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[QUOTE=Jim Kelly;4455896]I know Margot Robbie is a star, but she's not a writer or a director. The movie sounds like a vanity project--which sometimes is worth the gamble because even if such movies don't do well, it's worth it to keep the talent happy so they will do other projects for the studio that will make money. But from what I've heard about this movie, it's a big gamble. It's not that Black Mask is gay, but that he seems to be an offensive gay stereotype--so the very people you would want on board for the movie, progressive and LGBTQ audiences, might be the ones who turn on it and attack it on social media. And that worries me, not because I care much about BIRDS OF PREY itself, but because bad DC movies tend to infect other DC movies. And with WONDER WOMAN 1984 being the next movie to come out, a bad performance by BIRDS OF PREY could end up tanking WW 84.[/QUOTE]
She's not a writer or director, that would be Christina Hodson (who they had already hired to write Batgirl and then, after they'd seen what she'd written for BoP, hired her to write The Flash movie) and Cathy Yan (who they hired because they liked her pitch).
If this were a vanity project for Robbie I would think she would have done the solo Harley movie that WB wanted her to do but she thinks Harley works better surrounded by other people so she insisted it be a group film.
No one who had seen the movie have been offended by any gay stereotypes. That's coming from people who haven't seen the film and have heard that Black Mask is "obviously" gay. They're just making assumptions. If you look at any of the women in charge of this film or any of the people starring in the film, I think it's fairly safe to assume that they won't be perpetuating offensive stereotypes. That's not too say that Mask may not be flamboyant, but some gay people are. Plus he's not the only gay person in the film so they'll be showing more than one side to homosexuality either way.
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I mean, most of the characters from what I've heard sound very "in-name-only," which is what I was expecting from the teaser to be honest, so I'm not really treating it as a big deal.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;4456219]I mean, most of the characters from what I've heard sound very "in-name-only," which is what I was expecting from the teaser to be honest, so I'm not really treating it as a big deal.[/QUOTE]
Well we don't know a lot about Black Canary other that they're going with the recent singer influence and she reportedly had her Canary Cry but we know Harley from SS and she's pretty accurate, Huntress is vengeful because her mobster family was murdered, Renee Montoya is a Gotham City police officer who also happens to be lesbian...these seem fairly accurate to the comics characters.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;4456032]I don't really know how I feel about this movie but I know executive meddling from WB never ends well.[/QUOTE]
So true. Nothing hurts a DC movie’s hype like hearing that WB execs have meddled with the production. It always ends badly.
Though I’m not totally buying the “rave reviews from the audience” line either. I recall that Batman v. Superman was also getting “loved in early test screenings” and “received a standing ovation from WB execs”. BoP may legitimately be a mess.
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[QUOTE=Stromberg;4456231]Well we don't know a lot about Black Canary other that they're going with the recent singer influence and she reportedly had her Canary Cry but we know Harley from SS and she's pretty accurate, Huntress is vengeful because her mobster family was murdered, Renee Montoya is a Gotham City police officer who also happens to be lesbian...these seem fairly accurate to the comics characters.[/QUOTE]
Huntress' deal seems kind of vague. I'm not really sure where they're going with her.
The Canary Cry is a good start but, again, there's still a lot I'm not sure about when it comes to Dinah in this movie.
Cass especially seems in-name-only from what little we've heard.
Montoya is probably the easiest character to adapt to be honest.
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[QUOTE=Robotman;4456255]So true. Nothing hurts a DC movie’s hype like hearing that WB execs have meddled with the production. It always ends badly.
Though I’m not totally buying the “rave reviews from the audience” line either. I recall that Batman v. Superman was also getting “loved in early test screenings” and “received a standing ovation from WB execs”. BoP may legitimately be a mess.[/QUOTE]
Or it could legitimately be a good movie.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;4456301]Huntress' deal seems kind of vague. I'm not really sure where they're going with her.
The Canary Cry is a good start but, again, there's still a lot I'm not sure about when it comes to Dinah in this movie.
Cass especially seems in-name-only from what little we've heard.
