Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2019

[QUOTE=Sergard;4319616]Look what I [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/bgd6t1/updated_batboys_and_their_justice_league/"]found on Reddit[/URL].
Thoughts?

Personally, I prefer Jason and Roy as friends but not as team partners (and I love it in general when Roy interacts with the batboys. There are only a few moments between him and Damian but those few I really enjoyed. I also believe that Roy and Tim could have a really great dynamic.) I would actually exchange Roy with Connor Hawke. I have a feeling that Jason and Connor could make an awesome team-up.

And I think this picture is meant to separate the families in "generations" - but I don't really care about that aspect. I actually dislike the idea that characters have to stick with their age group. (So that's a plus for the Outlaws since Artemis is older than Jason and Bizarro is only like a month old.)

I'd put Kyle or Guy in Jason's line. And call me crazy but I'd also like to see Jason and Jay Garrick interact.

No idea for the Aquaman family.

If this was an extended grid with more family members I'd put Kara and Barbara together - and Batwoman and John Stewart since both have a military background.[/QUOTE]

For the Aquaman counterpart, we could have a girl, for a change (but because I know near to nothing about Atlantis, I cannot give any name). And I don't know, but I wouldn't put Guy with him. Guy's the JLI lantern, he has his "League" team. Kyle, I don't know. Could work with a few tweaks I guess; but I suspect they could clash as much as Jason does with Dick (in any case, both are older than Jason, so not a same-age team, that's for sure. EDIT: wait, was Kyle older? We discussed this issue previously, and the conclusion was that he wasn't much older, right? ikn). For a speedster, I don't know either. Jay's an interesting choice, because let's be honest: badass grampas are cool (and he shares the name with Jason and that's funny). But he belongs to the JSA. I don't like the idea of Goodspeed. I stopped reading Flash because I got bored, and I did it around when that story arc finished. As far as I recall, he was a full-shaped villain, with no remorse or whatsoever about playing with/getting killed/killing innocent lives and stuff. And it wasn't even an original idea either (it reminded me of Zoom a lot). But maybe something else happened afterwards, I don't know. I'm still waiting for them to bring back Max Mercury (who was a very important supporting character for Wally and Bart. Zen elder Speedster), but he doesn't fit this team either (but ah, it's so pulpy...). Maybe we could use Jesse Quick somehow? I think she has been more a support character and a plot tool than anything (as far as I remember from my 90's Flash read. And for what I'm seeing in the wiki, she's mostly that in other books too).

But the thing is that I don't think we need to match the Justice League members. It makes me sad that Jason doesn't have his own counterparts, shows how isolated he has been and still is. But I think that not giving him a clone JL team could be interesting, a fresh read (one I could like as much as I liked the JL team that had Booster, Beetle, Mister Miracle, Black Canary, Guy...). Not every team needs to be a match 1:1. In fact, I think it's better if they're not.

I like the idea of the Outlaws being a mixed bag of misfits of various ages. Helps them stand out a bit instead of being based around another “generation” of heroes.

About Connor vs. Roy. Connor has the benefit that he is not really close with any of the other Batfamily members (opposed to Roy who is also supposed to be one of Dicks closest friends). It is also kind of fitting since while Jason is the Black Sheep of the Batfamily, while Connor is probably the only Arrow Family member who is not deeply flawed. So he is kind of the opposite of Jason. (But I think Bonnie King like she was written in Young Justice could also be fun, if you want someone older on the team).

When it comes to a Green Lantern I think Gnort could fit. Guy I only know from his appearance in the classic JLI, and that didn't really make me a fan of this character and Kyle belongs more in Dick's Generation, and I at least in Count Down he and Jason really hate each other. (Or one could take someone from another Lantern Corps).

When it comes to the Flash Family, the only one I can come up with is Owen Mercer (Boomeren Jr.). Even if he has only minimal speedster powers, but he is roughly the right age, and was at least pre flashpoint Bart Allens Half-Brother.

[QUOTE=Aahz;4319789]About Connor vs. Roy. Connor has the benefit that he is not really close with any of the other Batfamily members (opposed to Roy who is also supposed to be one of Dicks closest friends). It is also kind of fitting since while Jason is the Black Sheep of the Batfamily, while Connor is probably the only Arrow Family member who is not deeply flawed. So he is kind of the opposite of Jason. (But I think Bonnie King like she was written in Young Justice could also be fun, if you want someone older on the team).

