Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2019

Yes to the modulator, with an on/off switch (of some sort).

As for Jason and Damian...

Damian is a great character, but its always seemed to be Jason reaching out to team up with him, only to have Damian betray him (somehow) later on. But it seems with Damian's betrayal at the bar, and later on in Leviathan (even with how badly he was written in it), and Bruce not really questioning Damian the second (and beating Jason up in RHATO), Jason isn't coming back into that fold anytime soon. I can seem him working with Kate (again), Tim, Duke, and maybe Dick if he ever turns back to normal. But the Waynes...

[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4735217]Yes to the modulator, with an on/off switch (of some sort).

As for Jason and Damian...

Damian is a great character, but its always seemed to be Jason reaching out to team up with him, only to have Damian betray him (somehow) later on. But it seems with Damian's betrayal at the bar, and later on in Leviathan (even with how badly he was written in it), and Bruce not really questioning Damian the second (and beating Jason up in RHATO), Jason isn't coming back into that fold anytime soon. I can seem him working with Kate (again), Tim, Duke, and maybe Dick if he ever turns back to normal. But the Waynes...[/QUOTE]

It might take some time, I hope eventually there will be a writer who will take the time to flesh the relations out into something more positive.
Also I wonder if Jason and Bruces strained relationship will be addressed in some way by Bendis in his upcoming Leviathan sequels. He did make claims that the situation of what occurred in 'Event Leviathan' would affect Jason in some way. Surely the false accusation will be a topic of interest.

[QUOTE=RedBird;4735230]It might take some time, I hope eventually there will be a writer who will take the time to flesh the relations out into something more positive.
Also I wonder if Jason and Bruces strained relationship will be addressed in some way by Bendis in his upcoming Leviathan sequels. He did make claims that the situation of what occurred in 'Event Leviathan' would affect Jason in some way. Surely the false accusation will be a topic of interest.[/QUOTE]

Bendis didn't even touch on his own character conflicts (like why Jor-El was suddenly back, and Lois and Jon felt it was okay to go with him, and now Jor-El died back on Krypton, no questions answered). And honestly, I don't want Bendis touching anymore characters I like. He ruined the Super books for me.

The best I can say for his Jason portrayal, was he wasn't mugged, but characterization was bland at best (and raised so many questions of WHY Jason was there anyway).

[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4735243]Bendis didn't even touch on his own character conflicts (like why Jor-El was suddenly back, and Lois and Jon felt it was okay to go with him, and now Jor-El died back on Krypton, no questions answered). And honestly, I don't want Bendis touching anymore characters I like. He ruined the Super books for me.

The best I can say for his Jason portrayal, was he wasn't mugged, but characterization was bland at best (and raised so many questions of WHY Jason was there anyway).[/QUOTE]

That's fair but, I admit though I liked the characterization and dialogue from Jason. I enjoyed the conversation between him and Bruce leading up to the reveal that he was under suspicion as well the conversation between him and Lois, and I'm gonna be controversial here, but it felt pretty IC to me. I didn't realize just how much I had really wanted Jason and Lois to interact up until that point.

I haven't read Super comics for myself so I'll take your word on that.
But regardless, he most likely will be writing for Jason again soon, to some degree. Like always, hope for the best.

[I]
'You had mentioned Batgirl, and there was Jason Todd. So are we going to revisit them in Leviathan Dawn?

Yes, 100%. This hit everybody on different levels. Some it hit very personally, some it hit thematically, like, Leviathan was against their principals on every level that something has to be done and a lot of people feel like Leviathan happened on their watch, like, "We're supposed to be watching for this and it literally happened right from under us."'[/I]

[URL="https://www.cbr.com/brian-michael-bendis-leviathan-dawn-dc-comics-alex-maleev/"]link[/URL]

[URL="https://twitter.com/m_alesg/status/1206154999216197633"]m_alesg[/URL]

[I]The hero families getting spooked!....and who can forget the Batfamily?[/I]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL0fjSGX0AA5UlZ?format=jpg&name=small[/img]

[QUOTE=RedBird;4735267]That's fair but, I admit though I liked the characterization and dialogue from Jason. I enjoyed the conversation between him and Bruce leading up to the reveal that he was under suspicion as well the conversation between him and Lois, and I'm gonna be controversial here, but to me it felt pretty IC to me. I didn't realize just how much I had really wanted Jason and Lois to interact up until that point.

