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[QUOTE=Sergard;4165531]Teen Titans Annual #1 preview: [url]https://www.cbr.com/teen-titans-annual-1-preview/[/url]
Jason is in it. And Roy's death is mentioned.[/QUOTE]
Just some observations so far:
[i]First page[/i]
Jason mentions later (third page) Roy's death and that Damian is too late, Bruce already told him. So the scene with Jason in TT #22 takes place before RHatO #27 but after RHatO #26 because Jason already has his new costume.
TT Annual #1 starts with Jason getting out of an old car that suspiciously looks like the old pickup truck from RHatO #30. AND Jason is in Texas (returning from Mexico?). So I don't think it's to far-fetched to assume that the Annual takes place between RH:O #30/#31 and the new story arc starting in #32.
So the big question that immediately comes to mind is: Where the hell is Dog? Obviously the TT creative team knows enough to A) include the truck and B) Jason is wearing the red trucker hat (which he has started wearing in #28 after hearing in #27 that Roy is dead). So they probably know about Dog too, or?
I'm a little surprised that Damian still considers himself an only child. At least Dick should have a brother status, or did he lose Damian's love and respect in Justice League: No Justice, like Bruce did?
And what does "And they all seem to end up strangely fascinated with me." even mean. I haven't read enough about Damian to really know his character but I remember that Damian challenged the other three ex-boy wonders, proclaiming that he would beat them in a discipline that they considered their strong point and then he would take a victory prize from their personal stuff. Or? Seems like the fascination goes the other way around too.
[I]second page[/I]
Okay, now I'm nitpicky but I would have prefered it if the colors in the "Robin vs. Robin" were reversed so that the red "Robin" is above Jason's head.
But I like that there is a glimpse of Jason's and Damian's costume underneath their street clothes.
I wonder what Jason is drinking. Could be alcohol. On the other hand beer bottles are normally brown, or? And I don't like the idea of Jason drinking after RHatO stated that Jason is a lightweight. And Roy is dead. So starting to drink alcohol after a friend with a drinking problem died is a little ... I don't know.
Jason looks very tired. That rather explains why he didn't notice Damian approaching.
It's a little strange to see Damian wearing a red hoodie and sitting next to Red Hood who only wears a red trucker hat. I don't know if there is a meaning behind that. But thinking about it makes my head hurt.
That's not the bar from Wonder Woman #52 where Artemis is searching for somebody (for a "he"). That bar is located in California. I checked. (Just in case anybody wonders like I did. There are A LOT of bar fights in DC comics.)
[I]third page[/I]
Jason mentions for the first time that there is a chance that he won't stay as passive about Roy's death in Sanctuary as it looked like in RHatO #27. Although people already speculated back then that Jason could only be acting so calm in front of Bruce. And he probably was in the denial phase that lasted the whole Underlife arc because Jason was distracted by the case.
There are three darts on the board and Jason takes the two yellow darts, leaving the green one behind. I interpret that as Jason inviting Damian to a game of darts. In this panel he probably still thinks that Damian wants to talk about Roy like Kate did.
[i]fourth page[/i]
I like how the artist subtly delivers the message that Jason is a strong opponent even if he looks exhausted. He perfectly throws the first dart with his left hand, relaxed posture, maybe not even really looking at the board. The second dart is thrown with the right hand. But I think it was already known that he's ambidextrous. At least when it comes to weapons.
(I'm [I]so[/I] close to making a thigh joke.)
[i]fifth page[/i]
In Jason's defense: I'm pretty sure that he didn't expect Damian to attack him.
That dart wound is going to hurt like a b*tch.
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I think a fight between Jason and Damain should basically go like this:
[video=youtube;3c0I8kx0mNo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c0I8kx0mNo[/video]
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I figure Jason’s change in stance is just a result of him being frustrated with the big 3/Bruce’s lack of progress.
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[QUOTE=Sergard;4166254]Just some observations so far:
[i]First page[/i]
Jason mentions later (third page) Roy's death and that Damian is too late, Bruce already told him. So the scene with Jason in TT #22 takes place before RHatO #27 but after RHatO #26 because Jason already has his new costume.
