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Even with that, you can argue that, despite anything related with his birth or whatever mystical stuff, he's still a hard worker to his bone. He was delivered some really awful cards that could've mean his death or his absolute fall even before he died, and he has played them the best he could. He still does. I usually fall for that kind of character, and that didn't bother me that much as all the "I win like it's nothing here, look at those fancy moves I'm so awesome, this is all so cool" that put me off entirely, and the idea of that convoluted plan to deceive and defeat Ra's and his plans (something that came from nowhere, or at least I don't remember it being somehow laid before it happened): that was, eh, not my taste. I did like Roy's and Kori's role, as far as I recall: they really, really were shown caring for Jason. But even with that, it bored me. I skipped throughout the last issue and maybe the one before that. It probably doesn't help that at that time I had just finished reading pre-PF Red Robin and, well, it was much more fun to read.
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[QUOTE=cc008;4640560]I actually liked the art a lot lol. Could you explain why the character assassination? Or why you find it that bad? I'd love to understand these characters more[/QUOTE]
Let's start with Jason. Something that has always characterized him is the fact that he will always do what [B]he[/B] thinks is right and will stand up for what he believes. And what Tynion do? Turn him into a weak-willed individual that needs to be told what to do. The entire arc Jason is being played like a fiddle by Ducra and the League. Tynion deciding to use an amnesia plotline didn't do him any favor either since it is one of the tritest and overused cliches. And whether he had to change things midways or not, the ending is unearned, with Jason's motivation being completely nonsensical. But the worst part is that Tynion intentionally fooled the reader by retconning Jason's and Ducra meeting in issue 19 when it was shown again in issue 27. Tying him to the League is incredibly forced (especially with Damian existing), adding baggage to Jason that doesn't add anything and just works to enforce the misconception that Jason was written in the N52 like this Mary Sue, able to anything and everything.
Roy relationship with Jason has always been a complicated issue amidst comic fans, but in general, Lobdell made an effort to show them like the kind of "bro" friendship one can find among high schoolers, a lot of bant, reluctance to acknowledge the relationship as genuine friendship and so on. And yet, Roy was never depicted as being clingy. Tynion outright made Roy unwilling to live without Jason and generally turned him into a whiny caricature of how Lobdell wrote him during the previous 18 issues. He also exaggerated Roy's knack for invention, taking a very literal interpretation of the Arsenal name, by arming him to the teeth and making him pull stuff that it wouldn't be out of place in the trashiest 90s comic.
I honestly can't even recall what was Kori characterization besides some vague impressions that he made her very moody and prone to violence.
The idea that the League would have a mythical, secret city is laughably bad, and it doesn't mesh with any previous depiction of the league. the most they've been shown to have is hidden fortresses and the like. They are also martial artists so Tynion's OCs, are awfully out of place. Having them stomp over everyone else just to show how cool they are, just make them more insufferable, so it is no wonder no one mentioned them ever again. Same with Bronze Tiger's power to turn into a weretiger.
Ra's was written like a cartoon villain, with none of the nuance or depth he usually has, with the cherry on the top of the crappy cake is him being defeated by something out of a Saturday Morning Cartoon.
Lobdell never fully explored the lore behind the All Caste and the Untitled, but it was obvious the whole thing wasn't as fantastical as Tynion wrote it. So the whole thing just comes off as forced, and Jason becoming this chosen one is in extremely bad taste. So bad that even Lobdell took a jab at it later, when he wrote Jason telling to Ducra's face that he would never be a chosen one.
Dunno, the whole thing is just poorly planned and written, with the kind of plot holes and poor characterization that I'd expect from a fanfiction writer, not a professional one.
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Thanks so much for going into detail. I can agree that Jason always doing what he believes to be right appears to be super evident to me and being strung along isn't great. I didn't mind the amnesia stuff because to a new reader like me, I was learning about his past as it was explored. (However poorly more veteran fans may find it).
I'm reading through Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, RHATO, and Batman and Robin all from New 52.. trying to absorb as much as possible.
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[QUOTE=cc008;4640812]Thanks so much for going into detail. I can agree that Jason always doing what he believes to be right appears to be super evident to me and being strung along isn't great. I didn't mind the amnesia stuff because to a new reader like me, I was learning about his past as it was explored. (However poorly more veteran fans may find it).
