I wonder if Marvel might bring in Namor as part of a revamped Illuminati.
If they try to adapt Secret Wars or Time Runs Out, I could see the Illuminati being:
Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Ikaris, Namor, Reed Richards, and Emma Frost.
Printable View
I wonder if Marvel might bring in Namor as part of a revamped Illuminati.
If they try to adapt Secret Wars or Time Runs Out, I could see the Illuminati being:
Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Ikaris, Namor, Reed Richards, and Emma Frost.
[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;4260358]I wonder if Marvel might bring in Namor as part of a revamped Illuminati.
If they try to adapt Secret Wars or Time Runs Out, I could see the Illuminati being:
Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Ikaris, Namor, Reed Richards, and Emma Frost.[/QUOTE]
That's an interesting thought. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see Feige replace the Inhumans with the Eternals. ;)
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4260338]The real issue with BP and Namor being a part of it is that it makes zero sense for the Atlanteans and Wakandians to fight, they both have isolated themselves because of the world, they both are technologically advanced, both have great culture and both of their leaders are noble. They should be great allies and the only reason why Namor attacked Wakanda was because he was possessed with the phoenix.
I really would rather Namor be able to stand on his own than continue to be defined by Black Panther and as Black Panther's enemy as he has been since AVX and this extends beyond the comics, mainstream fans know Namor more for the flooding of Wakanda and having the hots for Susan Storm than anything else, if they don't know that then they just call him a rip off Aquaman. I see this alot in the namor search in twitter and hardly anything else. So I'm not against the director, I think he did an amazing job and I loved BP, it was a great movie. I'm only against Namor being anywhere near BP because I know it will only fuel more Marvel creators to continue this 'feud' between them for another decade because creators become inspired by the movie or Marvel wants more comics to match up with the movie. I would rather each character have their own villains than to be constantly pitted against one another.
Edit: Not to mention how the current Marvel cartoons continue to have Atlanteans with Attuma taking Namor's place as an adversary for T'challa as if the character was so replaceable they just could substitute Attuma for Namor and continue the Atlantean/Wakanda thing.[/QUOTE]
Agreed 100%
The whole Namor vs BP thing was tiring in the comics and i have no interest in seeing that in the movies. They're better off having mutual respect for each other and coming together against a common threat.
Moreso, Namor and Atlantis is a spectacle best revealed in an Avengers movie or a Fantastic Four film (or just his own film) where the scenery (and cgi budget) can focus on giving audiences the best possible Atlantis. As big budgeted as BP was, the cgi still needed a few extra 5 dollar bills to sharpen and that was with only one futuristic paradise being accounted for.
If Namor appears in DS 2, I wonder if it would be like BP in Civil War where you don't see their homeland (again, save that cgi budget) but it's just a character piece to get audiences warmed up to the new guy and then tease the reveal of Atlantis to be shown in a future event film or his own solo
Namor art by Ke Sneller that I really love a lot and wanted to share here.[URL="https://www.artstation.com/artwork/LdQxv"] Link[/URL] If only we could get a series filled with art like this, I would be so happy. :)
[img]https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/008/495/214/large/ke-sneller-namor-for-james-low-res.jpg?1513134444[/img]
How would you guys update Namor's Rogues Gallery? Who would you most like to see come back and how?
[QUOTE=Doombot;4260924]How would you guys update Namor's Rogues Gallery? Who would you most like to see come back and how?[/QUOTE]
Ranker did a Namor's Rogue gallery showcase/vote [URL="https://www.ranker.com/list/greatest-foes-of-namor-the-sub-mariner/ranker-comics"]here[/URL]
I agree with their top three, Attuma, Tiger Shark, and Llyra, making a big splashy comeback. I would have Attuma as an infrequent foe, and give Tiger Shark more presence and to seem more menacing, his new Shark human look in Invaders is looking better than his human in a shark costume look.
The biggest ongoing villain I would have back just trying to ruin things is Llyra, I feel that she out of most of Namor's enemies has hurt him personally the most, with poisoning Namora, killing Dorma, and having a hand in killing his father, R*ping Namor when she pretended to be Susan, then lying about her having his son, basically setting Atlantis on the course for destruction, Llyra is a shapeshifter and insane about power and hurt by Namor rejecting her so she would have the most drive to want to try and destroy Namor. She is off in limbo now and if she comes back she could add intrigue and deception rather than straight on fights, like with Tiger Shark and Attuma. It would be easy to bring her back, just have her shapeshifted as one of Namor's allies in court and then reveal her to be behind things.
Having Krang back would be good, I liked his and Namor's dynamic in The First Mutant, where he thinks he will wait for the best opportunity to overthrow Namor for the throne. New villains would be great! but those four are the ones who could make an easy comeback.
Ranker lists Doctor Doom as a foe but I've always seen Namor and Doom more as frienemies so I would love to have that in his comics too. (btw I love your username and icon!).
Mainly just having things set in Atlantis and opening up more about the court is good, but we need to have people on Namor's side like Vashti. Also Andromeda is Attuma's daughter but she turned her back on her father to serve Atlantis and Namor. So bringing her and Attuma in for some father daughter fight would add a good second storyline.
I think they should do a Namor run that relies heavily on Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
Right now Atlantis is heavily in disarray due the last few years of event storytelling, so having a warring states storyline with various pretenders and a reunification saga would be a great way to get mileage out of the character and build up his rogues.
[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;4261591]I think they should do a Namor run that relies heavily on Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
Right now Atlantis is heavily in disarray due the last few years of event storytelling, so having a warring states storyline with various pretenders and a reunification saga would be a great way to get mileage out of the character and build up his rogues.[/QUOTE]
I agree 1000%. I've long wanted a Game of Thrones type, looong storyline, where the underwater kingdoms / cities were explored and brought together. Can you imagine something like The Battle of Red Cliffs sprawling across the comic page? When I saw Mukesh Singh's 18 DAYS, I thought, YES. We need those sort of battle scenes in a Namor book.
