-
[QUOTE=Cyyyke;4112489]I think it was not about Jean, Jean was long dead and she was not their main problem at that time. It was about all the crap and pressure since Schism, AvX and the hell P5 that made them stuck in a nearly desperate position both on X-Men and their relationship. They were so broken, I feel so sorry for them, which was why I really want them to face these together and get through the hard time like they used to. (Even if Bendis or Marvel didn't want Scott to get back together with Emma at least don't let him talk to her like that...)[/QUOTE]
Warsong (which tried to bury Jott as much as possible in favor of Scemma) even explained that Emma felt incredibly insecure about Scott still dreaming about Jean. Even after that, she admitted that intimacy was hard because he tended to think about Jean, which is a nightmare for a telepath.
-
I don't think Jean was a problem for Scemma. For 14 years she was hardly remembered.
It’s just since the Utopia, Scott was more in love with his job than with Emma. Yet I still believe that they can find a way to each other.
-
[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4112841]Warsong (which tried to bury Jott as much as possible in favor of Scemma) even explained that Emma felt incredibly insecure about Scott still dreaming about Jean. Even after that, she admitted that intimacy was hard because he tended to think about Jean, which is a nightmare for a telepath.[/QUOTE]
Endsong was the issue where Scott moved on with Emma warsong had nothing to do with Jean
-
[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;4112906]Endsong was the issue where Scott moved on with Emma warsong had nothing to do with Jean[/QUOTE]
I always get those two confused. Especially since the Shi'Ar are going to war with the Phoenix in Endsong.
-
[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;4112906]Endsong was the issue where Scott moved on with Emma warsong had nothing to do with Jean[/QUOTE]
Jean was talked about all throughout the mini. It ended with Emma threatening her
-
[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4112841]Warsong (which tried to bury Jott as much as possible in favor of Scemma) even explained that Emma felt incredibly insecure about Scott still dreaming about Jean. Even after that, she admitted that intimacy was hard because he tended to think about Jean, which is a nightmare for a telepath.[/QUOTE]
I understand, but still I don't think it was that bad as it was deliberately made by writers to appear to be, Jean was long dead and nobody knew she would ever come back, in normal sense Scott should have been just missing her as missing his deceased wife who he loved deeply but now was gone forever and moved on with his life if he didn't commit suicide or give up on life (which he had attempted to but in the end not managed to).
There were parts in Scemma's relationship I don't like and I believe nobody likes, such as Emma wearing Jean's costume, Scott sleeping with one thinking about another, I automatically classify them as sick writing and choose to see the beautiful and, more importantly, reasonable parts. His love for Emma was true and Emma knew that, there wasn't a competition between her and Jean, except writers just couldn't help creating toxic parts and making a huge deal about it. I guess I just don't want to let those toxic parts bug me so much.
-
[QUOTE=Havok83;4112973]Jean was talked about all throughout the mini. It ended with Emma threatening her[/QUOTE]
I don't recall Jean brought up in the same manner as it was in Endsong with Scott thinking about her.
I recall Beast saying Jean went Dark like other X-Men
I recall the Cuckoo's saying not even Jean could control the Phoenix
And I recall Emma plotting revenge against the Phoenix unsure of its nature or if it's Jean or not.
The central plot was about the Cuckoo's origin
But I don't recall any Jott stuff in Warsong or day dreams from Scott and the story itself wasn't Jean centric at all
-
Wasn't warsong not canon?
-
[QUOTE=wano;4113441]Wasn't warsong not canon?[/QUOTE]
It is. Its not referenced much but it hasnt been retconned as not being canon. The Cuckoos getting diamond powers like Emma and having a Phoenix fragment within them was followed up in Fraction's run
-
[QUOTE=Havok83;4113526]It is. Its not referenced much but it hasnt been retconned as not being canon. The Cuckoos getting diamond powers like Emma and having a Phoenix fragment within them was followed up in Fraction's run[/QUOTE]
It also created the White Phoenix of the Crown, detailed the Cuckoos full origin, and created a trauma fueled lifelong vendetta against the Ultra Mega Chicken that everyone promptly forgot about because who needs continuity?
-
[QUOTE=Havok83;4112973]Jean was talked about all throughout the mini. It ended with Emma threatening her[/QUOTE]
???
Emma was clearly threatening the Phoenix for making Celeste destroy the cloned Cuckoos in The World.
-
[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4113650]???
Emma was clearly threatening the Phoenix for making Celeste destroy the cloned Cuckoos in The World.[/QUOTE]
She was but she called out Jean in that threat. I dont have the quote but she suggested that the Phoenix was Jean gone insane and threatened her if/when she came back. Jean Grey was named in that final scene by Emma
-
[QUOTE=Havok83;4113778]She was but she called out Jean in that threat. I dont have the quote but she suggested that the Phoenix was Jean gone insane and threatened her if/when she came back. Jean Grey was named in that final scene by Emma[/QUOTE]
Well, with the continually changing continuity, it's hard to pinpoint where Jean begins and the phoenix ends. Part of it was probably just paranoia. They seemed to play with that a lot when Hope appeared.