[B]TT Annual #1 starts with Jason getting out of an old car that suspiciously looks like the old pickup truck from RHatO #30. AND Jason is in Texas (returning from Mexico?). So I don't think it's to far-fetched to assume that the Annual takes place between RH:O #30/#31 and the new story arc starting in #32.[/B]
So the big question that immediately comes to mind is: Where the hell is Dog? Obviously the TT creative team knows enough to A) include the truck and B) Jason is wearing the red trucker hat (which he has started wearing in #28 after hearing in #27 that Roy is dead). So they probably know about Dog too, or?
[/QUOTE]
I think this issue may be before #30 too, and the car may be different. Besides, I don't think the writer in TT was aware of the Dog at the time this issue was scripted. It surprises me that he places Jason in Texas, so there may be a certain degree of communication between both writers. But I doubt to the point of mentioning "and then Jason finds a dog in Mexico". There is the possibility, too that Dog's owner is either Bunker or Solitary. I think the important details to note here about Jason is that he's ragged and seems to be worn out, and that, as @Dark_T noted, he seems a bit on edge because Roy's death (Lobdell pointed towards Jason feeling a bit unsatisfied with solving the case in #30, I think. It was a slightly ambiguous, short comment, but I thought he may be feeling a bit of a vacuum because of it).
As for Damian, I don't know. Maybe he's just being a little overdramatic (it runs in the family). Dicks is a bit more like a father than a brother, I would say. He never has shown that he considered neither of the other adopted / ward kids his family, either. And the other part about them being fascinated with him, that may be his ego speaking, thinking that they attack him because he's just that especial (when he's the one that tends to pick on others, as far as I've seen), I don't know.
And yeah, definitely, he wasn't expecting Damian to attack him. He seemed suspicious at some point (like he couldn't figure out what Damian wanted for him and started to run scenarios in his head), but that could be just the art.
Edit: XDDDDDD (after watching @Aahz video). Unfortunately, iirc, canon so far says otherwise, as unrealistic as it may be.
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[URL="https://twitter.com/yoru_ten_/status/1089946401037926400"]@yoru_ten_[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyBEKYeVYAAu00o.jpg[/IMG]
[URL="https://twitter.com/qingmeijun/status/1089900319432003584"]@qingmeijun[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyAZ2qUU8AAlh5B.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4166336]
As for Damian, I don't know. Maybe he's just being a little overdramatic (it runs in the family). Dicks is a bit more like a father than a brother, I would say. He never has shown that he considered neither of the other adopted / ward kids his family, either. And the other part about them being fascinated with him, that may be his ego speaking, thinking that they attack him because he's just that especial (when he's the one that tends to pick on others, as far as I've seen), I don't know.
And yeah, definitely, he wasn't expecting Damian to attack him. He seemed suspicious at some point (like he couldn't figure out what Damian wanted for him and started to run scenarios in his head), but that could be just the art.
Edit: XDDDDDD (after watching @Aahz video). Unfortunately, iirc, canon so far says otherwise, as unrealistic as it may be.[/QUOTE]
Damian consider jason and tim his brothers it the reason he doesn't want to believe jason could betray him like this
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[QUOTE=redmax99;4166469]Damian consider jason and tim his brothers it the reason he doesn't want to believe jason could betray him like this[/QUOTE]
Where? As far as I've read, he never has stated this. Not for those two. I'm curious.
I mean it. I've read Damian partially, mostly when he shows up in other books, or pre-FP (and post in the main batbooks; but not his books).
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In the last Teen Titans issue it’s hevaily implied Damian had some ulterior motive for working with Jason (a positive one). Given the context of the scene, it seems reasonable to assume Jason is more important to him than he’s willing to admit.
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4166506]Where? As far as I've read, he never has stated this. Not for those two. I'm curious.