[img]https://pro2-bar-s3-cdn-cf6.myportfolio.com/bb02877aa778bc578d92ca4159e6a593/ac3b382322cd9181c8c7ae92_rw_1920.jpg?h=061b2a35cfc69bd4c5a880089c991fd4[/img]
[img]http://www.licensingcorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/graphicindia1.jpg[/img]
But not neglect the politics and dance of alliances. Maybe even forge some alliances with a few surface world countries OTHER than the US. If Atlantis and China allied, that would keep the US, and Ka-Zar, from just waltzing in whenever they wanted to destroy it. Namor even has a foothold in the Middle East, with Mazikhandar.
You could call it "Saga of the Submariner". Give it a 12-18 issue run with a top writing and art team. The title has sort of a gravitas to it and seems built for a prestige style perennial bookstore seller.
That way you also can get kind of a soft reset of the character and use aspects existing canon while telling a largely original and relatively self contained story.
Then after "Saga" ends you can transition to a regular monthly.
Also, I've never heard of 18 Days but that looks amazing.
Get that person to draw it! Or my other choice Dustin Weaver.
[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;4261688]You could call it "Saga of the Submariner". Give it a 12-18 issue run with a top writing and art team. The title has sort of a gravitas to it and seems built for a prestige style perennial bookstore seller.
That way you also can get kind of a soft reset of the character and use aspects existing canon while telling a largely original and relatively self contained story.
Then after "Saga" ends you can transition to a regular monthly.[/QUOTE]
GMTA! This is alot like what they did for John Byrne's Namor series. There was 12 issue autobiography of Namor, yes, he wrote / narrated it, that recapped his entire life up to that point. It was actually called The Saga of the Sub-Mariner, and when it ended, we got the John Byrne series.
I think your idea would be even better, because it would be an epic original story that could world build and reset the character and the setting. If Marvel would give it some extra time for some consistent, amazing art, it would be awesome. I don't read much Aquaman, but the two stories I did read, I remember being blown away by the art. One was Craig Hamilton's 4 issue miniseries, and the other, wasn't really Aquaman, but it was a 7 or 8 issue history of his Atlantis, called The Atlantis Chronicles by Peter David with gorgeous art by Esteban Marato. I've always something similar for Namor and Marvel's Atlantis. Even though Marvel did it first, with the Tales of Atlantis backups in Subby's Silver / Bronze Age book, it wasn't nearly in depth or beautiful as the DC series.
[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;4261694]Also, I've never heard of 18 Days but that looks amazing.
Get that person to draw it! Or my other choice Dustin Weaver.[/QUOTE]
Someone on this thread turned me on to it. There's a comic with a different artist, but these pics are from an art book that Mukesh Singh did with Grant Morrison. It's "a re-imagining of the great eastern myth, Mahabharata, and follows the course of the climactic war that concludes the age of the gods and begins the age of man." I'm not sure what his interiors would like, but Mukesh Singh has actually drawn Namor before. He did the first of Robinson's All New Invaders covers.
[img]https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/000/429/581/large/mukesh-singh-invdrs-03-cvr-final.jpg?1422097978[/img]
[img]https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/000/429/580/large/mukesh-singh-invaders-1-cvr-wide.jpg?1422097935[/img]
[img]https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/000/429/583/large/mukesh-singh-ani-cvr-05-final.jpg?1422098078[/img]
Wow, that guy's art is beautiful. I love that last Namor design and the 18 DAYS art. Absolutely gorgeous stuff. What would it take to get more guys like this to draw for Marvel?
Also, I just wanted to say, I read this thread a lot. You guys have lots of interesting talks here and I'm learning a lot of stuff about Namor. One of my favourite comic book characters is Aquaman (alongside Black Panther being #1) but I'm really interested in Namor as well. I don't know where exactly to start reading from but I read an Invaders issue (I've never read any Namor books). I'm quite interested in the character and it's nice to read what his fans to say, including the complaints about how his character has been handled.
I should also add, as a BP fan and knowing that including Namor in a BP sequel would most likely mean the great feats would go to T'Challa, I am totally against having Namor in it (it's just a rumour for now so I doubt it'll actually happen). I don't want a Wakanda vs Atlantis storyline. That to me just sounds like abandoning everything I thought made the first film special for some generic sci-fi/fantasy war film, which doesn't really appeal to me and doesn't like Coogler's thing also (sounds very studio mandated if you ask me and the last thing Marvel Studios wants to do is to tell Coogler what kind of movie he should make).
From the much I've read about Namor here, he would be better served in a Fantastic Four movie or Avengers movie as a character introduced, similar to BP and Spider-Man in Civil War. Or even better, his own solo film. While DC and Aquaman comparisons would be inevitable, there are ways to set him apart from Aquaman. Have a more serious toned movie. Make Marvel's Atlantis look darker and more mysterious, less colourful and high fantasy, and with an Asian/Middle Eastern meets steampunk vibe and aesthetic. Give Namor a bit more of a morally grey character but he shouldn't be a villain. Give him a confidence and edge to his character, but let the sense that he's just trying to do the right thing be there.
BP vs Namor would just be a wasted opportunity, unless it can possibly end with them earning each other's respect and aligning against a common foe. But I just think it's unnecessary. Both character deserve better than that, and including Namor just feels like adding too much to a wonderfully set up sequel and a lot more to explore regarding what BP has done and can do for the MCU.
[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;4262302]Wow, that guy's art is beautiful. I love that last Namor design and the 18 DAYS art. Absolutely gorgeous stuff. What would it take to get more guys like this to draw for Marvel?