I'm reading through Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, RHATO, and Batman and Robin all from New 52.. trying to absorb as much as possible.[/QUOTE]
Just to point this out; I wouldn't get too attached to the New52. Even for Jason, whom was largely left alone in regards to characterization, had his New52 origin retconned back to post-Crisis.
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[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4640883]Just to point this out; I wouldn't get too attached to the New52. Even for Jason, whom was largely left alone in regards to characterization, had his New52 origin retconned back to post-Crisis.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't retconned, the two were combined. Plus, the entire of Rebirth run heavily references and/or alludes the N52 and DCYOU runs.
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So Jason met Bruce stealing the tyres, but he actually crossed paths with him when he stole from Leslie (it was Leslie, right?)? And he thought he was born in a hospital, but according to the letter, he was born in his home. There seems to be some minor contradictions, or at the very least, an unclear sequence of events.
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4640991]So Jason met Bruce stealing the tyres, but he actually crossed paths with him when he stole from Leslie (it was Leslie, right?)? And he thought he was born in a hospital, but according to the letter, he was born in his home. There seems to be some minor contradictions, or at the very least, an unclear sequence of events.[/QUOTE]
Probably the latter. If they settle on a timeline, they can simply explain the inconsistencies by saying those were said by unreliable narrators.
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[QUOTE=Dark_Tzitzimine;4641047]Probably the latter. If they settle on a timeline, they can simply explain the inconsistencies by saying those were said by unreliable narrators.[/QUOTE]
Mmmm... Well, the unreliable narrator is kind of present in Jason's stories, wouldn't be the first time. So yeah, I can see them going that way.
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I don't like the New52 Leslie origin. I hate the idea of Jason stealing from a woman who just helped him. The post-crisis origin is perfect. There was never a need for a change.
I also hate the unreliable narrator trope. It's a cheap trick to retcon stuff that wasn't liked by readers.
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[QUOTE=Sergard;4641317]I don't like the New52 Leslie origin. I hate the idea of Jason stealing from a woman who just helped him. The post-crisis origin is perfect. There was never a need for a change.
I also hate the unreliable narrator trope. It's a cheap trick to retcon stuff that wasn't liked by readers.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, Lobdell messed with something that was already iconic and didn't need any changes. I've already made posts about this, so I'm not gonna pull out panels again but suffice to say, Jason claims on both origins that that is when he 'met Batman'. In the context, you can't meet someone twice. It's contradiction. So I don't care what Lobdell says, I'm just grateful the tire origin is back, and a good riddance to the drug theft origin. Not only did it miss the point of Jasons character and give absolutely NOTHING in it's place that displayed his attitude and virtues as the tire origin did, it even made Bruce seem like a heartless brute ready to arrest a homeless kid if not for Leslie coming in and imploring Bruce not to arrest Jason.
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My Jason Todd display at BatCon 2019! :cool:
[url=https://postimg.cc/XpqJy44Q][img]https://i.postimg.cc/YqfmZCVK/IMG-20191020-142535-069.jpg[/img][/url]
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[QUOTE=Ssstammerer;4641420]My Jason Todd display at BatCon 2019! :cool:
[url=https://postimg.cc/XpqJy44Q][img]https://i.postimg.cc/XpqJy44Q/IMG-20191020-142535-069.jpg[/img][/url][/QUOTE]
Very impressive!
Also, September sales numbers are out
123. RED HOOD OUTLAW #38 (DC) - 18,425 [125]
[url]https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2019/2019-09.html[/url]
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Good. Still towards the 18.5k.
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[QUOTE=cc008;4640812]Thanks so much for going into detail. I can agree that Jason always doing what he believes to be right appears to be super evident to me and being strung along isn't great. I didn't mind the amnesia stuff because to a new reader like me, I was learning about his past as it was explored. (However poorly more veteran fans may find it).
I'm reading through Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, RHATO, and Batman and Robin all from New 52.. trying to absorb as much as possible.[/QUOTE]
A little off-topic: In case you like the mystical stuff in Tynion's arc, you should give "The Immortal Men" by Tynion a try. The comic was part of the New Age of Heroes initiative and only has six issues (sadly).
[QUOTE=Ssstammerer;4641420]My Jason Todd display at BatCon 2019! :cool:
[url=https://postimg.cc/XpqJy44Q][img]https://i.postimg.cc/XpqJy44Q/IMG-20191020-142535-069.jpg[/img][/url][/QUOTE]
Nice collection. Are you planing on getting the XM Studios Red Hood 1/6 statue too?