I mean it. I've read Damian partially, mostly when he shows up in other books, or pre-FP (and post in the main batbooks; but not his books).[/QUOTE]
Outside of Dick and Steph (Pre-Flashpoint only), Damian isn't very close to any of the Robins or the rest of the batfamily. I always thought that his relationship with Jason in the current TT was mostly proffesional because of Jason knowledge of the criminal underworld
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[QUOTE=TheCape;4166523]Outside of Dick and Steph (Pre-Flashpoint only), Damian isn't very close to any of the Robins or the rest of the batfamily. I always thought that his relationship with Jason in the current TT was mostly proffesional because of Jason knowledge of the criminal underworld[/QUOTE]
That was my impression too. But then, the most Damian-centered book I've read is Super Sons, and not the whole book (yet), and some of the Tomasi Batman run. That's why I was asking.
[QUOTE=Arsenal;4166520]In the last Teen Titans issue it’s hevaily implied Damian had some ulterior motive for working with Jason (a positive one). Given the context of the scene, it seems reasonable to assume Jason is more important to him than he’s willing to admit.[/QUOTE]
I've read the last TT issue (curiosity won) and honestly, I didn't feel like he considered Jason more than an ally and another adult that has betrayed him. But then again, I don't know the character that well. He went to Jason because he could understand his motivations and ways, and because he's feeling supportless, is my guess. I don't see him bonding with Jason for a familial bond, but maybe I'm wrong and he says something in the annual this week.
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4166532]That was my impression too. But then, the most Damian-centered book I've read is Super Sons, and not the whole book (yet), and some of the Tomasi Batman run. That's why I was asking.
I read the last TT issue and honestly, I didn't feel like he considered Jason more than an ally and another adult that has betrayed him. But then again, I don't know the character that well.[/QUOTE]
I feel the same as you. From my point of view Damian see Jason, Tim and Barbara as simply competent allies that he respect but he isn't particurlary close too. None of his montly handlers has make an attemp to change that.
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[QUOTE=TheCape;4166523]Outside of Dick and Steph (Pre-Flashpoint only), Damian isn't very close to any of the Robins or the rest of the batfamily. I always thought that his relationship with Jason in the current TT was mostly proffesional because of Jason knowledge of the criminal underworld[/QUOTE]
Haven't read it myself, but Damian and Jason did work together during Batman Inc. With Jason disguised as Wingman. The two worked fairly well together during the time.
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4166506]Where? As far as I've read, he never has stated this. Not for those two. I'm curious.
I mean it. I've read Damian partially, mostly when he shows up in other books, or pre-FP (and post in the main batbooks; but not his books).[/QUOTE]
it not stated out loud that he thinks their brothers or even said, in robin war jason was thinking tim help dick set them up while Tim protesting damian joins in to tell jason he's red hood and he's robin they'll never turn on their own. following tim death in other books he was in you could tell damian was missing him heck the only way he found out he could be Slade's was because he was going through tim stuff looking for keepsakes. damian never going to say out loud he thinks jason or tim are his brothers but theirs a reason why damian is having such a hard time believing jason would turn on him.
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[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4166614]Haven't read it myself, but Damian and Jason did work together during Batman Inc. With Jason disguised as Wingman. The two worked fairly well together during the time.[/QUOTE]
Working together doesn't equal a friendship, again, they are allies and they respect eacth other as figthers/ninja/warriors/vigilantes. That doesn't mean that they are close.
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[QUOTE=redmax99;4166630]it not stated out loud that he thinks their brothers or even said, in robin war jason was thinking tim help dick set them up while Tim protesting damian joins in to tell jason he's red hood and he's robin they'll never turn on their own. following tim death in other books he was in you could tell damian was missing him heck the only way he found out he could be Slade's was because he was going through tim stuff looking for keepsakes. damian never going to say out loud he thinks jason or tim are his brothers but theirs a reason why damian is having such a hard time believing jason would turn on him.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't seem to me like he's having a hard time believing the betrayal, though. He doesn't want to, but he believes it was Jason. It kind of was Alfred's point in the last issue.