When it comes to a Green Lantern I think Gnort could fit. Guy I only know from his appearance in the classic JLI, and that didn't really make me a fan of this character and Kyle belongs more in Dick's Generation, and I at least in Count Down he and Jason really hate each other. (Or one could take someone from another Lantern Corps).

When it comes to the Flash Family, the only one I can come up with is Owen Mercer (Boomeren Jr.). Even if he has only minimal speedster powers, but he is roughly the right age, and was at least pre flashpoint Bart Allens Half-Brother.[/QUOTE]

Hey, I LOVE the idea of bringing in Gnort!!!!!

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4319741]EDIT: wait, was Kyle older? We discussed this issue previously, and the conclusion was that he wasn't much older, right? ikn).[/QUOTE]Pre Flashpoint he was arround the age of Dick (maybe even a bit older). At the moment it is hard to say, since we don't even know the age differnce between Joson and Dick.

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4319741] Maybe we could use Jesse Quick somehow? [/QUOTE]She was pre flashpoint one of the central members of the JSA, and she doesn't really fit the outlaws imo. But I never read the Flash series, so I have not really an Idea, which of the numerous Speedsters fits into an Anti Hero role, those that I know are either heroes or villains.

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4319741]EDIT: wait, was Kyle older? We discussed this issue previously, and the conclusion was that he wasn't much older, right? ikn).[/QUOTE]

When it was last brought up here, you asked the [URL="https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?120002-Kyle-Rayner-Appreciation-2019/page2&p=4125643#post4125643"]question[/URL] in Kyle's appreciation thread. I think the roundabout conclusion was that pre-flashpoint he was definitely in the age range of the original Titans. Someone reading his run said Kyle mentioned being in his early 20's in the earlier issues. Another stated that he was mentioned to be a bit younger than Wally. I'm also pretty sure Donna mentions being a bit older than him at some point.

Connor is kinda unofficially considered Jason's generation so-to-speak and Kyle's older than him, no?

---

Based on what the OP's criteria for the chart was:
[QUOTE]My criteria for this chart was at least some interactions between the members (that’s why I didn’t add Jason-August although I would absolutely love to see them interact)

I basically kept a maximum 1 family member per Batboy that’s why I don’t have Dick-Clark, Tim-Lagoon boy and Tim-Conner.

I also used Roy twice mainly because I feel like he really fits well with both Dick and Jason, he is part of the Original 5 Titans and is Jason’s best friend since new-52.[/QUOTE]
Jason should have Kyle as his GL, right? They interacted more than Dick and Kyle did (I only remember the Obsidian Age storyline and Hal's funeral)?

[QUOTE=Lirica;4320443]Connor is kinda unofficially considered Jason's generation so-to-speak and Kyle's older than him, no?[/QUOTE]Connor was iirc pre Flashpoint closer in age to the original Titans (while Jason was techincally closer in age to Tim's generation), during his time as main Green Arrow, they did establish a friendship between him, Wally and Kyle.

But Connor and Jason are both in between Dick's and Tim's generation, but that was a gap of at least 8 years.

Some rand thoughts about the chart:

- While Kyle is close with several members of Dick's Tiatans, I can remember that he and Interacted much, iirc Dick was usually not on the team when Kyle was

- Technically Jimmy Olsen is more Dicks counter part in the Superman family, they had even team ups and their own secret base in the silver age

- Tim has technically to Aquaman and two Arrow counterparts, Laggon Boy and Lorena Marquez, and Arrowette and Mia Dreaden

- Wally's kids would actually fit better in Damians generation than Wally II

- Jackson Hyde seems out of place in Damians generation, age wise he seems to belong in Jason's generation

Jason can take Koryak if he ever needs an Aquafamily member. I would rather see Dolphin interact with him though.

[QUOTE=Aahz;4320378]Pre Flashpoint he was arround the age of Dick (maybe even a bit older). At the moment it is hard to say, since we don't even know the age differnce between Joson and Dick.

