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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4735342]I mean Jason would be considered a anti hero still? I mean he does things for money but still had his morals[/QUOTE]
He doesn't do things for money. Not beyond that one time for the short series before Rebirth.
And morality is personal. Just because he doesn't follow Bruce to a T doesn't mean he's a bad guy. Huntress doesn't either. Or Wonder Woman. I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of leaguers who don't, actually. What makes Jason gray isn't exactly his moral system, I think. It's that he's practical as hell, to the point of killing if the guys are dangerous enough to put people in peril (or, well, himself) or deal with bad guys (which, I've to point, is something other heroes have done before. Even Batman under certain writers).
I mean, the batfamily, all of them, operate outside the law. That's not exactly white.
Jason isn't Slade.
Edit: because Jason's practical, and emotional driven, he goes from anti-heroic (good guy, but not clear clean, and uses dubious methods. Would use people to reach an outcome but not endanger them to the point of hurt them. This would be John McClane from Die Hard, for example, even if he's pretty heroic imho), to anti-villanious (noble ends, but definitely bad methods: not only manipulates any kind of character no matter their alignment, he also is willed to hurt or even let them die, or kill them. This would be... let's see, I think Ozymandias from Watchmen fits the mold). This depends of how he feels about a subject. In a traditional D&D alignment chart, Jason is Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral depending on the situation at hand and his options and circumstances.
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He's a hero to me. And it's pretty cut and dry. He just likes to get his fingers a little dirtier than most. Winter Soldier, Wolverine, Cable, Black Widow (I use Marvel examples because that's who I'm most familiar with).. I consider them all heroes.
Vigilante =/= Anti-Hero
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[QUOTE=cc008;4735537]He's a hero to me. And it's pretty cut and dry. He just likes to get his fingers a little dirtier than most. Winter Soldier, Wolverine, Cable, Black Widow (I use Marvel examples because that's who I'm most familiar with).. I consider them all heroes.
Vigilante =/= Anti-Hero[/QUOTE]
Mmmmm.
Logan and Natasha, or, well, I think Bucky too depending on who writes him and when, are pretty Byronic, which is a kind of anti-hero. I don't know. A hero, classic or not, is way more heroic that what Logan can pull half the time and his own personal, conflicts and struggles. Same could be said for Natasha, imho.
But I agree: being a vigilante doesn't make you instantly an anti-hero. Blue Beetle would be a vigilante, I think. Or Spiderman. And you hardly could call any of them an anti-hero.
(Ah! Cable has that cool look and background, but yeah; he's very heroic, even if he likes to get his hands dirty)
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Let's use the D&D alignment
Lawful Good - Do-gooder, follow the law (Commissioner Gordon)
Neutral Good - Do-gooder willing to bend the law when necessary
Chaotic Good - Do-gooder not limited by law or tradition
Lawful Neutral - I follow the law even if it causes misery
True Neutral - Takes no sides
Chaotic Neutral - Screw the law I do what I want
Lawful Evil - Cause harm but still follow a code, law, or the boss
Neutral Evil - Cause harm based on what I think should be done
Chaotic Evil - Cause harm no matter which side
Which is Jason?
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For D&D alignment, I ultimately go with Chaotic Good for Jason.
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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4735597]Let's use the D&D alignment
Lawful Good - Do-gooder, follow the law (Commissioner Gordon)
Neutral Good - Do-gooder willing to bend the law when necessary
Chaotic Good - Do-gooder not limited by law or tradition
Lawful Neutral - I follow the law even if it causes misery
True Neutral - Takes no sides
Chaotic Neutral - Screw the law I do what I want
Lawful Evil - Cause harm but still follow a code, law, or the boss
Neutral Evil - Cause harm based on what I think should be done
Chaotic Evil - Cause harm no matter which side
Which is Jason?[/QUOTE]
I wonder if one could fill the D&D alignment grid with different versions of Jason alone (Father Todd, Mother Panic Jason, Gotham City Garage Jason, Injustice Jason, pre-crisis Jason, Hush Jason, Lego universe Jason, Titans Jason, Battle for the Cowl Jason, Morrison's Jason, Earth-15 Jason, Bombshells' Jason, Arkham Knight, etc.)
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He should be chaotic, either good or neutral, depending on his mood, imo. He would be neutral in Under the Hood, for example.
I think that Law in that system isn't tied to law alone. If my sesions and videogames are a goos example (I don't know...), it has more to do with what the rules, rulers and customs dictate. Neutrals follow them sometimes, sometimes don't and some others, they blend. A Lawful follows them, but could blend them. A Chaotic, doesn't follow them just becaue, he does as he feels it's fair in his mindset, over any customs and rules (contracts too, I guess). Jason is straight Chaotic. And he's usually good, but he can do bad too, when he's hurt or too angry. He leans towards neutral at times, I think.
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[QUOTE=RedBird;4735605]For D&D alignment, I ultimately go with Chaotic Good for Jason.[/QUOTE]
100% agreed
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Forget that. I was thinking, even when he was hurting innocent others (like Tim in TTs), his ideals were still pursuing a good end in Under the Hood. So yeah, you guys are right, he's Chaotic Good 100%.
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At his core, Jason is a good guy.
Even when he was pretty much braindead and living alone on the streets having nothing, he still shared with others.
From Batman Annual #25:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/94AhOOR.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/inRJAfT.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4735644]Forget that. I was thinking, even when he was hurting innocent others (like Tim in TTs), his ideals were still pursuing a good end in Under the Hood. So yeah, you guys are right, he's Chaotic Good 100%.[/QUOTE]Don't know, some incarnations line BftC or Mother Panic (in the beginning) are clearly going in the evil direction.
Earth-15 Jason was probably Lawfull (or at least Neutral), and the pre crisis version was probably also not really chaotic (at least not more then the rest of the Batfamily).
But the main universe Version imo clearly chaotic good, and imo much easier to place in the dnd alignment spectrum then a lot of the other members.
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[QUOTE=Aahz;4736218]Don't know, some incarnations line BftC or Mother Panic (in the beginning) are clearly going in the evil direction.
Earth-15 Jason was probably Lawfull (or at least Neutral), and the pre crisis version was probably also not really chaotic (at least not more then the rest of the Batfamily).
But the main universe Version imo clearly chaotic good, and imo much easier to place in the dnd alignment spectrum then a lot of the other members.[/QUOTE]
We do not speak of pre-Flashpoint post-UTRH Jason here. Such is the evil of that time.
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A lovely Jason by [URL="https://stariver00.tumblr.com/"]stariver00[/URL] to cheer up your day!
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Wizard Jason. You know what immediately came to mind? "Abra ka-f*** you!"
Something which Jason would most definitely say to the likes of Dumbledore, Umbridge, Voldemort, and just about anyone else that would try to control/manipulate him. Which, come to think of it, is a lot in Harry Potter (hindsight being 20/20)...
