getting their own movie)
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On a separate note, Patty Jenkins is getting her own Pop Vinyl!
[url]https://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-1984-director-patty-jenkins-funko-pop/[/url]
[IMG]https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/47730-POPDirectors-PattyJenkins-POP-RENDERS-WEB-16a09b9197f79624f00f24388c1a9bd8.png?q=50&fit=crop&w=737&h=737&dpr=1.5[/IMG]
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Also, Ares was not in the first movie trailers at all. He wasn't even mentioned until the TV spots, and he's the driving motivation.
So this trailer is just a teaser, of Wonder Woman's power and armor, of Steve's return, and the glimpse of villains, but how they relate to each other or to Diana was still unclear. Right now they're just showcasing the 84 themes because of the title.
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I read the full leaked plot summary on Reddit. Not sure if it's true, but a lot of it lines up with what we saw in the trailer.
[spoil]Not sure how I feel about the Cheetah plot. Doesn't sound like she is being set up as an ongoing arch nemesis, and her arc sounds wrapped up in this one. Albeit in a fitting way for this movie's story. It sounds solid for a one shot film, but I'd be disappointed if this is all we get in the film series[/spoil]
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;4726523]I read the full leaked plot summary on Reddit. Not sure if it's true, but a lot of it lines up with what we saw in the trailer.
[spoil]Not sure how I feel about the Cheetah plot. Doesn't sound like she is being set up as an ongoing arch nemesis, and her arc sounds wrapped up in this one. Albeit in a fitting way for this movie's story. It sounds solid for a one shot film, but I'd be disappointed if this is all we get in the film series[/spoil][/QUOTE]
It is true, they posted it before trailer and pretty much lines up scene for scene with trailer.
Wonder Woman main problem has always been how her villains are treated compared to Batman, Superman and even Shazam.
First Ares and Dr Poison and now Cheetah.
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I haven't read the leaked plot but through the comments all over the internet I still get the picture about what's going on.
[spoil]does it look like Odyssey that at the end everything just resume normal and the whole event like never happened.[/spoil]
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4726646]It is true, they posted it before trailer and pretty much lines up scene for scene with trailer.
Wonder Woman main problem has always been how her villains are treated compared to Batman, Superman and even Shazam.
First Ares and Dr Poison and now Cheetah.[/QUOTE]
Its all in execution though. Her arc sounds better than theirs as it ties into Diana's pretty well and she will actually be a character.
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;4726523]I read the full leaked plot summary on Reddit. Not sure if it's true, but a lot of it lines up with what we saw in the trailer.
[spoil]Not sure how I feel about the Cheetah plot. Doesn't sound like she is being set up as an ongoing arch nemesis, and her arc sounds wrapped up in this one. Albeit in a fitting way for this movie's story. It sounds solid for a one shot film, but I'd be disappointed if this is all we get in the film series[/spoil][/QUOTE]
Not sure if this is the best way to respond, but, just in case...
[spoil]To be fair, the movie versions of super-villains tend to be "one and done", rarely do they show up in a sequel movie. So, if there is another WW film after this one, I doubt you'll see the Cheetah again.[/spoil]
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As far as this trailer is only concerned,
I dig the music
I dig the outfits
I dig the lasso
I dig the subtle humor so far
I did not dig the way WW uses her lasso; it's like a spaghetti noodle
I did not dig the way she lands her jumps
I did not dig the fightiing scenes compared to Marvel's fight scenes (Black Widow)
But it's only the trailer, so who knows?
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;4726646]It is true, they posted it before trailer and pretty much lines up scene for scene with trailer.
Wonder Woman main problem has always been how her villains are treated compared to Batman, Superman and even Shazam.
First Ares and Dr Poison and now Cheetah.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, movie villains in general are one-shot takes that are permanently defeated in one film. Even Batman and Superman.
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I read snippets of the leak and [spoil]I don't think you can really compare Ares to Cheetah. The showing doesn't seem great but she's at least a prominent part of the film which the other two don't have going for them.[/spoil]
Though Dr. Poison was definitely memorable in her smallish role so I don't think anyone can really slam her as being poor treatment for WW's rogues.
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;4727268]I read snippets of the leak and [spoil]I don't think you can really compare Ares to Cheetah. The showing doesn't seem great but she's at least a prominent part of the film which the other two don't have going for them.[/spoil]
Though Dr. Poison was definitely memorable in her smallish role so I don't think anyone can really slam her as being poor treatment for WW's rogues.[/QUOTE]
[spoil]Agreed. And I think the scene were Diana fights the fully transformed Minerva has the potential to be cool if its executed well. I'm warming up to it the more I mull it over. I think my major issue is that her arc seems wrapped up at the end when she recants her wish, whereas I was hoping she wouldn't. Everything else at least sounds pretty dramatic though, she kicks Diana's ass in at least two scenes and one is when Diana has her powers back. And she's the one who wrecks her armor! I hope it isn't a quick battle...[/spoil]
I agree that I liked Poison in her capacity. That's about appropriate for who she is in the grand scheme of the WW mythos. Comparing Cheetah to either her or even Ares in terms of importance to their respective films seems like hyperbole. Barbara's a much bigger factor here if this summary is true.
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Not a fan of what I'm hearing about Cheetah's role. This kind of arc is much more fitting for the original Silver Swan.
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From what I can tell, the film is finished now, though Patty Jenkins still works on fine-tuning it. They could probably have done the original November release, but it'd have been a lot more hectic for her and the postproduction crew. I think the finished product will prove her right in delaying it to next year.
We will have to see how Cheetah ends looking up on screen, but given the trailer they are working hard on making sure that there is a lot of emotional groundwork done on Diana's and Barbara's relation. That's something that's all too often missing in superhero movies.
And yes. I agree that Doctor Poison was easily the most memorable of the villains of the first movie. That scene with her and Steve Trevor at the gala was a real highlight. I'd have loved to see more of her in the movie, but in a way, it's better to see too little of a character than it is to see too much.
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Dr. Poison and general what's-his-face going full Boris and Natasha when tossing that one gas mask into the room (that won't work) was wonderful. I love her for that alone.
[QUOTE=Psy-lock;4727363]Not a fan of what I'm hearing about Cheetah's role. This kind of arc is much more fitting for the original Silver Swan.[/QUOTE]
[spoil]It does sound similar to Priscilla Rich or Deborah Domaine though. All three of the iconic Cheetahs are probably being used as a blueprint for her[/spoil]
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[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;4706430]She has yet to fly under her own power in any of her appearances in the DCEU. She has at best, hovered, and even that was somewhat ambiguous in her own movie. She is shown to be super leaping, possibly flying at the end of her movie, but this is just another ambiguous scene that can divide people one way or another.
If she can fly, then why hasn't she shown this ability in all the other movies she has been in? Why is this still a question to fans after all this time? Why and how does Cyborg fly before Wondy can, given that she has done this under her own power for the past 35 years or so? The only exceptions being the DCEU, her own animated movie, the first part of Justice League in the nu52 reboot and the can she/can't she dilemma that some of the comics writers throw to us only to show her flying many issues later.
Again, Wonder Woman gets shafted in the powers that have been given to her, probably because they think she will outshine Superman and the other manly Superhero's in her 'class'. Seems that Shazam had no problem flying!![/QUOTE]
[spoil]If What I read is true.
You can finally stop talking about this. :-p lol [/spoil]
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[spoil]I'm just glad that she will be flying under her own powers, providing if it's true. However, I don't like the Cheetah thing. She is her premier nemesis and needs to be a thorn in Diana's side at all times.[/spoil]