On a related side note, think they will play with Scott's possession with the phoenix force with Jean in any way?
-
[QUOTE=TheDeadSpace;4113797][B]Well, with the continually changing continuity, it's hard to pinpoint where Jean begins and the phoenix ends.[/B] Part of it was probably just paranoia. They seemed to play with that a lot when Hope appeared.
On a related side note, think they will play with Scott's possession with the phoenix force with Jean in any way?[/QUOTE]
Let's be honest, every soft reboot Marvel does, and every event that touches upon the Phoenix in any way changes things again and again in that regard.
-
[QUOTE=TheDeadSpace;4113797]On a related side note, think they will play with Scott's possession with the phoenix force with Jean in any way?[/QUOTE]
I was wondering the same thing. Technically, Scott has now been every permutation - Phoenix, Dark Phoenix, and White Crown, hasn't he? Although, the white suit in Secret Wars might have been an oversight.
-
[QUOTE=Hizashi;4113823]I was wondering the same thing. Technically, Scott has now been every permutation - Phoenix, Dark Phoenix, and White Crown, hasn't he? Although, the white suit in Secret Wars might have been an oversight.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure of what to make of the white suit in Secret Wars. Then again, he did fully embrace the phoenix at that moment and it accepted him as a host. I doubt it will ever be touched upon again.
It's weird when you think of it. He survived the phoenix and apocalypse but dies of an illness. Then again, after dying by Doom and shield, they probably needed to think of something dramatically different.
-
[QUOTE=PrezValentine;4111934]Let's talk about facts for a moment: no other leader of the X-Men had a moment with this phrase that was better than this one. The build-up to it, the things Scott went through with Emma and Nova, the page where Jean and Xavier are his very last visions before death, the reveal of the ruse, the blast and then "To me, my X-Men". In this decade and the last, only a few writers managed to do a powerful character moment like this one. It's my all-time favorite Cyclops moment, tied with the "danger room session" during the original Proteus arc. It's a work of art.[/QUOTE]
There's also the part where Cyke is perfectly willing to kill himself as part of the plan. [I]Damn, Summers[/I] indeed.
-
[QUOTE=Hizashi;4113823]I was wondering the same thing. Technically, Scott has now been every permutation - Phoenix, Dark Phoenix, and White Crown, hasn't he? Although, the white suit in Secret Wars might have been an oversight.[/QUOTE]
He was a White Phoenix, but not WPotC.
-
[QUOTE=TheDeadSpace;4113843]I'm not sure of what to make of the white suit in Secret Wars. Then again, he did fully embrace the phoenix at that moment and it accepted him as a host. I doubt it will ever be touched upon again.
It's weird when you think of it. He survived the phoenix and apocalypse but dies of an illness.[/QUOTE]
I think if his being White Crown is considered a special exception due to the circumstances of Secret Wars then everyone'll be happy.
Yeah, I've said it before, but his warrior death through execution by BB was preferable to dying moments after exposure to the T-Mist. Reading that was like having Marvel spit in my eye.
-
[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4113848]He was a White Phoenix, but not WPotC.[/QUOTE]
I've wondered about that distinction - is it significant?
-
[QUOTE=Hizashi;4113856]I've wondered about that distinction - is it significant?[/QUOTE]
Ah, I love the Phoenix, and doing research on it.
There are five states of Phoenix/host relationship.
1) Not in Resonance, Host Dominant (Green Suit Jean): The weakest state of the Phoenix. Host dictates the actions, though the Phoenix can exert subtle influence.
2) Not in Resonance, Phoenix Dominant (Red Suit Jean): Not a Dark Phoenix. Phoenix simply dictates the actions, while the host exerts influence to hold the Phoenix in check.
3) Not in Resonance, Phoenix Possessed (Dark Phoenix): The Phoenix has fully overridden the host and is lost in its own desires, whatever they may be. Often destructive.
4) In Resonance (White Phoenix): The host and Phoenix are cooperating fully, and share thoughts and emotions. Achievable by accepting the Phoenix rather than fighting its influence. Hope and Scott have done this.
5) Beyond Resonance (White Phoenix of the Crown): The Phoenix and the host are now indistinguishable from each other. Only achievable by the Phoenix's choice combined with the host's desire. Surmised but not confirmed that when Jean achieved this, she began to stop being matter, and start being pure psionic energy, and needed to stay within the bounds of the White Hot Room to contain the limitless power.
-
[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4113871]Ah, I love the Phoenix, and doing research on it.
There are five states of Phoenix/host relationship.
1) Not in Resonance, Host Dominant (Green Suit Jean): The weakest state of the Phoenix. Host dictates the actions, though the Phoenix can exert subtle influence.