She was pre flashpoint one of the central members of the JSA, and she doesn't really fit the outlaws imo. But I never read the Flash series, so I have not really an Idea, which of the numerous Speedsters fits into an Anti Hero role, those that I know are either heroes or villains.[/QUOTE]

As fa as I recall, she's not an anti-hero, but she has experience dealing with stubborn people (Wally) and people with problems of some sort (Bart). She also seems to have been through a lot, by what I see in the wiki. I don't know. From the Wally run as Flash, and what I read of Rebirth (the stuff I've read with a Flash in there, besides Flashpoint), there isn't a lot of anti-heros in that brand. I guess we can always bring back Walter, but, eh, with the direcion Wally's going now, it would be a bit redundant, I think. If it can be something else than a speedster, pre-FP Pied Piper sort of fit the criteria, I think. But he hasn't interacted with Jason and is older.

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4320619]As fa as I recall, she's not an anti-hero, but she has experience dealing with stubborn people (Wally) and people with problems of some sort (Bart). She also seems to have been through a lot, by what I see in the wiki. I don't know. [/QUOTE]But she was a leader of one Group of the JSA (iirc the more classic one) and was also later a JLA member.

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4320619]From the Wally run as Flash, and what I read of Rebirth (the stuff I've read with a Flash in there, besides Flashpoint), there isn't a lot of anti-heros in that brand. I guess we can always bring back Walter, but, eh, with the direcion Wally's going now, it would be a bit redundant, I think. If it can be something else than a speedster, pre-FP Pied Piper sort of fit the criteria, I think. But he hasn't interacted with Jason and is older.[/QUOTE]Just based on a little bit of googeling (I know next to nothing about these characters), potential candidates seem for me:
- Owen Mercer/Capatin Boomerang Jr.
- Meena Dhawan/Negative Flash
- Alexa Antigone/Fuerza (a User of the Strength Force)
- Daniel West/Reverse-Flash (he wanted at least to become a Hero in Suicide Squad)

[QUOTE=Aahz;4320638]But she was a leader of one Group of the JSA (iirc the more classic one) and was also later a JLA member.

Just based on a little bit of googeling (I know next to nothing about these characters), potential candidates seem for me:
- Owen Mercer/Capatin Boomerang Jr.
- Meena Dhawan/Negative Flash
- Alexa Antigone/Fuerza (a User of the Strength Force)
[B]- Daniel West/Reverse-Flash (he wanted at least to become a Hero in Suicide Squad[/B])[/QUOTE]

Daniel could be interesting, I think, by the little I know about him.

Meena is a supporting character for Barry, and she's heroic-ish, kind of how Huntress is, as far as I recall (she's also a very new character). Owen I don't know him, but I don't think DC would want two active captain boomerangs at the same time: he probably needs a new alias. I know nothing about Alexa, to be honest, but hey, I love gravity manipulation as a superpower: I would read that too.

[URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bwn9MCWAbll/"]Jonboy Meyers[/URL]

[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/c758ea4df3f689cae1d1ba8985585724/tumblr_pqgv19n7yx1syvn07_540.jpg[/img]

Looks like its based off of Soy's Red Ronin design :D

[ATTACH=CONFIG]81586[/ATTACH]
Jason's current design as drawn by Soy
[url]https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status/1121067492120522758[/url]

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4319741][...]
But the thing is that I don't think we need to match the Justice League members. It makes me sad that Jason doesn't have his own counterparts, shows how isolated he has been and still is. But I think that not giving him a clone JL team could be interesting, a fresh read (one I could like as much as I liked the JL team that had Booster, Beetle, Mister Miracle, Black Canary, Guy...). Not every team needs to be a match 1:1. In fact, I think it's better if they're not.[/QUOTE]

I agree that the Outlaws don't need to match the Justice League members 1:1 - and they better shouldn't. The Dark Trinity aspect is a nice idea and I hope the comic continues to use Jason, Bizarro and Artemis as core members of the Outlaws but there is no need to exaggerate the concept by turning the Dark Trinity in a Dark Justice League. Three is a good number and leaves some space for guest appearances and semi-regularly appearing characters. So it's actually better that there aren't 100% fitting counterparts for Jason in the other big franchises. There can only be so many people on a team before it feels too crowded. Not to forget that not every franchise can carry as many characters as the Batman franchise does - and there are a lot of great DC characters that don't belong to a "family", like Bunker.