Okay, what did I miss? ([URL="https://twitter.com/DCUTitans/status/1186341377908625408"]source[/URL])
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHalx_YUwAAmcHm?format=jpg[/IMG]
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Season 2 Episode 7 of Titans was a rough one for Jason. So much so that it left a rather large elephant in the room that needs to be addressed but I don’t know if they’ll do it properly.
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[QUOTE=Sergard;4642242]
Okay, what did I miss? ([URL="https://twitter.com/DCUTitans/status/1186341377908625408"]source[/URL])
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHalx_YUwAAmcHm?format=jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
[spoil]Someone is messing with the old Titans gen's heads and they blamed Jason because... because (no reason or whatsoever. They just went and did it). Jason, who was dealing with some serious damage from falling down all the way up a skycraper (because you cannot have a Jason without PTSD, heh), and probably older stuff. Then the kid went to the roof (or maybe it was a very spacious balcony), put himself on the ledge and looked down. Yeah, this is implying that he was thinking about trowing himself down the Titan's tower. Then Dick, who has just arrived there after dealing with his own psychosis, realized that Jason was nowhere to be seen, went up, and talked him down the ledge... more or less. That quote was what Jason said to Dick. Seems like Titans-Jason is blaming himself for everything wrong around him. I think he also called himself "poison". He also said that he was broken, iirc.[/spoil]
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4641886]Good. Still towards the 18.5k.[/QUOTE]And now on par with Deathstroke.
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[QUOTE=Aahz;4643185]And now on par with Deathstroke.[/QUOTE]
I can't believe Deathstroke lowered so much its sales. Wasn't it always around the 30k? But then, it seems like every book has lost quite a few figures. And it's another small-base series, too.
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4643212]I can't believe Deathstroke lowered so much its sales. Wasn't it always around the 30k? But then, it seems like every book has lost quite a few figures. And it's another small-base series, too.[/QUOTE]It used to have lower sales then RHatO, untill they started to use Gimmiks (Puttuing him up against Batman, Putting him in Arkham, Cross Over with Teen Titans, Killing him).
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[QUOTE=Aahz;4643288]It used to have lower sales then RHatO, untill they started to use Gimmiks (Puttuing him up against Batman, Putting him in Arkham, Cross Over with Teen Titans, Killing him).[/QUOTE]
You may be onto something.
I remember picking up the Deathstroke teen titans and batman crossovers by themselves and enjoying those few issues for the guest stars, (Bruce, Damian, Tim etc).
Now that I've been backtracking and reading Deathstroke issue one+rebirth onward for the two months or so, those crossovers are actually SUPER annoying when you're actually just interested in Deathstrokes overarching narrative.
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[QUOTE=Aahz;4643288]It used to have lower sales then RHatO, untill they started to use Gimmiks (Puttuing him up against Batman, Putting him in Arkham, Cross Over with Teen Titans, Killing him).[/QUOTE]
Oh, I see. I wasn't looking every month at its sales when I was reading, but I remember that it was selling low but fine when I stopped reading (this spring, almost already in summer).
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[URl="https://twitter.com/drawingcookie1/status/1184636048191741952"]drawing-cookie[/URl]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHCsND9WoAE7_ik?format=jpg[/IMG]
[URl="https://twitter.com/nockuth/status/1186670067171258368"]nockuth[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHfmIpRUwAAEzlc?format=jpg[/IMG]
[URl="https://twitter.com/VirtualMocking1/status/1186399210708590592"]Virtual_Mockingbird[/URl]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHbvyQdXYAEB-Jv?format=jpg[/IMG]
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[URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/B32vrZcgd6t/"]jiaren584[/URL]
[IMG]https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/f98baf713df85a9d58e67fdf3ff56579/5E64A71F/t51.2885-15/e35/p1080x1080/73475356_2401994729855865_2906069505377977394_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=109[/IMG]
[URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/B35_sdUh02p/"]John Timms[/URL]
[IMG]https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/91225d0eb680bcdcce22cd18df8a4562/5E4A78AC/t51.2885-15/e35/73003115_524449275004781_8560945575073135564_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=105[/IMG]
[URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/B35TSv8BTmJ/"]JAGZ[/URL]
[IMG]https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/8875841540cb8a806c2c331d12770ac9/5E5AA6F6/t51.2885-15/e35/71812334_553991278746301_6113927523928298567_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=101[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Sergard;4642242]Nice collection. Are you planing on getting the XM Studios Red Hood 1/6 statue too?[/QUOTE]
Thanks! Probably, yeah. So far I only have 4 statues of Jason; New 52 Koto, DC Collectibles Arkham Knight Red Hood, a bootleg of Koto Arkham Knight, and my newly acquired DC Collectibles Batman Family Multi-Part Statue Red Hood.
