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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;5310074]Just watched it.
I haven't been this disappointed in a sequel since Batman V Superman.
Such a drop in overall quality from the original.
So many unforced errors.
Cheetah is a mere hench to a non-WW villain, who really isn't a villain. Their final fight is so poorly visible onscreen.
The SFX were not consistent (HOW does this happen again after Justice League??).
The issue of consent. Against Diana.
The powers fading for most of the movie.
A bloated 2.5 hours runtime.
A pointless Lynda Carter cameo.
Sigh. Maybe WW3 will be better.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Cheetah was really a hench to Lord, their goals just aligned so she protected him and made sure he could carry out his plan plan and let her become more powerful.
I don't know if I'd say the cameo was pointless since I think it kind of brought a certain part of the mythos together. It was mostly fanservice, but not the bad kind in my opinion.
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My problem with Asteria was that they did not think the cameo through. The story behind this alleged uber-warrior of the amazons that allegedly died to save the amazons from "the entire world" (wtf) has some plotholes and nonsensical details, and I am convinced that Asteria was just something the writers concocted haphazardly so they could shoehorn Lynda in the movie. Honestly, I would have preferred Ms Carter to play some sort of reporter or pop culture figure (maybe an Oprah-style talk show host?) that coined the name "Wonder Woman" to refer to Diana, this mysterious female crimefighter that some people whispered abaout.
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[QUOTE=FutureWonder;5310883]My problem with Asteria was that they did not think the cameo through. The story behind this alleged uber-warrior of the amazons that allegedly died to save the amazons from "the entire world" (wtf) has some plotholes and nonsensical details, and I am convinced that Asteria was just something the writers concocted haphazardly so they could shoehorn Lynda in the movie. Honestly, I would have preferred Ms Carter to play some sort of reporter or pop culture figure (maybe an Oprah-style talk show host?) that coined the name "Wonder Woman" to refer to Diana, this mysterious female crimefighter that some people whispered abaout.[/QUOTE]
"Did not think it through" in the sense of what has she been doing while Diana's been busy doing her thing in Man's World?
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[QUOTE=Amazon Swordsman;5309706]I still think Snyder deserves some of the flack for the negative reception to the film. He laid the foundation for Wonder Woman to turn her back on humanity for a century after she left Themyscira, so she wasn’t going to be out in the open doing amazing feats of strength and skill so casually. It’s true that the first film had to kind of retcon that, because that’s just not who WW is as a character. But still, she was forced to be discreet about her heroism because of the DCEU continuity, even though some people are aware of her existence post WW1. It’s kinda confusing to think of Wonder Woman as a mere urban legend, especially after the events of 1984.[/QUOTE]
I think blaming Snyder doesnt make sense. He came up with his intention for WW and Patty didnt like it so she changed it. It isnt up to him to please a director who hadnt been hired yet. 1984 is a Patty/Johns problem through and through.
[QUOTE=FutureWonder;5310883]My problem with Asteria was that they did not think the cameo through. The story behind this alleged uber-warrior of the amazons that allegedly died to save the amazons from "the entire world" (wtf) has some plotholes and nonsensical details, and I am convinced that Asteria was just something the writers concocted haphazardly so they could shoehorn Lynda in the movie. Honestly, I would have preferred Ms Carter to play some sort of reporter or pop culture figure (maybe an Oprah-style talk show host?) that coined the name "Wonder Woman" to refer to Diana, this mysterious female crimefighter that some people whispered abaout.[/QUOTE]
My biggest problem with it is that they put it in there just for a glorified cameo instead of actually fleshing it out with a good flashback montage explaining the story. Astoria is still going around saving lives nonchalantly but gets rid of her armor? There couldve been an entire movie set around this armor and Barbara being the one who find it...but..ya know.