And I get that he would not admit that out loud, but for his inner boxes, to me, it's hard to believe that he would not state it. But, eh, it's Damian, so...
On the other hand, appreciating or missing someone doesn't mean thinking of them as family. He does appreciate Tim, you can see that in the arc with future Tim more recently: he thinks highly of Tim. But I don't see him thinking about him as a brother. Like with Jason, I think it's more that he sees them as allies, competent allies, relatively trustworthy allies, than friends or family.
Which is why I was asking where he did consider them as his brothers. Because that's the most clear you can go for. With Jason, who is also a bit tsundere towards the family, at least you can see that sometimes, he slips his tongue in and out loud and almost calls or plain calls Dick his brother. He was pretty clear about Tim in the New 52 run, too. But with Damian admitting that, it all relies in how the reader understands the scene and tone. You can even see him straight implying that the only real family in the batcave was him in Detective Comics, in the meeting they had for Batwoman (but then, there it wasn't his current main writers, so it's open to discussion how in character that is).
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For better or for worse, I imagine how Jason & Damian see each other will be made much clearer on Wednesday.
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[QUOTE=Arsenal;4166658]For better or for worse, I imagine how Jason & Damian see each other will be made much clearer on Wednesday.[/QUOTE]
Yep, most probably. I'm honestly curious. I feel like this could be a bit of an agreement between writers, and probably something editorial supports.
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Since Glass already referenced the family portrait, I wonder if he'll mention the Jason/Damian fight in Tec' as well.
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[QUOTE=G-Potion;4166716]Since Glass already referenced the family portrait, I wonder if he'll mention the Jason/Damian fight in Tec' as well.[/QUOTE]
I feel like that’s all but guaranteed to come up, especially after what Alfred told Damian that Jason.
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Honestly after seeing the preview, I couldn't stop thinking about that one CollegeHumor comic strip that someone painted over with Jason and Damian. XD
[img]https://i.imgur.com/rzfvVx8.jpg[/img]
[SIZE=1]I've taken the liberty of censoring the curse, just in case that goes against policy here.[/SIZE]
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[QUOTE=Arsenal;4166658]For better or for worse, I imagine how Jason & Damian see each other will be made much clearer on Wednesday.[/QUOTE]
I hope it's at least somewhat for the better or at least to a point where bridges aren't completely burned. I like Jason interacting with other members of the bat family that isn't Bats himself.
[QUOTE=RedBird;4166916]Honestly after seeing the preview, I couldn't stop thinking about that one CollegeHumor comic strip that someone painted over with Jason and Damian. XD
[img]https://i.imgur.com/rzfvVx8.jpg[/img]
[SIZE=1]I've taken the liberty of censoring the curse, just in case that goes against policy here.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
This got a good laugh outta me. xD
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[QUOTE=RedBird;4166916]Honestly after seeing the preview, I couldn't stop thinking about that one CollegeHumor comic strip that someone painted over with Jason and Damian. XD
[img]https://i.imgur.com/rzfvVx8.jpg[/img]
[SIZE=1]I've taken the liberty of censoring the curse, just in case that goes against policy here.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
I can see why.
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Besides Damian being ... Damian, one should also consider that
- he still could be somehow influenced by Djinn's magic from TT #21.
- he already feels betrayed by/lost his faith in the whole Justice league and Co. At this point he's probably more prone to think the worst of other people.
- his whole team nearly died in that explosion in TT #23/#24.
- he showed some remorse at the end of TT #25.
- Red Arrow is the team mate Damian trusts the most, and she supported the accusation that Jason betrayed them. In fact, she was ice cold about that matter and didn't like Jason's involvement from the start.
But what I take offense at is Damian believing that Jason could ever participate in killing [U]kids[/U]. Further, by killing them in an [U]explosion[/U] - with the possibility that they could be [U]buried alive[/U].
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[QUOTE=Sergard;4167227]Besides Damian being ... Damian, one should also consider that
- he still could be somehow influenced by Djinn's magic from TT #21.