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This bad boy arrived last night! ;)
[url=https://postimg.cc/3d4FDZhC][img]https://i.postimg.cc/vHXqkPSj/IMG-20191022-204543-726.jpg[/img][/url]
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[QUOTE=Ssstammerer;4644590]This bad boy arrived last night! ;)
[url=https://postimg.cc/3d4FDZhC][img]https://i.postimg.cc/vHXqkPSj/IMG-20191022-204543-726.jpg[/img][/url][/QUOTE]
I love that statue. I like the pose, but also find the way he leans into some arquitecture thing quite clever, helping the pose in looking more natural.
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Gotta vote for Jason.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/KMgPYHm.jpg[/img]
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Well, whoever the redhead with a white streak in [B]White Knight[/B] is
[spoil]
It's in a flashback of Leslie and Alfred from when Bruce was still young. So it has to be Jason Blood.
Unless there's some weird time shenanigans going on. But eh, this guys's clearly a magician.
Not unexpected, but I'm still wondering if we will really see whatever happened with Jason in the end.
[/spoil]
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[QUOTE=Dark_Tzitzimine;4645432]Gotta vote for Jason.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/KMgPYHm.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Isn't that Flamingo on the cover? Strange character choice. When was even the last time he appeared in comics?
"Best supporting villain" is also an odd category. Since when do villains support other villains?
And is this the whole list? Seems a little short, considering that the DC universe is full of villains. Where are the villains from other comics like Batgirl, Nightwing, Supergirl, Justice League Dark and Justice League Odyssey?
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[QUOTE=Sergard;4646158]Isn't that Flamingo on the cover? Strange character choice. When was even the last time he appeared in comics?
"Best supporting villain" is also an odd category. Since when do villains support other villains?
And is this the whole list? Seems a little short, considering that the DC universe is full of villains. Where are the villains from other comics like Batgirl, Nightwing, Supergirl, Justice League Dark and Justice League Odyssey?[/QUOTE]
Is just counting the ones who got a YOTV tie-in.
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[QUOTE=Ssstammerer;4644590]This bad boy arrived last night! ;)
[url=https://postimg.cc/3d4FDZhC][img]https://i.postimg.cc/vHXqkPSj/IMG-20191022-204543-726.jpg[/img][/url][/QUOTE]
I wonder if this figure can be used as a bookend.
[QUOTE=Dark_Tzitzimine;4646361]Is just counting the ones who got a YOTV tie-in.[/QUOTE]
There are more YotV tie-ins.