Instead of a Speedster I want to see Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil. I think he can teleport - but maybe I remember wrong. Although teleporting would be a good alternative to being fast.
And when it comes to characters who feel comfortable in the water: Killer Croc for the win.

But I'm still up for Jay Garrick having a guest appearance in the Red Hood comic.

[QUOTE=Sergard;4321815]I agree that the Outlaws don't need to match the Justice League members 1:1 - and they better shouldn't. The Dark Trinity aspect is a nice idea and I hope the comic continues to use Jason, Bizarro and Artemis as core members of the Outlaws but there is no need to exaggerate the concept by turning the Dark Trinity in a Dark Justice League. Three is a good number and leaves some space for guest appearances and semi-regularly appearing characters. So it's actually better that there aren't 100% fitting counterparts for Jason in the other big franchises. There can only be so many people on a team before it feels too crowded. Not to forget that not every franchise can carry as many characters as the Batman franchise does - and there are a lot of great DC characters that don't belong to a "family", like Bunker.

Instead of a Speedster I want to see Eddie Bloomberg/Red Devil. I think he can teleport - but maybe I remember wrong. Although teleporting would be a good alternative to being fast.
And when it comes to characters who feel comfortable in the water: Killer Croc for the win.

But I'm still up for Jay Garrick having a guest appearance in the Red Hood comic.[/QUOTE]

Hate to say it, but I think Eddie was killed at some point, off screen, in the past. Justice League Dark was going into an arc with Detective Chimp going down memory road about that.

[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4321833]Hate to say it, but I think Eddie was killed at some point, off screen, in the past. Justice League Dark was going into an arc with Detective Chimp going down memory road about that.[/QUOTE]

He has been killed in Heroes in Crisis.

[QUOTE=Zaresh;4321880]He has been killed in Heroes in Crisis.[/QUOTE]

I thought that was Blue Devil?

Still though. HiC is driving me further and further from most of DC's works. Red Hood being one of the exceptions.

[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4321928]I thought that was Blue Devil?

Still though. HiC is driving me further and further from most of DC's works. Red Hood being one of the exceptions.[/QUOTE]

It was Eddie.

I remember it was him because it added to the list of ex-titans who were killed. If I recall correctly, he even had one of those pages where the patients present themselves.

I know that Eddie died in HiC - and I don't care. Either ignore it or bring him back. Eddie is pretty much a demon by now. He'll probably just respawn in hell and return to earth. Easy fix.

[QUOTE=Sergard;4322436]I know that Eddie died in HiC - and I don't care. Either ignore it or bring him back. Eddie is pretty much a demon by now. He'll probably just respawn in hell and return to earth. Easy fix.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. He should be easy to bring back.

[QUOTE=Sergard;4322436]I know that Eddie died in HiC - and I don't care. Either ignore it or bring him back. Eddie is pretty much a demon by now. He'll probably just respawn in hell and return to earth. Easy fix.[/QUOTE]

Problem is, DC would rather focus on HiC and keep it canonical and other such depressing things, rather than on, well, hopeful things lately.

And we can't forget, this is "Year of the Villain", after all.

[URL="https://twitter.com/thatpetewoods/status/1121221712325087232"]Pete Woods[/URL]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D49hMwOX4AEnEdC.jpg[/IMG]

[URL="https://twitter.com/starlightdevil/status/1121274207399288832"]Javchan[/URL]:"[I]I cant be the only one who thought of this when the new Red Hood design came out. XD [/I]"

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4-QptgWkAEc545.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Sergard;4323077][URL="https://twitter.com/starlightdevil/status/1121274207399288832"]Javchan[/URL]:"[I]I cant be the only one who thought of this when the new Red Hood design came out. XD [/I]"

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4-QptgWkAEc545.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Ha ha. That one's adorable.

Curran Walters as Jason Todd in Titans season 2.