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5311455]My biggest problem with it is that they put it in there just for a glorified cameo instead of actually fleshing it out with a good flashback montage explaining the story. Astoria is still going around saving lives nonchalantly but gets rid of her armor? There couldve been an entire movie set around this armor and Barbara being the one who find it...but..ya know.[/QUOTE]
Some of that might continue into the third movie but I could think of several reasons why she lost the armor.
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Saw WW84. Didn't hate it but certainly didn't love it. Overall I finished it feeling underwhelmed and disappointed. For me, I think it was because I was looking forward to seeing Diana doing amazing (pun not intended... Maybe?) feats of strength without the sword and shield overshadowing things but we didn't get that. Instead it felt more like a low grade Spiderman-ish type of movie.
While this movie felt more Wonder Woman than the first one, visually brighter and Diana using her classic weapons (lasso, tiara, bracers) there is no denying that it was lacking. And that is unfortunate, because I wanted so much to see Wonder Woman being the formidable and compassionate powerhouse. While we got the compassionate aspect for the most part, we barely got the formidable powerhouse as she spent majority of the movie losing her power. I don't know if it is a result of the plot or lack of creativity in showcasing just how strong she is without her having to be beating up villains.
Further, Diana is supposed to be a wise character, so having her character fall into bed with 'Steve' almost immediately without even first trying to determine what was going on and showing little to no regard for the man whose body Steve's "spirit"(?) was inhabiting felt both OOC and disturbing.
Ultimately, I can only hope that the 3rd Wonder Woman movie installment takes corrective measures and doesn't overcorrect in the wrong direction. And please let it be in the present.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5311518]Some of that might continue into the third movie but I could think of several reasons why she lost the armor.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I would love it so much if, when it's time to direct WW3, Jenkins totally ignores anything that reminds audiences of this film. Let her bring Diana into the present and give us the action-packed epic (Circe, please) that once again puts Gadot's Diana in audiences' good graces.
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[QUOTE=FutureWonder;5312564]To be honest, I would love it so much if, when it's time to direct WW3, Jenkins totally ignores anything that reminds audiences of this film. Let her bring Diana into the present and give us the action-packed epic (Circe, please) that once again puts Gadot's Diana in audiences' good graces.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I want this trilogy to end on a high note.
And not to mention the Zeus thing. That's not what I EXPECT, but it's what I want.
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I'm going to just say it; there's something wrong with Zach Snyder. I mean mentally. Who does that? Damn, I'm glad that didn't make it into the final BvS cut, I'm with Jenkins on this, I really, really don't want to see serial killer Wonder Woman who keeps the heads of her victims in order to pose for the cameras with them.:eek:
Yeah, maybe it was always meant to be a placeholder, but damn, they could have just put a picture of kittens or something, knowing it was going to be replaced.
[URL="https://www.cbr.com/bvs-wonder-woman-severed-heads-photo/"]https://www.cbr.com/bvs-wonder-woman-severed-heads-photo/[/URL]
On the whole, I'd say that cements my happiness that he's not going to be involved with the DCEU going forward.
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I just realised, handsome guy must have done self defence courses. Steve accesses his muscle memory while fighting Max in the White House.
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5311455]I think blaming Snyder doesnt make sense. He came up with his intention for WW and Patty didnt like it so she changed it. It isnt up to him to please a director who hadnt been hired yet. 1984 is a Patty/Johns problem through and through.[/QUOTE]
I’m not putting all the blame on him. I’m saying he had a hand in laying the foundation for how DCEU Wonder Woman operates.
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[QUOTE=achilles;5312674]I'm going to just say it; there's something wrong with Zach Snyder. I mean mentally. Who does that? Damn, I'm glad that didn't make it into the final BvS cut, I'm with Jenkins on this, I really, really don't want to see serial killer Wonder Woman who keeps the heads of her victims in order to pose for the cameras with them.:eek:
Yeah, maybe it was always meant to be a placeholder, but damn, they could have just put a picture of kittens or something, knowing it was going to be replaced.