I haven't read Super comics for myself so I'll take your word on that.
But regardless, he most likely will be writing for Jason again soon, to some degree. Like always, hope for the best.

[I]
'You had mentioned Batgirl, and there was Jason Todd. So are we going to revisit them in Leviathan Dawn?

Yes, 100%. This hit everybody on different levels. Some it hit very personally, some it hit thematically, like, Leviathan was against their principals on every level that something has to be done and a lot of people feel like Leviathan happened on their watch, like, "We're supposed to be watching for this and it literally happened right from under us."'[/I]

[URL="https://www.cbr.com/brian-michael-bendis-leviathan-dawn-dc-comics-alex-maleev/"]link[/URL][/QUOTE]

Problem was, Jason was in Gotham at the time, working on the Iceberg Lounge and had a particularly cold confrontation with Bruce (as Batman) when he broke in. And this was also after his and Damian's fight at the bar. So Jason being rather neutral at the time made very little sense.

And honestly, I'd rather just ignore Bendis' "continuity" the way he does other peoples'.

[QUOTE=RedBird;4735230]It might take some time, I hope eventually there will be a writer who will take the time to flesh the relations out into something more positive.
Also I wonder if Jason and Bruces strained relationship will be addressed in some way by Bendis in his upcoming Leviathan sequels. He did make claims that the situation of what occurred in 'Event Leviathan' would affect Jason in some way. Surely the false accusation will be a topic of interest.[/QUOTE]

Over the years, I've learnt to distrust most of Bendis' promotional statements about what he's going to spwrite and show in his upcoming works. I count for it to be maybe just a little more than a footnote in his epilogue.

Edit: he felt in character, just, as usual, Bendis wasn't building his story with the current events and situation in other writers' books. He does that a lot.

[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4735291]Problem was, Jason was in Gotham at the time, working on the Iceberg Lounge and had a particularly cold confrontation with Bruce (as Batman) when he broke in. And this was also after his and Damian's fight at the bar. So Jason being rather neutral at the time made very little sense.

And honestly, I'd rather just ignore Bendis' "continuity" the way he does other peoples'.[/QUOTE]

Again fair judgement, continuity has been crap for a while now in comics, but in Leviathan, I kinda took it as Jason willing to set their differences aside for Barbaras sake since she was MIA, and to me, Jason willing to let their hostilities go for the sake of Babs felt true to character. He has always valued 'people before the mission'. I know it was right after the Iceberg Lounge threat, which makes the interaction feel off, yes, BUT to be fair, that sort of thing of 'setting aside their differences' also happened in rhato like, two issues after the infamous beatdown, when Bruce came to tell Jason about Roy's death and pass his condolences. Which I would argue was even worse. Not to say one lapse of continuity justifies another, but I guess it's more so just the reason why I personally don't view the Leviathan one with that much annoyance, although I completely understand why others do.

[QUOTE=RedBird;4735320]Again fair judgement, continuity has been crap for a while now in comics, but in Leviathan, I kinda took it as Jason willing to set their differences aside for Barbaras sake since she was MIA, and to me, Jason willing to let their hostilities go for the sake of Babs felt true to character. He has always valued 'people before the mission'. I know it was right after the Iceberg Lounge threat, which makes the interaction feel off, yes, BUT to be fair, that sort of thing of 'setting aside their differences' also happened in rhato like, two issues after the infamous beatdown, when Bruce came to tell Jason about Roy's death and pass his condolences. Which I would argue was even worse. Not to say one lapse of continuity justifies another, but I guess it's more so just the reason why I personally don't view the Leviathan one with that much annoyance, although I completely understand why others do.[/QUOTE]

Ah, Barbara, right. That's a good point. He would set* all aside for her sake.

Edit: well, both are fair points, actually. The diner issue in RHATO was a bit like whiplash.

I mean Jason would be considered a anti hero still? I mean he does things for money but still had his morals

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4735342]I mean Jason would be considered a anti hero still? I mean he does things for money but still had his morals[/QUOTE]

Yeah. Pure Classic Hero does things selflessly. Heroes who do good with a "but" in it are anti-heroes.

Actually, right now he's more of anti-villain. Okay, he'll train Lex Luthor's next generation of villains, [I]but[/I] he does it because they will be worse off with the other villains.

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4735308]Over the years, I've learnt to distrust most of Bendis' promotional statements about what he's going to spwrite and show in his upcoming works. I count for it to be maybe just a little more than a footnote in his epilogue.