- he already feels betrayed by/lost his faith in the whole Justice league and Co. At this point he's probably more prone to think the worst of other people.
- his whole team nearly died in that explosion in TT #23/#24.
- he showed some remorse at the end of TT #25.
- Red Arrow is the team mate Damian trusts the most, and she supported the accusation that Jason betrayed them. In fact, she was ice cold about that matter and didn't like Jason's involvement from the start.
But what I take offense at is Damian believing that Jason could ever participate in killing [U]kids[/U]. Further, by killing them in an [U]explosion[/U] - with the possibility that they could be [U]buried alive[/U].[/QUOTE]
Maybe the writer wasn't aware of what such accusation implies.
The thing about Djinn... didn't the solicit for next month issue of TT pointed towards some shocking revelation? I remember reading somthing like that, and it could be that it's playing a role in Damian's behaviour. I dunno, it could be that, @Sergard.
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4167300]Maybe the writer wasn't aware of what such accusation implies.
The thing about Djinn... didn't the solicit for next month issue of TT pointed towards some shocking revelation? I remember reading something like that, and it could be that it's playing a role in Damian's behaviour. I dunno, it could be that, @Sergard.[/QUOTE]
That's the solicitation text for TT #27:
[Quote]Every Teen Titan has a secret—and they all come spilling out here! As Djinn helps Robin recover from his injuries after a brutal showdown with Red Hood, she tells him all about her dark past, revealing some unsettling truths about herself. Meanwhile, Red Arrow helps Crush find a new sense of purpose, and Roundhouse reveals the tragic story of how he got his powers![/Quote]
Source: [URL="https://www.dccomics.com/comics/teen-titans-2016/teen-titans-27"]DC[/URL]
So yes, maybe Djinn's powers influenced Damian's behaviour. I just hope that Djinn isn't evil. I like her character a lot.
But I'm surprised that Damian has "injuries". Looking at the preview for the annual it feels more like Damian will only have some scrapes at the end.
I had such a nice theory about the dart wound but that theory was quickly refuted.
In Detective Comics #968 Future Tim states that Jason has some untreated injury in his hip joint that was caused before his resurrection. And I call that a big BS because the Lazarus pit would have healed that damage. So back then, my theory was that Future Jason had lied to Tim about that injury and that in truth it had been caused much later.
And now we have Damian stabbing Jason with a dart in the hip. But sadly it's the wrong side.
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[QUOTE=Sergard;4167227]Besides Damian being ... Damian, one should also consider that
- he still could be somehow influenced by Djinn's magic from TT #21.
- he already feels betrayed by/lost his faith in the whole Justice league and Co. At this point he's probably more prone to think the worst of other people.
- his whole team nearly died in that explosion in TT #23/#24.
- he showed some remorse at the end of TT #25.
- Red Arrow is the team mate Damian trusts the most, and she supported the accusation that Jason betrayed them. In fact, she was ice cold about that matter and didn't like Jason's involvement from the start.
But what I take offense at is Damian believing that Jason could ever participate in killing [U]kids[/U]. Further, by killing them in an [U]explosion[/U] - with the possibility that they could be [U]buried alive[/U].[/QUOTE]
Well Jason did shoot 10 year old Damian intending to kill him which is why Damian now has a replacement spine. Jason also tried to explode teenage Tim so ....... Though Jason has also saved Damian multiple times. I guess it's hard to forget the one time someone paralysed you.
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4166532]That was my impression too. But then, the most Damian-centered book I've read is Super Sons, and not the whole book (yet), and some of the Tomasi Batman run. That's why I was asking.
I've read the last TT issue (curiosity won) and honestly, I didn't feel like he considered Jason more than an ally and another adult that has betrayed him. But then again, I don't know the character that well. He went to Jason because he could understand his motivations and ways, and because he's feeling supportless, is my guess. I don't see him bonding with Jason for a familial bond, but maybe I'm wrong and he says something in the annual this week.[/QUOTE]
Jason has always reached out to Damian and always an ally. I believe that Damian does view him as a brother or at least more than an mere ally. Jason has been there for him in a capacity that makes him more than an ally. Tim is an ally Jason is someone who has been there when he didn't have to
The thing is with writers never exploring their relationships we never get a proper dynamic.