Also, I just wanted to say, I read this thread a lot. You guys have lots of interesting talks here and I'm learning a lot of stuff about Namor. One of my favourite comic book characters is Aquaman (alongside Black Panther being #1) but I'm really interested in Namor as well. I don't know where exactly to start reading from but I read an Invaders issue (I've never read any Namor books). I'm quite interested in the character and it's nice to read what his fans to say, including the complaints about how his character has been handled.
I should also add, as a BP fan and knowing that including Namor in a BP sequel would most likely mean the great feats would go to T'Challa, I am totally against having Namor in it (it's just a rumour for now so I doubt it'll actually happen). I don't want a Wakanda vs Atlantis storyline. That to me just sounds like abandoning everything I thought made the first film special for some generic sci-fi/fantasy war film, which doesn't really appeal to me and doesn't like Coogler's thing also (sounds very studio mandated if you ask me and the last thing Marvel Studios wants to do is to tell Coogler what kind of movie he should make).
From the much I've read about Namor here, he would be better served in a Fantastic Four movie or Avengers movie as a character introduced, similar to BP and Spider-Man in Civil War. Or even better, his own solo film. While DC and Aquaman comparisons would be inevitable, there are ways to set him apart from Aquaman. Have a more serious toned movie. Make Marvel's Atlantis look darker and more mysterious, less colourful and high fantasy, and with an Asian/Middle Eastern meets steampunk vibe and aesthetic. Give Namor a bit more of a morally grey character but he shouldn't be a villain. Give him a confidence and edge to his character, but let the sense that he's just trying to do the right thing be there.
BP vs Namor would just be a wasted opportunity, unless it can possibly end with them earning each other's respect and aligning against a common foe. But I just think it's unnecessary. Both character deserve better than that, and including Namor just feels like adding too much to a wonderfully set up sequel and a lot more to explore regarding what BP has done and can do for the MCU.[/QUOTE]
I wish they would just reset their relationship. I think BP and Namor share a lot of traits, and could be great allies. I also wish they would retcon the Invaders so that they had a "Secret" Invaders that featured T'challa's grandfather.
They could have run missions in Northern Africa along with John Aman, but due to Wakanda's isolationist stance Azzuri had to adopt a separate secret identity.
Namor could have known and respected T'challa's grandfather, but doesn't think T'challa is living up to his potential. I think that would be a more interesting dynamic.
[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;4262371]I wish they would just reset their relationship. I think BP and Namor share a lot of traits, and could be great allies. I also wish they would retcon the Invaders so that they had a "Secret" Invaders that featured T'challa's grandfather.
They could have run missions in Northern Africa along with John Aman, but due to Wakanda's isolationist stance Azzuri had to adopt a separate secret identity.
Namor could have known and respected T'challa's grandfather, but doesn't think T'challa is living up to his potential. I think that would be a more interesting dynamic.[/QUOTE]
YES. Have you read Black Panther (2005) #21 Aqua-Boogie?! In that comic Namor welcomes Tchalla and Ororo to Atlantis and they speak, Namor tells them of the time the Invaders were near Wakanda, and how he had meet T'challa's grandfather, he also warns T'challa about Doom. A good comic that I rec if you haven't checked it out yet.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]80058[/ATTACH]
[QUOTE=Reviresco;4261671]I agree 1000%. I've long wanted a Game of Thrones type, looong storyline, where the underwater kingdoms / cities were explored and brought together. Can you imagine something like The Battle of Red Cliffs sprawling across the comic page? When I saw Mukesh Singh's 18 DAYS, I thought, YES. We need those sort of battle scenes in a Namor book.
But not neglect the politics and dance of alliances. Maybe even forge some alliances with a few surface world countries OTHER than the US. If Atlantis and China allied, that would keep the US, and Ka-Zar, from just waltzing in whenever they wanted to destroy it. Namor even has a foothold in the Middle East, with Mazikhandar.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;4261688]You could call it "Saga of the Submariner". Give it a 12-18 issue run with a top writing and art team. The title has sort of a gravitas to it and seems built for a prestige style perennial bookstore seller.
That way you also can get kind of a soft reset of the character and use aspects existing canon while telling a largely original and relatively self contained story.
Then after "Saga" ends you can transition to a regular monthly.[/QUOTE]
I'm loving these ideas and Namor would SO benefit from having beautiful art and whole series especially one that gives us the world building we sadly lack. Amazing ideas everyone!!!
[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;4262302]Wow, that guy's art is beautiful. I love that last Namor design and the 18 DAYS art. Absolutely gorgeous stuff. What would it take to get more guys like this to draw for Marvel?
Also, I just wanted to say, I read this thread a lot. You guys have lots of interesting talks here and I'm learning a lot of stuff about Namor. One of my favourite comic book characters is Aquaman (alongside Black Panther being #1) but I'm really interested in Namor as well. I don't know where exactly to start reading from but I read an Invaders issue (I've never read any Namor books). I'm quite interested in the character and it's nice to read what his fans to say, including the complaints about how his character has been handled.
I should also add, as a BP fan and knowing that including Namor in a BP sequel would most likely mean the great feats would go to T'Challa, I am totally against having Namor in it (it's just a rumour for now so I doubt it'll actually happen). I don't want a Wakanda vs Atlantis storyline. That to me just sounds like abandoning everything I thought made the first film special for some generic sci-fi/fantasy war film, which doesn't really appeal to me and doesn't like Coogler's thing also (sounds very studio mandated if you ask me and the last thing Marvel Studios wants to do is to tell Coogler what kind of movie he should make).