Edit: he felt in character, just, as usual, Bendis wasn't building his story with the current events and situation in other writers' books. He does that a lot.[/QUOTE]

That's a shame to hear, ah well, my expectations aren't that high anyway. But in regards to Jason, Bendis surprised me last time, so who knows.

And hey, it's a low bar but I'll gladly take just 'in character' Jason as opposed to portrayals like King's Jason.

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4735342]I mean Jason would be considered a anti hero still? I mean he does things for money but still had his morals[/QUOTE]

Well Jason is usually considered an anti-hero, that seems to be the label most attributed to him, even by DC themselves he is promoted that way.

But his morality can seem to flit back and forth between the lines of hero and villain or more so, anti-villain, especially depending on the context of the situations he is in.

But if you're looking for a general description, anti-hero is the popular and all round accepted choice.

Overall should he be turned more into a villians or hero? I don't mind him being netural. A more edgy hero

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4735454]Overall should he be turned more into a villians or hero? I don't mind him being netural. A more edgy hero[/QUOTE]

He walks a line. Neutral it is.

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4735342]I mean Jason would be considered a anti hero still? I mean he does things for money but still had his morals[/QUOTE]

He doesn't do things for money. Not beyond that one time for the short series before Rebirth.

And morality is personal. Just because he doesn't follow Bruce to a T doesn't mean he's a bad guy. Huntress doesn't either. Or Wonder Woman. I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of leaguers who don't, actually. What makes Jason gray isn't exactly his moral system, I think. It's that he's practical as hell, to the point of killing if the guys are dangerous enough to put people in peril (or, well, himself) or deal with bad guys (which, I've to point, is something other heroes have done before. Even Batman under certain writers).

I mean, the batfamily, all of them, operate outside the law. That's not exactly white.

Jason isn't Slade.

Edit: because Jason's practical, and emotional driven, he goes from anti-heroic (good guy, but not clear clean, and uses dubious methods. Would use people to reach an outcome but not endanger them to the point of hurt them. This would be John McClane from Die Hard, for example, even if he's pretty heroic imho), to anti-villanious (noble ends, but definitely bad methods: not only manipulates any kind of character no matter their alignment, he also is willed to hurt or even let them die, or kill them. This would be... let's see, I think Ozymandias from Watchmen fits the mold). This depends of how he feels about a subject. In a traditional D&D alignment chart, Jason is Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral depending on the situation at hand and his options and circumstances.

He's a hero to me. And it's pretty cut and dry. He just likes to get his fingers a little dirtier than most. Winter Soldier, Wolverine, Cable, Black Widow (I use Marvel examples because that's who I'm most familiar with).. I consider them all heroes.

Vigilante =/= Anti-Hero

[QUOTE=cc008;4735537]He's a hero to me. And it's pretty cut and dry. He just likes to get his fingers a little dirtier than most. Winter Soldier, Wolverine, Cable, Black Widow (I use Marvel examples because that's who I'm most familiar with).. I consider them all heroes.

Vigilante =/= Anti-Hero[/QUOTE]

Mmmmm.
Logan and Natasha, or, well, I think Bucky too depending on who writes him and when, are pretty Byronic, which is a kind of anti-hero. I don't know. A hero, classic or not, is way more heroic that what Logan can pull half the time and his own personal, conflicts and struggles. Same could be said for Natasha, imho.

But I agree: being a vigilante doesn't make you instantly an anti-hero. Blue Beetle would be a vigilante, I think. Or Spiderman. And you hardly could call any of them an anti-hero.

(Ah! Cable has that cool look and background, but yeah; he's very heroic, even if he likes to get his hands dirty)

Let's use the D&D alignment
Lawful Good - Do-gooder, follow the law (Commissioner Gordon)
Neutral Good - Do-gooder willing to bend the law when necessary
Chaotic Good - Do-gooder not limited by law or tradition
Lawful Neutral - I follow the law even if it causes misery
True Neutral - Takes no sides
Chaotic Neutral - Screw the law I do what I want
Lawful Evil - Cause harm but still follow a code, law, or the boss
Neutral Evil - Cause harm based on what I think should be done
Chaotic Evil - Cause harm no matter which side

Which is Jason?

For D&D alignment, I ultimately go with Chaotic Good for Jason.