[URL="https://www.cbr.com/bvs-wonder-woman-severed-heads-photo/"]https://www.cbr.com/bvs-wonder-woman-severed-heads-photo/[/URL]
On the whole, I'd say that cements my happiness that he's not going to be involved with the DCEU going forward.[/QUOTE]
Same here.
[I]Sucker Punch[/I] is proof positive that Snyder is an archetypical comic book fanboy through and through, and that his preferred mode for superheroines is scantily clad, "badass" and deadly. I shudder to think what he would have done if he had wanted to direct a WW film himself. That picture with Diana is more Blood-thirsty Xena On Steroids than Wonder Woman, and it hints at the horrible bullet we WW fans dodged.
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[QUOTE=achilles;5312674]I'm going to just say it; there's something wrong with Zach Snyder. I mean mentally. Who does that? Damn, I'm glad that didn't make it into the final BvS cut, I'm with Jenkins on this, I really, really don't want to see serial killer Wonder Woman who keeps the heads of her victims in order to pose for the cameras with them.:eek:
Yeah, maybe it was always meant to be a placeholder, but damn, they could have just put a picture of kittens or something, knowing it was going to be replaced.
[URL="https://www.cbr.com/bvs-wonder-woman-severed-heads-photo/"]https://www.cbr.com/bvs-wonder-woman-severed-heads-photo/[/URL]
On the whole, I'd say that cements my happiness that he's not going to be involved with the DCEU going forward.[/QUOTE]
Yeesh, and I thought Injustice WW was as bad as it could get.
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So here is what is said
[url]https://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-1984-patty-jenkins-steve-trevor-defense/[/url]
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5312984]So here is what is said
[url]https://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-1984-patty-jenkins-steve-trevor-defense/[/url][/QUOTE]
Can we just... not bring this up? We just had a thread discussing this shut down.
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[QUOTE=Gaius;5312932]Yeesh, and I thought Injustice WW was as bad as it could get.[/QUOTE]
I'm becoming more confident in my stance that Diana lucked out that BvS didn't focus the narrative on her too much, which is why she came off better than the other two.
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5313272]I'm becoming more confident in my stance that Diana lucked out that BvS didn't focus the narrative on her too much, which is why she came off better than the other two.[/QUOTE]
Thank the gods Hippolyta doesn't translate to "Martha" in modern English. :p
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[quote=gaius;5313323]thank the gods hippolyta doesn't translate to "martha" in modern english. :p[/quote]
[size=3][b]Why did you say that name?!!![/b][/size]
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1 Attachment(s)
The more I think about it, the more WW84 seems less like most Marvel Movies and more like the Richard Donner Superman.
It really just needed Diana to flash a smile to the camera in the final flyby.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]104307[/ATTACH]
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There's so many things I want to say about this movie that I did not like and there's some things I did like. but right now I would like to ask why is it that neither max nor barbara seeing Diana in a COSTUME with POWERS for the very first time had no reaction to that?!?! I expected them to be shocked & say something. Max didnt say anything in the chase scene & Barbara shows up at the white house & says nothing! Like aww bro! its Diana Prince...remember her? you know...she kinda works at the Smithsonian museum?? Kinda?!?? Horrific script writing man.
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5311455]I think blaming Snyder doesnt make sense. He came up with his intention for WW and Patty didnt like it so she changed it. It isnt up to him to please a director who hadnt been hired yet. 1984 is a Patty/Johns problem through and through.[/quote]
He set up Diana's status quo in Batman vs Superman, forcing Jenkins to improvise with what she had, and we're lucky she's been retconning like crazy things he did so we have a Wonder Woman that's more like classic Diana. He didn't create an intention, he created the backstory for Diana to be a hero who got disillusioned from humanity and retired x years before her cinematic debut in the DCEU. Her story arc revolves around this in her that movie, that's on Snyder. Is it is fact on him to think before he leaps about future directors in his own universe, the DCEU is a team sport not the Zack Snyder show. Or did he think so poorly of Wonder Woman no director was going to make a solo franchise from that depiction?