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[URL="https://twitter.com/yuki6093331blue/status/1186654483784159233"]YB[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHfX9MOU0AENMBP?format=jpg[/IMG]
[URL="https://twitter.com/_hian_nm/status/1187040580376743936"]@_hian_nm[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHk3GywUwAAs03i?format=jpg[/IMG]
[URL="https://twitter.com/yshanggua2/status/1186867133524799489"]@yshanggua2[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHiZXLzU0AI6kFM?format=jpg[/IMG]
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[URL="https://twitter.com/fade_bottomjay/status/1187376797408735232"]Fade[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHpo5OmWwAErt_3?format=png[/IMG]
[URL="https://twitter.com/akkiyamia/status/1187354794744111104"]remina[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHpU4olU8AQ1zcd?format=jpg[/IMG]
[URL="https://twitter.com/_Sae0000/status/1186694938924158976"]@_Sae0000[/URL]
[I]His partner, his soldier, his failure.[/I]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHf8vsqVUAAVrwj?format=jpg[/IMG]
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[URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/B3_Cj2vh-QO/"]Travis Mercer[/URL]
[I]Digital doodling of Mr. Todd, sure win for teacher of the year! If you guys have not been reading this title by @scottylobdell you need to jump on and add this title to your pull list! Seriously it’s one of my favorite monthlies!!![/I]
[IMG]https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/c0b62aefa1d340f76b53de8e616280a7/5E463B90/t51.2885-15/e35/s1080x1080/73401877_575537726525032_4550799551900674793_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=104[/IMG]
[URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/B3-Fbd-DRDB/"]Philip Tan[/URL]
[I]Really doubt I’d complete #Inktober now... but let’s all blame it on failing tools and techs XD Now, maybe Jason would have been a #Huawei user and not worry about these.... More graphiteless art... [/I]
[IMG]https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/cefeee52296cd07446892d72fa9f14df/5E4C18A2/t51.2885-15/e35/p1080x1080/75225499_1294338167413071_770388259618931531_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=103[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Sergard;4647891][URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/B3_Cj2vh-QO/"]Travis Mercer[/URL]
[I]Digital doodling of Mr. Todd, sure win for teacher of the year! If you guys have not been reading this title by @scottylobdell you need to jump on and add this title to your pull list! Seriously it’s one of my favorite monthlies!!![/I]
[IMG]https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/c0b62aefa1d340f76b53de8e616280a7/5E463B90/t51.2885-15/e35/s1080x1080/73401877_575537726525032_4550799551900674793_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=104[/IMG]
[URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/B3-Fbd-DRDB/"]Philip Tan[/URL]
[I]Really doubt I’d complete #Inktober now... but let’s all blame it on failing tools and techs XD Now, maybe Jason would have been a #Huawei user and not worry about these.... More graphiteless art... [/I]
[IMG]https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/cefeee52296cd07446892d72fa9f14df/5E4C18A2/t51.2885-15/e35/p1080x1080/75225499_1294338167413071_770388259618931531_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=103[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Ah, I love how much fun artists (professional or not) always have of drawing every suit that Jason uses.
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[URL="https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?130602-Rumor-DC-preparing-a-new-slate-of-shows-for-HBO-Max"]Rumor: DC preparing a new slate of shows for HBO Max [/URL]
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/DCEUleaks/comments/dka6q9/upcoming_dcu_cw_hbo_max_dc_shows_rtvleaks/"]Upcoming DCU, CW & HBO Max DC shows - r/TVLeaks[/URL] (unverified)
[QUOTE]
These are all the potential upcoming shows that I've heard about recently. I will be updating this list constantly:
DC Universe
Jaime Blue Beetle
Kyle Rainer Green Lantern
[B]Red Hood Titans spin-off (is 100000% going to happen, just not right now)[/B]
Superboy Titans spin-off (an idea they have right now)
Hawk and Dove spin-off (was supposed to happen back in S1 but didn't, its still on the table).[/QUOTE]
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Yes!
Though I wonder who he'll have as supporting cast.
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[QUOTE=Sergard;4647920][URL="https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?130602-Rumor-DC-preparing-a-new-slate-of-shows-for-HBO-Max"]Rumor: DC preparing a new slate of shows for HBO Max [/URL]
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/DCEUleaks/comments/dka6q9/upcoming_dcu_cw_hbo_max_dc_shows_rtvleaks/"]Upcoming DCU, CW & HBO Max DC shows - r/TVLeaks[/URL] (unverified)[/QUOTE]
I'm super excited with the idea of any of the first three. More so if it's HBO, a production by them is almost always good at least, and sometimes, great (but I guess it will be something like a CW series, most probably, sigh). The other two, well, I don't know Titan's superboy enough to look forward to it, even if I liked him so far. And Hawk and Dove are nice, but don't get me interested in them enough to watch a whole series.
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This bit makes me doubt the accuracy of the whole thing
[QUOTE]Lobo (it's the Krypton spinoff show that got announced right before Krypton got canceled. Krypton connection up in the air now)[/QUOTE]
The show was killed [I]alongside[/I] Krypton's cancellation, not announced.
[url]https://deadline.com/2019/08/krypton-canceled-after-two-seasons-spinoff-lobo-not-moving-forward-on-syfy-1202669840/[/url]
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Another rumor: [URL="https://www.cbr.com/batman-arkham-legacy-batfamily-playable/"]REPORT: New Batman Game Titled 'Arkham Legacy,' Entire Batfamily Is Playable[/URL]
As far as I understand, the game itself is still a rumor, or? And the "entire batfamily is playable" is a rumor within the rumor.