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4735597]Let's use the D&D alignment
Lawful Good - Do-gooder, follow the law (Commissioner Gordon)
Neutral Good - Do-gooder willing to bend the law when necessary
Chaotic Good - Do-gooder not limited by law or tradition
Lawful Neutral - I follow the law even if it causes misery
True Neutral - Takes no sides
Chaotic Neutral - Screw the law I do what I want
Lawful Evil - Cause harm but still follow a code, law, or the boss
Neutral Evil - Cause harm based on what I think should be done
Chaotic Evil - Cause harm no matter which side

Which is Jason?[/QUOTE]

I wonder if one could fill the D&D alignment grid with different versions of Jason alone (Father Todd, Mother Panic Jason, Gotham City Garage Jason, Injustice Jason, pre-crisis Jason, Hush Jason, Lego universe Jason, Titans Jason, Battle for the Cowl Jason, Morrison's Jason, Earth-15 Jason, Bombshells' Jason, Arkham Knight, etc.)

He should be chaotic, either good or neutral, depending on his mood, imo. He would be neutral in Under the Hood, for example.

I think that Law in that system isn't tied to law alone. If my sesions and videogames are a goos example (I don't know...), it has more to do with what the rules, rulers and customs dictate. Neutrals follow them sometimes, sometimes don't and some others, they blend. A Lawful follows them, but could blend them. A Chaotic, doesn't follow them just becaue, he does as he feels it's fair in his mindset, over any customs and rules (contracts too, I guess). Jason is straight Chaotic. And he's usually good, but he can do bad too, when he's hurt or too angry. He leans towards neutral at times, I think.

[QUOTE=RedBird;4735605]For D&D alignment, I ultimately go with Chaotic Good for Jason.[/QUOTE]

100% agreed

Forget that. I was thinking, even when he was hurting innocent others (like Tim in TTs), his ideals were still pursuing a good end in Under the Hood. So yeah, you guys are right, he's Chaotic Good 100%.

At his core, Jason is a good guy.
Even when he was pretty much braindead and living alone on the streets having nothing, he still shared with others.

From Batman Annual #25:

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/94AhOOR.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/inRJAfT.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4735644]Forget that. I was thinking, even when he was hurting innocent others (like Tim in TTs), his ideals were still pursuing a good end in Under the Hood. So yeah, you guys are right, he's Chaotic Good 100%.[/QUOTE]Don't know, some incarnations line BftC or Mother Panic (in the beginning) are clearly going in the evil direction.

Earth-15 Jason was probably Lawfull (or at least Neutral), and the pre crisis version was probably also not really chaotic (at least not more then the rest of the Batfamily).

But the main universe Version imo clearly chaotic good, and imo much easier to place in the dnd alignment spectrum then a lot of the other members.

[QUOTE=Aahz;4736218]Don't know, some incarnations line BftC or Mother Panic (in the beginning) are clearly going in the evil direction.

Earth-15 Jason was probably Lawfull (or at least Neutral), and the pre crisis version was probably also not really chaotic (at least not more then the rest of the Batfamily).

But the main universe Version imo clearly chaotic good, and imo much easier to place in the dnd alignment spectrum then a lot of the other members.[/QUOTE]

We do not speak of pre-Flashpoint post-UTRH Jason here. Such is the evil of that time.

A lovely Jason by [URL="https://stariver00.tumblr.com/"]stariver00[/URL] to cheer up your day!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]90316[/ATTACH]

[URL="https://twitter.com/yosuga0101/status/1206558828726079488"]@yosuga0101[/URL]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL6O26nVAAEtYsD?format=jpg[/IMG]

[URL="https://twitter.com/lkjhg_0fdsa/status/1206437277997486081"]@lkjhg_0fdsa[/URL]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL4gPyRU4AAPxDh?format=jpg[/IMG]

[URL="https://twitter.com/lkjhg_0fdsa/status/1206573474610696193"]@lkjhg_0fdsa[/URL]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL6cJ4zVUAAa-yI?format=jpg[/IMG]

Wizard Jason. You know what immediately came to mind? "Abra ka-f*** you!"

Something which Jason would most definitely say to the likes of Dumbledore, Umbridge, Voldemort, and just about anyone else that would try to control/manipulate him. Which, come to think of it, is a lot in Harry Potter (hindsight being 20/20)...

[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4736599]Wizard Jason. You know what immediately came to mind? "Abra ka-f*** you!"