From the much I've read about Namor here, he would be better served in a Fantastic Four movie or Avengers movie as a character introduced, similar to BP and Spider-Man in Civil War. Or even better, his own solo film. While DC and Aquaman comparisons would be inevitable, there are ways to set him apart from Aquaman. Have a more serious toned movie. Make Marvel's Atlantis look darker and more mysterious, less colourful and high fantasy, and with an Asian/Middle Eastern meets steampunk vibe and aesthetic. Give Namor a bit more of a morally grey character but he shouldn't be a villain. Give him a confidence and edge to his character, but let the sense that he's just trying to do the right thing be there.
BP vs Namor would just be a wasted opportunity, unless it can possibly end with them earning each other's respect and aligning against a common foe. But I just think it's unnecessary. Both character deserve better than that, and including Namor just feels like adding too much to a wonderfully set up sequel and a lot more to explore regarding what BP has done and can do for the MCU.[/QUOTE]
Totally agreed on the BP thing, and really having them fight wastes so much opportunity! Welcome to the thread and I have read Aquaman a bit in the past, I loved Oceanmaster's new 52 story line, especially with him meeting that surface woman Erin but sadly they ruined that with the 2018 Mera comic. :( I agree that visually Namor still has a lot to offer and they should totally go with a darker but still beautiful tone, the great thing about the ocean is we can have both lighter and darker elements when used properly, its not all dolphins and whales, there are a lot of deep creatures that could be shown.
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4262475][ATTACH=CONFIG]80058[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
I forgot to mention this comic actually in my initial post. Aside from Hickman's New Avengers Illuminati this is my other exposure to Namor. I really liked him here. The confidence and slight arrogance was all there but there was an endearing quality to it that made him so likable here, especially how he talks. Hickman's Namor is sometimes referred to as "Asshole Namor" and while I didn't have a problem with his portrayal, I think something more in line with Hudlin's take would be great.
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4262497]Totally agreed on the BP thing, and really having them fight wastes so much opportunity! Welcome to the thread and I have read Aquaman a bit in the past, I loved Oceanmaster's new 52 story line, especially with him meeting that surface woman Erin but sadly they ruined that with the 2018 Mera comic. :( I agree that visually Namor still has a lot to offer and they should totally go with a darker but still beautiful tone, the great thing about the ocean is we can have both lighter and darker elements when used properly, its not all dolphins and whales, there are a lot of deep creatures that could be shown.[/QUOTE]
Of course Atlantis should it ever be in the MCU should be beautiful like Wakanda, Asgard and DCEU Atlantis, but I certainly want that different approach. Wan chose this neon light-filled location with marine life inspired architecture which worked because the movie took a lot of inspiration from Geoff Johns New 52 run. I think MCU Atlantis should take the opposite direction. Basing the architectural language on Asian/Middle Eastern aesthetics and structures could give it a unique look, combining that with some steampunk and seapunk imagery and technology. Make it feel a bit more ancient, like it's aged and has actually been lived in and not just a perfectly rendered CGI environment. There should still be advanced technology of course, but it shouldn't fit the typical idea of what advanced technology is like. It should feel a bit old, if that makes sense. I checked out more of the guy's art talked about on the previous page and surprisingly he captures quite what I'm looking for.
Also are there any Namor stories and books you could recommend to get into the character? I'll have to note it down because I can't check them out immediately. Thanks for the welcome.
[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;4262646]I forgot to mention this comic actually in my initial post. Aside from Hickman's New Avengers Illuminati this is my other exposure to Namor. I really liked him here. The confidence and slight arrogance was all there but there was an endearing quality to it that made him so likable here, especially how he talks. Hickman's Namor is sometimes referred to as "Asshole Namor" and while I didn't have a problem with his portrayal, I think something more in line with Hudlin's take would be great.
Of course Atlantis should it ever be in the MCU should be beautiful like Wakanda, Asgard and DCEU Atlantis, but I certainly want that different approach. Wan chose this neon light-filled location with marine life inspired architecture which worked because the movie took a lot of inspiration from Geoff Johns New 52 run. I think MCU Atlantis should take the opposite direction. Basing the architectural language on Asian/Middle Eastern aesthetics and structures could give it a unique look, combining that with some steampunk and seapunk imagery and technology. Make it feel a bit more ancient, like it's aged and has actually been lived in and not just a perfectly rendered CGI environment. There should still be advanced technology of course, but it shouldn't fit the typical idea of what advanced technology is like. It should feel a bit old, if that makes sense.
Also are there any Namor stories and books you could recommend to get into the character? I'll have to note it down because I can't check them out immediately. Thanks for the welcome.[/QUOTE]
I'm overexcited at the idea of steampunk and seapunk!!!I LOVE those so much! Especially the nautical steampunk creations, it would look so amazing!!! I agree that Namor needs a unique look and hope someday to see this. I do have some comic recs that could show you more of Namor without the impending gloom and Doom of Hickman's run. I don't have anything really against Hickman Namor but that definitely isn't the shakesperan silver age Namor, and whats more the situation the characters were in pushed everyone to their limits so I understand how the characters would be under pressure. I only real issue I have is Namor lying and sending someone else to get revenge for his people, I feel he would have done that himself and not bowed to Proxmia Midnight. The tension between T'challa and Namor was excellently written, however I wouldn't want that for every future comic so it's why I tend to say 'Don't put Namor in more Black Panther stuff'.
[B]Sub-Mariner Comic Recs:
[/B]
- Namor the First Mutant (2010) / Sub-Mariner (2007)
This comic series is really a good way to get to see the Namor in his own environment as a ruler of his people. Also is one of the more modern recent series that explores the character. It's the best if you want a more modern take on Namor. The 2007 comic deals with what happened after the 1st Civil War in the comics as Namor tries to reveal who has been killing surface dwellers in the name of Atlantis while facing opposition on all sides.