Montoya is probably the easiest character to adapt to be honest.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I don't speak on Cass cuz I've never known a lot about the character. I know she had a stunt fighter that's a really good martial artist, but that's it.
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[QUOTE=Stromberg;4456438]Or it could legitimately be a good movie.[/QUOTE]
It could also be bad. :p
What's your point?
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[QUOTE=Jim Kelly;4455896]I know Margot Robbie is a star, but she's not a writer or a director. The movie sounds like a vanity project--which sometimes is worth the gamble because even if such movies don't do well, it's worth it to keep the talent happy so they will do other projects for the studio that will make money. But from what I've heard about this movie, it's a big gamble. [B]It's not that Black Mask is gay, but that he seems to be an offensive gay stereotype--so the very people you would want on board for the movie, progressive and LGBTQ audiences, might be the ones who turn on it and attack it on social media.[/B] And that worries me, not because I care much about BIRDS OF PREY itself, but because bad DC movies tend to infect other DC movies. And with WONDER WOMAN 1984 being the next movie to come out, a bad performance by BIRDS OF PREY could end up tanking WW 84.[/QUOTE]
Where does this come from? It's the first I've heard of it. I'd be very surprised if he turned out to be an offensive stereotype, especially as those are far and few apart these days even in more stereotypically bro-y films. I don't think you're necessarily wrong about this being a vanity project though, but if that's what it takes for something as relatively left field as this (gritty, mid-budget superhero film with women leads, writer and director) to get off the ground I'm all for it. If it's any good or not remains to be seen.
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[QUOTE=byrd156;4456548]It could also be bad. :p
What's your point?[/QUOTE]
That people shouldn't jump to conclusions?
After all, this wouldn't be the first time we had a DC movie that people were just [I]sure[/I] would turn out to be a mess. Sometimes it's like people have money riding on these films flopping.
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[QUOTE=TheNewFiftyForum;4456549]Where does this come from? [/QUOTE]
I don't want to spoil a key plot detail, but there's something involving Black Mask that's hard to see how they could make it work. And these things are delicate. You never know how they're going to land with audiences. I actually love the fatherly themes in SUPERMAN RETURNS and the Martha moment in BVS lifted my spirits. On the other hand, I thought SILENCE OF THE LAMBS was horribly offensive and that won awards.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;4456580]That people shouldn't jump to conclusions?
After all, this wouldn't be the first time we had a DC movie that people were just [I]sure[/I] would turn out to be a mess. Sometimes it's like people have money riding on these films flopping.[/QUOTE]
No conclusions were jumped to. Robotman was just voicing an opinion about not trusting the initial rave reviews based off of previous experiences. No one decided that the movie was one way or another.
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[QUOTE=Stromberg;4456438]Or it could legitimately be a good movie.[/QUOTE]
I'm expecting it to be a good indie, counter-culture, female-led film but less so a good DC Superhero film based on the Birds of Prey.
[QUOTE=Agent Z;4456580]
After all, this wouldn't be the first time we had a DC movie that people were just [I]sure[/I] would turn out to be a mess. Sometimes it's like people have money riding on these films flopping.[/QUOTE]
But haven't those usually been accurate though? Just look at BvS, SS, and [I]Justice League. [/I]
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[QUOTE=byrd156;4456596]No conclusions were jumped to. Robotman was just voicing an opinion about not trusting the initial rave reviews based off of previous experiences. No one decided that the movie was one way or another.[/QUOTE]
Please. People have been declaring the Birds of Prey movie DOA since it was announced and have been jumping on every single rumor, no matter how uncorroborated, that a DC movie would flop. Some are just more sly about it.
I mean, what exactly was the point of you responding to Stromberg's post by saying that it could be bad? Why is the idea that it could be a good movie so hard to believe that it warrants someone mockingly stating it could be bad?
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[QUOTE=Frontier;4456599]I'm expecting it to be a good indie, counter-culture, female-led film but less so a good DC Superhero film based on the Birds of Prey.
But haven't those usually been accurate though? Just look at BvS, SS, and [I]Justice League. [/I][/QUOTE]
They weren't accurate in WW, Aquaman and Shazam's cases. SS and JL I'll give you though I think BvS is a YMMV case.