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That's too cute:
[URL="https://twitter.com/kani_4san/status/1090074528250617858"]@kani_4san[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyC5ALgVYAAkJ3Q.jpg[/IMG]
Also [URL="https://twitter.com/dori_yagi/status/1089903911111016448"]@kani_4san[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyAd1ECUwAEuova.jpg[/IMG]
[URL="https://twitter.com/circus_0625/status/1089188869080113152"]@circus_0625[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx2SwEiUcAAeHgX.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Fergus;4167499]Well Jason did shoot 10 year old Damian intending to kill him which is why Damian now has a replacement spine. [/QUOTE]I don't think that these stories are still canon, and I'm pretty sure that Flamingo was the one who fired the shot that destroyed Damian's spine.
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[QUOTE=Aahz;4167539]I don't think that these stories are still canon, and I'm pretty sure that Flamingo was the one who fired the shot that destroyed Damian's spine.[/QUOTE]
They are canon. Nightwing must die remember.
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[QUOTE=Fergus;4167560]They are canon. Nightwing must die remember.[/QUOTE]Dick as Batman with Damian as Robin is canon in broad strokes, but Jasons part in that story and in BftC has not really been referenced post flashpoint.
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Hopefully Glass will help clear up which Jason & Damian interactions are canon and which aren’t.
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[QUOTE=Arsenal;4167621]Hopefully Glass will help clear up which Jason & Damian interactions are canon and which aren’t.[/QUOTE]
Hope so. I'm not happy that we only get the fighting and not the working together. All we had was that one page. It feels like such a wasted opportunity.
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[QUOTE=dietrich;4167632]Hope so. I'm not happy that we only get the fighting and not the working together. All we had was that one page. It feels like such a wasted opportunity.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I’m hoping we’ll atleast get some flashbacks to help flesh it out some.
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[URL="https://jjmk-jjmk.tumblr.com/post/182399833862/nightwing-redhood-fan-art"]New fanart[/URL] by JJMK. It's a little slash-y but Jason looks too good in his new outfit to not share it.
[IMG]https://66.media.tumblr.com/430e795e0cfcdb8760d4a8791fabd988/tumblr_pm3os9invH1wvpvsso1_1280.jpg[/IMG]
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[URL="https://twitter.com/hian0508/status/1088068437786521600"]@hian0508[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxmYeOqVAAAm80G.jpg[/IMG]
[URL="https://twitter.com/hh_dingdong/status/1089155518638088192"]@hh_dingdong[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx10_MXVYAEFa-M.jpg[/IMG]
Also [URL="https://twitter.com/hh_dingdong/status/1087960518088904704"]@hh_dingdong[/URL]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxk2UcJWsAE113x.jpg[/IMG]
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All of them have awesome hair. :p
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[URL="https://twitter.com/TimeFloW19/status/1084013324059070465"]@TimeFloW19[/URL]
Jason & Artemis
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwswXbIUYAAnURY.jpg[/IMG]
Jason & Conner
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwswXbMU0AAKa_L.jpg[/IMG]
(There is also a fanart of Jon, Damian and Goliath following the link at the beginning of the post)
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DC has changed the cover of RH:O #31. [URL="https://www.dccomics.com/comics/red-hood-and-the-outlaws-2016/red-hood-outlaw-31"]Here's[/URL] the new one:
[IMG]https://www.previewsworld.com/SiteImage/CatalogImage/STL109400?type=1.jpg[/IMG]
For comparison, here's the old one:
[IMG]https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/DC-PREVIEWS-8-DECEMBER-final-46_5bf2f14ceb2c95.19932088-1-768x1182.jpg[/IMG]
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Huh, this is a total different design. The old cover looks good, but I guess the new one is more exciting because you get to see Red Hood and Wingman teaming up. Also I dig the text.