- Sub-Mariner Comics 70th Anniversary Special (2009)
Contains three stories, including the first sub-mariner comic, they really are the best, especially the first story.
- Fear Itself: The Deep (2011)
Namor loses his confidence. It's when Attuma gets a hammer and Namor teams up with Doctor Strange. (this was the one that was being talked about on twitter for DS2)
[B]If you want Namor comics in a kind of order this I rec you read these since it starts with Namor being reintroduced in comics for the first time in Silver Age:
[/B]
-Fantastic Four (#4 and 6) (1961) / Uncanny X-Men (#6) (1963) / Daredevil (#7) (1964) / Avengers (1963) #3-4
Classic Silver Age Namor: Namor regains his memories in FF #4 and in #6 teams up with Doctor Doom. In X-men he teams up with Magneto and in Daredevil he tries to sue the human race. Avengers include battles, him teaming up with the Hulk, and freeing Captain America from the ice.
-Tales to Astonish (Starting at #70)
Silver Age Namor! More Atlantis, Underwater Quests, and dealing with being a ruler of Atlantis.
-The Sub-Mariner (1968)
The Silver Age Sub-Mariner Comic, this is standard for every fan to read, and also for the first time in years after not having written Namor since the Golden Age, Bill Everett returns in the 50th issue.
-Prince Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1984)
Namor travels to the surface world to attempt to make peace with the UN. (short series)
[B]-Saga of the Sub-Mariner (1988)
You want a condensed history of Namor and everything that happened to him? This is what you should read, this comic series summarizes everything up until that point in the comics.[/B]
-Namor the Sub-Mariner (1990)
This is the 90’s Namor comic full of bulging muscles, tiny speedos, ponytails, and other things that made the 90’s well the 90’s. Namor's last long running series.
More comic recs:
-Sub-Mariner the Depths
I can’t not rec this comic, I love how creepy and scary they made Namor here and this story is told by a man who doesn’t believe in Atlantis. However be warned that there is very little Namor in this comic since he is more of a looming presence. This has a very dark setting.
-Defenders (2001); Defenders (2005); Fear Itself: The Deep (2011); Defenders (2012)
These comics mainly revolve around the Defenders, and is the more recent times that the Defenders got together other than the first main series: The Defenders (1972)
-What if? Sub-Mariner: What if the Sub-Mariner grew up on land?
True this is an AU comic where Namor grows up on land but it proves that no matter what his character is the same and it's written by Greg Pak!
-Marvel Comics Presents (2019) #1
A short comic written by Greg Pak (Who imo is the best writer for Namor) and this basically retcons why Namor had Amnesia form after the war until he was found by Johnny Storm.
-New Warriors (1990) #44
Namor comforts and supports Namorita, this comic gives me feels.
-Marvel Comics Presents (2007) #7
"Paying Respects": Namor grieves over the death of Namorita.
Marvel Comics Presents (1988) #33
The Sub-Mariner “Dying in Paradise”: This comic is silent, with no speaking words but it's absolutely one of my favorite Namor comics.
[B]Namor and Invader stuff other than the main Invaders series:
[/B]
1. Captain America and Namor (#635.1) (2012) / Captain America and Bucky (#622) (2011) / Winter Solider: Winter Kills (2006)
I combined these since he only makes cameos in them but so damn good.
2. Captain America (2005) #46-48
Bucky is captain america at this time and he recruits Namor for a mission.
3. Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty (#2-4) (1998)
This comic has: Namor and Steve and Jim.
edit: I LOVE Supervillain Team up series!!! I would rec that for Doom and Namor shenanigans!!!
[B]Bonus: Marvels (1994); Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons (1996); The Marvels Project (2009)
[/B]
I’m going to be honest here and just say that every chance I get I try to chuck Marvels (1994) at people because it’s one of my favorite books. I love the art and while there is only a small focus on Namor as it details the history of Marvel as told by a reporter it is such a good book. Also Tales of the Marvels (1996) is told in the same way but through the eyes of a homeless drunk who had befriended Namor during the years that Namor had amnesia and lived on the streets of New York. The Marvels Project (2009) again this comic is told by another person during the golden age of heroes. The Angel narrates the rise of superheroes in this great comic.
(This is the list I came up with and have rec'ed to others before, but I combined it all here. I hope one day to sit down and make a very long comprehensive and extensive list of Sub-Mariner comics. I still haven't gone into his time with the x-men, or dark x-men, or cabal, the golden age, the 50's, or hickman's avengers etc.)
I hope this helps and if you have any questions please ask! Also if anyone else wants to add in their favorites please do!
Rev! That comic cover you posted for Tuesday terrific covers reminded me that ages ago when that cover first came out I was a bit upset that Namor got North Carolina cause that makes ZERO sense and he at least should have gotten Hawaii cause its in the ocean so I made a comic edit of Namor in the real world/ocean instead:
[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/00e2fb0e5cabc4ff59a2367968f747ac/tumblr_pop640jbPh1w6e2aeo1_500.jpg[/img]
The Original:
[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/ba2f220a1fc1df9705c6e4fcf7389039/tumblr_inline_ponjqoXyX31t85zwb_1280.jpg[/img]
I had this whole thing where I wanted to put comic characters in the real world, but gave up on it cause I didn't have time.
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4263271]Rev! That comic cover you posted for Tuesday terrific covers reminded me that ages ago when that cover first came out I was a bit upset that Namor got North Carolina cause that makes ZERO sense and he at least should have gotten Hawaii cause its in the ocean so I made a comic edit of Namor in the real world/ocean instead:
[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/00e2fb0e5cabc4ff59a2367968f747ac/tumblr_pop640jbPh1w6e2aeo1_500.jpg[/img]
The Original:
[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/ba2f220a1fc1df9705c6e4fcf7389039/tumblr_inline_ponjqoXyX31t85zwb_1280.jpg[/img]
I had this whole thing where I wanted to put comic characters in the real world, but gave up on it cause I didn't have time.[/QUOTE]
Ooooh. I love your edit. Reminds me of those Kirby and Buscema collage covers, like on Subby #7.