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[QUOTE=brettc1;5313397]The more I think about it, the more WW84 seems less like most Marvel Movies and more like the Richard Donner Superman.
It really just needed Diana to flash a smile to the camera in the final flyby.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]104307[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
I feel that was entirely intentional.
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Ugh, that Snyder photo is disgusting but what's even more disgusting is that some "experts" are claiming this is how Wonder Woman is in the comics - savage and bloodthirsty. It really drives home just how badly she's represented outside of her own book and movies.
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[QUOTE=Psy-lock;5314560]Ugh, that Snyder photo is disgusting but what's even more disgusting is that some "experts" are claiming this is how Wonder Woman is in the comics - savage and bloodthirsty. It really drives home just how badly she's represented outside of her own book and movies.[/QUOTE]
I'm surprised at seeing some people actually like that, but they seem into Wonder Woman as this savage warrior woman who kills and beheads people.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5314563]I'm surprised at seeing some people actually like that, but they seem into Wonder Woman as this savage warrior woman who kills and beheads people.[/QUOTE]
I'm just glad it was nipped in the bud here. I don't want kill crazy Wonder Woman with the kung-fu grip. I want paragon of decency and compassion Wonder Woman.
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Question: everybody keeps saying that Barbara never renounced her first wish ("I want to be like Diana"), which means that she could very well be alive and as powerful as the Amazing Amazon during the events of the third film. That could be a great way to have Circe transform Minerva into a Cheetah that would still be strong enough to go toe to toe with Wonder Woman. Now, did Minerva ever renounce her being "an apex predator"? I don't remember her letting go of her Cheetah wish. Anyone recalls that?
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[QUOTE=FutureWonder;5314945]Question: everybody keeps saying that Barbara never renounced her first wish ("I want to be like Diana"), which means that she could very well be alive and as powerful as the Amazing Amazon during the events of the third film. That could be a great way to have Circe transform Minerva into a Cheetah that would still be strong enough to go tot to toe with Wonder Woman. Now, did Minerva ever renounce her being "an apex predator"? I don't remember her letting go of her Cheetah wish. Anyone recalls that?[/QUOTE]
Her Cheetah form wasn't so much something she directly wished for so much as what the collective wishes turned her into when Lord was transferring the energy into her, which is why she reverted back when everyone was renouncing their wishes.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5314956]Her Cheetah form wasn't so much something she directly wished for so much as what the collective wishes turned her into when Lord was transferring the energy into her, which is why she reverted back when everyone was renouncing their wishes.[/QUOTE]
I see. Thanks for clarifying that!
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I think her Cheetah form was reversed because of Max renouncing his wish of being the dream stone. Every wish he granted is undone. Her original wish with the stone to be like Diana remains because she didn't want to renounce it to begin with. I suspect her goal now would be to try and get back her Cheetah form, as that to her, was her ultimate form and not a copy of someone's she's grown to hate.
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[QUOTE=rpmaluki;5315681]I think her Cheetah form was reversed because of Max renouncing his wish of being the dream stone. Every wish he granted is undone. Her original wish with the stone to be like Diana remains because she didn't want to renounce it to begin with. I suspect her goal now would be to try and get back her Cheetah form, as that to her, was her ultimate form and not a copy of someone's she's grown to hate.[/QUOTE]
In the sequel she might stay like Diana and get her Cheetah from back permanently from Circe, like in the comics. I get a big Perez vibe from Jenkins' Wonder Woman, especially in '84.
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WW 84 reminds me most of Superman 2. She chose her true love, lost her powers, the world goes to chaos, and Wonder Woman learns a lesson about sacrifice and wishes fulfilled. The pacing of the movie reminded me of the Dick Lester movie and Geoff Johns is a Donner fan.
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One thing I did not like in the movie was that scene in which Spartans attack Asteria.
Apart from recalling the 300 and that Spartans did not fight bare chested as in 300, they had a high code of ethics in battle, they would never attack a woman.