[IMG]https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/w:1987/h:1117/q:auto/https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/robin-3.jpg[/IMG]
(found [URL="https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/04/25/titans-season-2-curran-walters-offers-fresh-look-at-jason-todd-robin"]here[/URL])


Every time I see Curran Walters as Jason Todd with that messy hair I feel like Alfred Pennyworth is hiding somewhere with a hairbrush waiting for the right moment when Jason isn't paying enough attention so that he can overwhelm him and "fix" his hair.

[QUOTE=Sergard;4323106]Curran Walters as Jason Todd in Titans season 2.

[IMG]https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/w:1987/h:1117/q:auto/https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/robin-3.jpg[/IMG]
(found [URL="https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/04/25/titans-season-2-curran-walters-offers-fresh-look-at-jason-todd-robin"]here[/URL])


Every time I see Curran Walters as Jason Todd with that messy hair I feel like Alfred Pennyworth is hiding somewhere with a hairbrush waiting for the right moment when Jason isn't paying enough attention so that he can overwhelm him and "fix" his hair.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I think I like him in this version of Jason more each time I see a new picture of him in costume.

Finalized cover of Red Hood: Outlaw #34:

[IMG]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/766626/766626._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg[/IMG]


I love the coherent color choice but I'm not feeling the font.

The funny thing is, I could see Jason doing it just to troll him. lol

[QUOTE=Sergard;4323077][URL="https://twitter.com/starlightdevil/status/1121274207399288832"]Javchan[/URL]:"[I]I cant be the only one who thought of this when the new Red Hood design came out. XD [/I]"

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4-QptgWkAEc545.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

The poses are killing me. :D

More artwork by [URL="https://twitter.com/starlightdevil/status/1120038404777967616"]Javchan[/URL]:

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4ss8ewWwAEs8Qj.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4ss8evXsAEBf7s.jpg[/IMG]

Their chibis are adorable. I hope we'll see more from them.

Some new info about July's YOTV stuff
“And then in July, across the whole line, you’ll see Lex appear in the different books - basically every book - and offer the villain of that book something special and particular to that character that says, this is how you beat your hero.

And the villain will either take that offer or not take that offer. Maybe the hero will take that offer. Each story is particular to the writer and artist on that book”


“So the prompt from Lex Luthor, when he offers something to the villain of that book, is really based on whatever the writer/artist team of that book have decided to do or not do.We want you to feel like each thing is an individuated read and singular to your experience - not something that’s going to be co-opted by the story I’m talking about. But at the same time, if a writer and artist choose to tie in, and basically, everybody has, they’ve chosen to do so in a way that elevates the story you’re reading to the highest stakes possible.”

[url]https://www.newsarama.com/44899-scott-snyder-year-of-the-villain-propels-dcu-into-giant-year-end-battle.html[/url]

Guess that means the sidekicks in RH:O #36 come from Lobdell & not Snyder.

Reminds me of the old party game "Pin the Tail on the Donkey", or its more current version, "Pin the Ear on Van Gogh."

But is this a one-issue thing or are the sidekicks going to be in the book for a while? I just hope they don't push any storyline the writer had planned further in the future.

Well that's vastly preferable to the usual way ties in are handled across the books. Plus Luthor being involved with the Outlaws since the beginning helps with his reappearance now.

Jason still owes Luthor for saving Biz, doesn’t he?

Yeah, you're right. At least, we're lucky enough that Luthor was involved in the book at some point with the story of Bizarro and also with Artemis and the stuff that happened in Hierve el Agua. I hope Lobdell can use it to make the whole story work better.

[URL="https://jjmk-jjmk.tumblr.com/post/184459680517/fearless-arrogant-brash-and-gifted-jason"]JJMK[/URL]

[IMG]https://66.media.tumblr.com/2d2f842d8da404af1b4045eff02ad5eb/tumblr_pqkqq2JEui1wvpvsso1_1280.jpg[/IMG]

[URL="https://twitter.com/Dam_ATM_jason/status/1121793611694141440"]Dam_ATM_jason[/URL]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5FpVk7UUAQoA9c.jpg[/IMG]


[URL="https://twitter.com/dori_yagi/status/1121780683863498752"]dori_yagi[/URL]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5FdlciUIAAXKh0.jpg[/IMG]