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/e/eb/Sub-Mariner_Vol_1_7.jpg[/img]
And yes, the North Carolina state was a head scratcher. Good point on Hawaii. And yes. FIFTY covers would have been a bit much. ; p
[QUOTE=Reviresco;4263325]Ooooh. I love your edit. Reminds me of those Kirby and Buscema collage covers, like on Subby #7.
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/e/eb/Sub-Mariner_Vol_1_7.jpg[/img]
And yes, the North Carolina state was a head scratcher. Good point on Hawaii. And yes. FIFTY covers would have been a bit much. ; p[/QUOTE]
Oh I had forgotten about that cover! It was an interesting one. At the time I had just seen a comic book trading card where Namor was set in the real world and said I would do that.
[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/b45b275ded69460c9ab4c0f2fc6b4b70/tumblr_p15hpegUO11urhzu9o4_r1_400.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4263346]Oh I had forgotten about that cover! It was an interesting one. At the time I had just seen a comic book trading card where Namor was set in the real world and said I would do that.
[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/b45b275ded69460c9ab4c0f2fc6b4b70/tumblr_p15hpegUO11urhzu9o4_r1_400.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
For the longest time, probably because I'd only seen small scans of this card, I didn't realize it had a real world background. I don't think this was as popular set as some of the others, either, as I don't see this card often.
Was reading some older intreviews and came across this one with Alex Ross, and he wanted a Namor movie! Of course this was back in 2014 but I really wish we could have one. Ross has always drawn a great Namor, I loved the Invaders (2019) Namor on that cover.[URL="https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/exclusive-alex-ross-supermans-charm-captain-americas-chinstrap-and-dreams-namor-movie"] Link[/URL]
[quote]You’ve got the keys to the Marvel or DC kingdoms to make any superhero film you want. Which one is it?
[B]ROSS:[/B] Namor! That’s kind of where Marvel is headed after they get Doctor Strange up to speed. Namor is such a primary character, it’s going to take some special thought and attention. You’ve got to get someone that looks like an elf. Like Jamie Campbell Bower, the guy who played Arthur in the Starz Camelot series. Since he’s so young he’d still be right for the part when they finally get around to it in five years. All I care about as a fan is to see them translate from what worked on the page for decades. One of the best onscreen interpretations was The Rocketeer. It was the most pure, wearing the costume straight out of the book.[/quote]
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4264745]Was reading some older intreviews and came across this one with Alex Ross, and he wanted a Namor movie! Of course this was back in 2014 but I really wish we could have one. Ross has always drawn a great Namor, I loved the Invaders (2019) Namor on that cover.[URL="https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/exclusive-alex-ross-supermans-charm-captain-americas-chinstrap-and-dreams-namor-movie"] Link[/URL][/QUOTE]
Thank goodness for Alex Ross and his good taste!
I agree with most of what he said there, especially with the "taking some special thought and attention" and the "looks like an elf." Jamie Cambell Bower, however, is a definite NO in my book. If they are going for the elf look, then he should look, and act, more like Thandruil.
[img]http://www.neontommy.com/sites/default/files/users/user1440/%40TheWrap.png[/img]
Speaking of Ross, his Marvelocity exhibit is up at the museum near Chicago. I wish I could go see, but that doesn't look likely at the moment. However, from some images I've seen online, it has at least two Namor pieces.
If you look to the far right of the image, there's Dr. Strange and Namor! I don't remember seeing this one in the book at all. Thor-El, did you see it? Several of the paintings on this wall appeared in the huge fold out cover, but not this Namor. It has a Johnny Romita Sr. vibe to me.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2Is50NW0AUkdFk.jpg[/img]
[url]https://twitter.com/DunnMuseum/status/1108497832019939329[/url]
Plus, they had the wonderful series of panels from the Jack Kirby Iron Man fight in Tales of Suspense and Tales to Astonish.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1TqIsqX0AEIHoN.jpg[/img]
[url]https://twitter.com/thealexrossart/status/1104765253278158849[/url]
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4262766]I'm overexcited at the idea of steampunk and seapunk!!!I LOVE those so much! Especially the nautical steampunk creations, it would look so amazing!!! I agree that Namor needs a unique look and hope someday to see this. I do have some comic recs that could show you more of Namor without the impending gloom and Doom of Hickman's run. I don't have anything really against Hickman Namor but that definitely isn't the shakesperan silver age Namor, and whats more the situation the characters were in pushed everyone to their limits so I understand how the characters would be under pressure. I only real issue I have is Namor lying and sending someone else to get revenge for his people, I feel he would have done that himself and not bowed to Proxmia Midnight. The tension between T'challa and Namor was excellently written, however I wouldn't want that for every future comic so it's why I tend to say 'Don't put Namor in more Black Panther stuff'.
[B]Sub-Mariner Comic Recs:
[/B]
- Namor the First Mutant (2010) / Sub-Mariner (2007)
This comic series is really a good way to get to see the Namor in his own environment as a ruler of his people. Also is one of the more modern recent series that explores the character. It's the best if you want a more modern take on Namor. The 2007 comic deals with what happened after the 1st Civil War in the comics as Namor tries to reveal who has been killing surface dwellers in the name of Atlantis while facing opposition on all sides.
- Sub-Mariner Comics 70th Anniversary Special (2009)
Contains three stories, including the first sub-mariner comic, they really are the best, especially the first story.