Besides unlike most ancient cultures, Women in Sparta enjoyed more freedom than in any other place. Spartan women practically ran their city state, besides being themselves trained to fight.
Another historical inaccuracy in the movie is that Diana mentions the last Roman Emperor, Romulus Augustus was killed, False, he was deposed but not killed, actually he lived for some 30years more.
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I liked how Diana's strength was sapped into Barbara from the wish she made with the stone.
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So Maxwell was to be in JL. This makes me wonder if Cheetah also was going to be in JL or at least reference
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South Korean Audiences seem to really like this film.
[QUOTE]In Korea, Wonder Woman 1984 grossed 41k on its 3rd FRI, still #1 & 32% market share, 4M local cume at Box Office. 486k people saw WW84 in South Korea so far. Between this week debuts, Poland’s Mr Jones in #3 grossed 7k. Black Bird in #4 grossed 6k, Germany’s Girl in #8 with 4k. [/QUOTE]
[url]https://twitter.com/Luiz_Fernando_J/status/1347563517948387328[/url]
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[QUOTE=Johnny Thunders!;5316092]WW 84 reminds me most of Superman 2. She chose her true love, lost her powers, the world goes to chaos, and Wonder Woman learns a lesson about sacrifice and wishes fulfilled. The pacing of the movie reminded me of the Dick Lester movie and Geoff Johns is a Donner fan.[/QUOTE]
Exactly this.
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[QUOTE=MarFarr;5316384]One thing I did not like in the movie was that scene in which Spartans attack Asteria.
Apart from recalling the 300 and that Spartans did not fight bare chested as in 300, they had a high code of ethics in battle, they would never attack a woman.
Besides unlike most ancient cultures, Women in Sparta enjoyed more freedom than in any other place. Spartan women practically ran their city state, besides being themselves trained to fight.
Another historical inaccuracy in the movie is that Diana mentions the last Roman Emperor, Romulus Augustus was killed, False, he was deposed but not killed, actually he lived for some 30years more.[/QUOTE]
It’s not clear they are Spartans, though I can why people might think so with those red cloaks.
You’re talking about the battle ethics of people who would occasionally declare war on their Helot slaves so they could cull their numbers without violating Spartan law.
As for Romulus, I’d say either he was wearing it when he died after being deposed (which would be pretty awful for a Roman Emperor) or the historical record is wrong within the context of the movie.
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[QUOTE=achilles;5312674]I'm going to just say it; there's something wrong with Zach Snyder. I mean mentally. Who does that? Damn, I'm glad that didn't make it into the final BvS cut, I'm with Jenkins on this, I really, really don't want to see serial killer Wonder Woman who keeps the heads of her victims in order to pose for the cameras with them.:eek:
Yeah, maybe it was always meant to be a placeholder, but damn, they could have just put a picture of kittens or something, knowing it was going to be replaced.
[URL="https://www.cbr.com/bvs-wonder-woman-severed-heads-photo/"]https://www.cbr.com/bvs-wonder-woman-severed-heads-photo/[/URL]
On the whole, I'd say that cements my happiness that he's not going to be involved with the DCEU going forward.[/QUOTE]
Harsh.
Snyder had/has a different view of the character. Not really a surprise considering her publication history over the last 15 years.
I don’t like the photo and I don’t favour his interpretation, but people’s views on how a fictional character should be adapted to the screen isn’t an indication on mental imbalance.
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Snyder's views are too dark. He doesn't get super-heroes, IMHO. His views worked fine with Watchmen -- where the source material was very dark, but most comic book heroes don't fit his perspectives. His fans seem to love that darker take, but I don't think the majority of viewers share that love.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5314956]Her Cheetah form wasn't so much something she directly wished for so much as what the collective wishes turned her into when Lord was transferring the energy into her, which is why she reverted back when everyone was renouncing their wishes.[/QUOTE]
The stone’s Power, and subsequently Max’s, increases as the story progresses.
My question is, when Max renounced his wish, did the stone reform?