2) Not in Resonance, Phoenix Dominant (Red Suit Jean): Not a Dark Phoenix. Phoenix simply dictates the actions, while the host exerts influence to hold the Phoenix in check.
3) Not in Resonance, Phoenix Possessed (Dark Phoenix): The Phoenix has fully overridden the host and is lost in its own desires, whatever they may be. Often destructive.
4) In Resonance (White Phoenix): The host and Phoenix are cooperating fully, and share thoughts and emotions. Achievable by accepting the Phoenix rather than fighting its influence. Hope and Scott have done this.
5) Beyond Resonance (White Phoenix of the Crown): The Phoenix and the host are now indistinguishable from each other. Only achievable by the Phoenix's choice combined with the host's desire. Surmised but not confirmed that when Jean achieved this, she began to stop being matter, and start being pure psionic energy, and needed to stay within the bounds of the White Hot Room to contain the limitless power.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, this is pretty awesome. I can accept this explanation for Scott’s suit in Secret Wars.
-
[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4113871]Ah, I love the Phoenix, and doing research on it.
There are five states of Phoenix/host relationship.
1) Not in Resonance, Host Dominant (Green Suit Jean): The weakest state of the Phoenix. Host dictates the actions, though the Phoenix can exert subtle influence.
2) Not in Resonance, Phoenix Dominant (Red Suit Jean): Not a Dark Phoenix. Phoenix simply dictates the actions, while the host exerts influence to hold the Phoenix in check.
3) Not in Resonance, Phoenix Possessed (Dark Phoenix): The Phoenix has fully overridden the host and is lost in its own desires, whatever they may be. Often destructive.
4) In Resonance (White Phoenix): The host and Phoenix are cooperating fully, and share thoughts and emotions. Achievable by accepting the Phoenix rather than fighting its influence. Hope and Scott have done this.
5) Beyond Resonance (White Phoenix of the Crown): The Phoenix and the host are now indistinguishable from each other. Only achievable by the Phoenix's choice combined with the host's desire. Surmised but not confirmed that when Jean achieved this, she began to stop being matter, and start being pure psionic energy, and needed to stay within the bounds of the White Hot Room to contain the limitless power.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, this is quite enlightening. I did not know the red suit had a distinction from going dark.
-
[QUOTE=TheDeadSpace;4113878]Thank you, this is quite enlightening. I did not know the red suit had a distinction from going dark.[/QUOTE]
You see it during Endsong, where red suit Jean is clearly not herself, but Jean is exerting enough influence to not cause a full Dark incident. It's also seen as a bridge during the original Dark Phoenix run.
-
Alright guys, favorite Cyke writers time!
Hard mode, no Claremont, Gillen or whedon
-
[QUOTE=wano;4114213]Alright guys, favorite Cyke writers time!
Hard mode, no Claremont, Gillen or whedon[/QUOTE]Scott Lobdell and Louise Simonson.
-
[QUOTE=wano;4114213]Alright guys, favorite Cyke writers time!
Hard mode, no Claremont, Gillen or whedon[/QUOTE]
Warren Ellis. Him dropping the F-bomb on Abigail Brand in front of his gay harem was pure gold.
-
Gillen. He wrote the best modern Cyclops. Lobdell and Simonson for 90s and 80s respectively
-
Louise Simonson for me. Only one I can think of from the top of my head.
-
[QUOTE=wano;4114213]Alright guys, favorite Cyke writers time!
Hard mode, no Claremont, Gillen or whedon[/QUOTE]
Simonson, Lobdell and Bendis.
-
-
-
[QUOTE=wano;4114213]Alright guys, favorite Cyke writers time!
Hard mode, no Claremont, Gillen or whedon[/QUOTE]
Stan Lee for creating Cyclops. Does that count?
Is hard for me to say who because with every writer there have been moments that I dislike and some I didn't.
-
Is Simonson the 1986-1991 X-Factor run?
-
[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4114432]Is Simonson the 1986-1991 X-Factor run?[/QUOTE]Yes, she is. :)
X-Factor #6–64, Annual #3, 5 (1986–1991)
-
[QUOTE=nx01a;4114436]Yes, she is. :)
X-Factor #6–64, Annual #3, 5 (1986–1991)[/QUOTE]
Ah, thank you.
If I had to pick, I would say my favorite writers for Scott were post-Morrison.
-
Simonson by a mile she's my favorite Cyclops writer of all time.
-
-
I really enjoyed Pak’s Exalted arc in Astonishing X-Men, I wish Scott could team up with those X-Men again.
-
[QUOTE=keeper444;4114652]Guillen or Lobdell[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Havok83;4114245]Gillen. He wrote the best modern Cyclops. Lobdell and Simonson for 90s and 80s respectively[/QUOTE]
Gillen was a no as part of the hard mode
As for me...
Waid definitely wrote a good Tyke during champions, too bad his time was cut short
Also, lot of appreciation for Simonson, she did a great job, her whole cyclops era should be literally called "from the ashes"