- Fear Itself: The Deep (2011)
Namor loses his confidence. It's when Attuma gets a hammer and Namor teams up with Doctor Strange. (this was the one that was being talked about on twitter for DS2)
[B]If you want Namor comics in a kind of order this I rec you read these since it starts with Namor being reintroduced in comics for the first time in Silver Age:
[/B]
-Fantastic Four (#4 and 6) (1961) / Uncanny X-Men (#6) (1963) / Daredevil (#7) (1964) / Avengers (1963) #3-4
Classic Silver Age Namor: Namor regains his memories in FF #4 and in #6 teams up with Doctor Doom. In X-men he teams up with Magneto and in Daredevil he tries to sue the human race. Avengers include battles, him teaming up with the Hulk, and freeing Captain America from the ice.
-Tales to Astonish (Starting at #70)
Silver Age Namor! More Atlantis, Underwater Quests, and dealing with being a ruler of Atlantis.
-The Sub-Mariner (1968)
The Silver Age Sub-Mariner Comic, this is standard for every fan to read, and also for the first time in years after not having written Namor since the Golden Age, Bill Everett returns in the 50th issue.
-Prince Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1984)
Namor travels to the surface world to attempt to make peace with the UN. (short series)
[B]-Saga of the Sub-Mariner (1988)
You want a condensed history of Namor and everything that happened to him? This is what you should read, this comic series summarizes everything up until that point in the comics.[/B]
-Namor the Sub-Mariner (1990)
This is the 90’s Namor comic full of bulging muscles, tiny speedos, ponytails, and other things that made the 90’s well the 90’s. Namor's last long running series.
More comic recs:
-Sub-Mariner the Depths
I can’t not rec this comic, I love how creepy and scary they made Namor here and this story is told by a man who doesn’t believe in Atlantis. However be warned that there is very little Namor in this comic since he is more of a looming presence. This has a very dark setting.
-Defenders (2001); Defenders (2005); Fear Itself: The Deep (2011); Defenders (2012)
These comics mainly revolve around the Defenders, and is the more recent times that the Defenders got together other than the first main series: The Defenders (1972)
-What if? Sub-Mariner: What if the Sub-Mariner grew up on land?
True this is an AU comic where Namor grows up on land but it proves that no matter what his character is the same and it's written by Greg Pak!
-Marvel Comics Presents (2019) #1
A short comic written by Greg Pak (Who imo is the best writer for Namor) and this basically retcons why Namor had Amnesia form after the war until he was found by Johnny Storm.
-New Warriors (1990) #44
Namor comforts and supports Namorita, this comic gives me feels.
-Marvel Comics Presents (2007) #7
"Paying Respects": Namor grieves over the death of Namorita.
Marvel Comics Presents (1988) #33
The Sub-Mariner “Dying in Paradise”: This comic is silent, with no speaking words but it's absolutely one of my favorite Namor comics.
[B]Namor and Invader stuff other than the main Invaders series:
[/B]
1. Captain America and Namor (#635.1) (2012) / Captain America and Bucky (#622) (2011) / Winter Solider: Winter Kills (2006)
I combined these since he only makes cameos in them but so damn good.
2. Captain America (2005) #46-48
Bucky is captain america at this time and he recruits Namor for a mission.
3. Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty (#2-4) (1998)
This comic has: Namor and Steve and Jim.
edit: I LOVE Supervillain Team up series!!! I would rec that for Doom and Namor shenanigans!!!
[B]Bonus: Marvels (1994); Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons (1996); The Marvels Project (2009)
[/B]
I’m going to be honest here and just say that every chance I get I try to chuck Marvels (1994) at people because it’s one of my favorite books. I love the art and while there is only a small focus on Namor as it details the history of Marvel as told by a reporter it is such a good book. Also Tales of the Marvels (1996) is told in the same way but through the eyes of a homeless drunk who had befriended Namor during the years that Namor had amnesia and lived on the streets of New York. The Marvels Project (2009) again this comic is told by another person during the golden age of heroes. The Angel narrates the rise of superheroes in this great comic.
(This is the list I came up with and have rec'ed to others before, but I combined it all here. I hope one day to sit down and make a very long comprehensive and extensive list of Sub-Mariner comics. I still haven't gone into his time with the x-men, or dark x-men, or cabal, the golden age, the 50's, or hickman's avengers etc.)
I hope this helps and if you have any questions please ask! Also if anyone else wants to add in their favorites please do![/QUOTE]
This is really helpful. Thank you!
Keep you eyes peeled for Amazon/Comixology sales as well. The Submariner Masterworks stuff usually drops to about $3 a pop when they do them.
[QUOTE=Reviresco;4265468]Thank goodness for Alex Ross and his good taste!
I agree with most of what he said there, especially with the "taking some special thought and attention" and the "looks like an elf." Jamie Cambell Bower, however, is a definite NO in my book. If they are going for the elf look, then he should look, and act, more like Thandruil.[/QUOTE]
I agree that Bower isn't the right actor and Thandruil totally had that 'im a king' attitude down XD. That ALex Ross namor vs iron piece is beautiful!!! I love his work and that other Namor look interesting but i think it doesn't really look like his usual style? I would love a chance to see these up close.
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4266180]I agree that Bower isn't the right actor and Thandruil totally had that 'im a king' attitude down XD. That ALex Ross namor vs iron piece is beautiful!!! I love his work and that other Namor look interesting but i think it doesn't really look like his usual style? [B]I would love a chance to see these up close.[/B][/QUOTE]
Me too! I think it will be up through September, but short of a miracle ... hey, isn't the Powerball lottery up to 625 million? ;)
Well, looking at the solicitations, it appears I am wrong. Except for one brief mention in an issue of Avengers, I haven't seen Namor or the Atlanteans mentioned, or on any cover, in Jason Aaron's War of Realms event.