Something which Jason would most definitely say to the likes of Dumbledore, Umbridge, Voldemort, and just about anyone else that would try to control/manipulate him. Which, come to think of it, is a lot in Harry Potter (hindsight being 20/20)...[/QUOTE]

Huh. I'm of the opinion that Jason doesn't swear. He can be very defiant and offensive and defiant without using that sort of words.
A character I can see swearing just fine? Bucky in Marvel, for example, who, I think maybe, has actually said the F word once or twice in panel. Kaine Parker too. But for whatever reason, I picture Jason just being really polite when choosing his words for swearing, most of the time at least.

Which means that most of the fanfics don't get the voice I picture for him in my head.

Fanfic tends to use an image they already have then applied it to the character. Jason has a bad boy image so some authors use what bad boy supposed to be and apply it to him.

I remember before Tomasi/Gleason draw what his room looks like, people like to imagine Jason's room is messy, but nope, his rooms are neat. It's Tim and Dick, the good boys who are messy.

Then there's the poor street kids image combined with bad-boy image, people think he doesn't like school, but nope, he loves to read, loves to go to school (especially since he didn't have a chance as a poor kid).

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4736794]Fanfic tends to use an image they already have then applied it to the character. Jason has a bad boy image so some authors use what bad boy supposed to be and apply it to him.

I remember before Tomasi/Gleason draw what his room looks like, people like to imagine Jason's room is messy, but nope, his rooms are neat. It's Tim and Dick, the good boys who are messy.

Then there's the poor street kids image combined with bad-boy image, people think he doesn't like school, but nope, he loves to read, loves to go to school (especially since he didn't have a chance as a poor kid).[/QUOTE]

I've seen fanfics go both ways on the rooms, with some even having him as a minimalist.
As for the bad-boy image, I've seen it combined with the book/school nerd quite a bit. Well, not really the bad boy thing, so much as he likes to wear a leather jacket a lot and people in the fanfics take him for a "bad-boy" on first impression.

That is why it was hilarious that Jason can't hold his liquor in canon, while nearly every fan depicts him drinking beer by the gallon.

[URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/B6IzBPUhNuz/"]Jason Fabok[/URL]

[I]Joker from 2016. It was the teaser for Three Jokers. I've changed alot over these years and have changed how I approach the Joker. This image was based off of the Joker logo scene on the TV in Batman 1989.
[B]As for Three Jokers news, we are figuring out release dates right now. We will know soon![/B]

#batman #joker #threejokers #dccomics[/I]

[IMG]https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/e35/75540334_450716265626070_3353150695840415334_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=106&oh=fe0562421ee31d7297e2f2bead3db243&oe=5EB1E71B[/IMG]

[IMG]https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/e35/76799758_2427221304217858_5908920280974591882_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=110&oh=4965cfea78a61db264f79d522b4382aa&oe=5E916EFC[/IMG]

[IMG]https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/e35/77098055_424813085062797_2714116735121097493_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=109&oh=12e88423634e02db5a98e3f3c59e65f6&oe=5E8D650E[/IMG]

Finally! It's taking forever to come out.

Have you guys heard about the 5G rumors? What do you think it could mean for Jason?

[QUOTE=Dark_Tzitzimine;4737121]That is why it was hilarious that Jason can't hold his liquor in canon, while nearly every fan depicts him drinking beer by the gallon.[/QUOTE]

This is changing slowly but steadily, I guess, because it's funny that he just can't hold, and that gives the chance for writing some funny gags. Also, it makes sense to some degree if the pit healed him; drink tolerance has to do with how your body has grown to manage those toxic chemichals (and a genetic profile too: some people can't just tolerate at all, not even when they grow old and are used to it),

[QUOTE=kaimaciel;4737157]Finally! It's taking forever to come out.

Have you guys heard about the 5G rumors? What do you think it could mean for Jason?[/QUOTE]

What rumours?

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4737243]What rumours?[/QUOTE]

All the big names are being replaced, with Jon Kent taking over Supe's place for example.

[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4737300]All the big names are being replaced, with Jon Kent taking over Supe's place for example.[/QUOTE]

Oh, but those are old. I thought it was something new, more recent.

Well, I don't think it's going to affect Jason. In fact, I think we're going to still have a regular Bruce Batman book sideways, in continuity, alongside a few other books, like Rhato (if isn't canned by then), Batgirl, JY, TT, etc.