Part of me feels we have dodged a bullet, as I'm still not that confident in Aaron's version of Namor. OTOH, listening to the usual Marvel nonsense about how this event touches _every_ corner of the MU, while ignoring the 75% of the planet covered by water is beyond annoying. On the bright side, at least Atlantis won't be destroyed ... AGAIN, since it doesn't appear any of the villains are getting their feet wet. LOL!
[QUOTE=Reviresco;4267296]Well, looking at the solicitations, it appears I am wrong. Except for one brief mention in an issue of Avengers, I haven't seen Namor or the Atlanteans mentioned, or on any cover, in Jason Aaron's War of Realms event.
Part of me feels we have dodged a bullet, as I'm still not that confident in Aaron's version of Namor. OTOH, listening to the usual Marvel nonsense about how this event touches _every_ corner of the MU, while ignoring the 75% of the planet covered by water is beyond annoying. On the bright side, at least Atlantis won't be destroyed ... AGAIN, since it doesn't appear any of the villains are getting their feet wet. LOL![/QUOTE]
THANK NEPTUNE. I've said it before but I am not at all pleased with how Aaron is treating Namor and the Atlanteans, so reading this makes me happy. The downside is that readers who do pick up war of realms will probably only get a cameo of Namor in a splash page somewhere, but it is a small price to pay for Aaron not dragging Atlantis more into the gutter. lol, he already destroyed Atlantis so destroying it twice would be over kill XD. Namor is getting far better focus in Invaders and so I'm putting my hope in that comic.
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4267336]THANK NEPTUNE. I've said it before but I am not at all pleased with how Aaron is treating Namor and the Atlanteans, so reading this makes me happy. The downside is that readers who do pick up war of realms will probably only get a cameo of Namor in a splash page somewhere, but it is a small price to pay for Aaron not dragging Atlantis more into the gutter. lol, he already destroyed Atlantis so destroying it twice would be over kill XD. Namor is getting far better focus in Invaders and so I'm putting my hope in that comic.[/QUOTE]
LOL! Like I said, it's a mixed bag. Events give more exposure, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's _good_ exposure. Hopefully we'll get something else that more Namor friendly. In addition to the Invaders, that is.
Hey Rev, not sure if you might know this but I once read an article about Bill Everett and his inks for the original submariners, and how that changed when I believe it was Kirby who finalized the Atlanteans as being blue in FF? They were blue and green before because of how Everett was experimenting with the inks? I was trying to find that article/webpage again and couldn't. Did you ever come across this?
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4270500]Hey Rev, not sure if you might know this but I once read an article about Bill Everett and his inks for the original submariners, and how that changed when I believe it was Kirby who finalized the Atlanteans as being blue in FF? They were blue and green before because of how Everett was experimenting with the inks? I was trying to find that article/webpage again and couldn't. Did you ever come across this?[/QUOTE]
My understanding is that in the first couple of issues of Marvel Comics / Marvel Mystery Comics, Bill Everett was experimenting with the coloring techniques, much like John Byrne did with Duo Shade on his Namor run, in an effort to portray the effect of being underwater. It basically resulted in very muddy reproduction. In those first issues, Everett also colored almost everyone, including Namor, blue -- again to portray the effect of being underwater. When the Atlanteans, at least the women, were out of the water, they looked like Namor. Shortly, Everett abandoned the idea that Namor and the female Atlanteans should be colored blue underwater. Though, inconsistently, there were a couple of issues, where the women were colored blue or green. The men, all the time, in or out of the water, IIRC, were green and looked more alien.
Yes, it was Stan Lee and Kirby's Fantastic Four Annual #1, where the Sub-Mariners became Atlanteans and as a race, both genders, blue.
I think the article you are looking for is by Sean Howe -- and it's illustrated! Here's the link.
[URL="http://atomsmashers.blogspot.com/2012/12/atlantis-blues.html"]Atlantis Blues[/URL]
[QUOTE=Reviresco;4270584]My understanding is that in the first couple of issues of Marvel Comics / Marvel Mystery Comics, Bill Everett was experimenting with the coloring techniques, much like John Byrne did with Duo Shade on his Namor run, in an effort to portray the effect of being underwater. It basically resulted in very muddy reproduction. In those first issues, Everett also colored almost everyone, including Namor, blue -- again to portray the effect of being underwater. When the Atlanteans, at least the women, were out of the water, they looked like Namor. Shortly, Everett abandoned the idea that Namor and the female Atlanteans should be colored blue underwater. Though, inconsistently, there were a couple of issues, where the women were colored blue or green. The men, all the time, in or out of the water, IIRC, were green and looked more alien.
Yes, it was Stan Lee and Kirby's Fantastic Four Annual #1, where the Sub-Mariners became Atlanteans and as a race, both genders, blue.
I think the article you are looking for is by Sean Howe -- and it's illustrated! Here's the link.
[URL="http://atomsmashers.blogspot.com/2012/12/atlantis-blues.html"]Atlantis Blues[/URL][/QUOTE]
Thanks so much! I knew the male Atlanteans were more fish like and non human than the female ones, and you are a life saver! I was going insane trying to remember where I had read this. :D
[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4270599]Thanks so much! I knew the male Atlanteans were more fish like and non human than the female ones, and you are a life saver! I was going insane trying to remember where I had read this. :D[/QUOTE]
Happy to help and pass along Sean Howe's excellent article / blogpost. :)
I need to go through and see where the Atlateans were also colored green. It could be the influence of Llyra, but I was thinking that the green skinned merman were Lemurian. I think Stuart Moore hinted at it also and the biases accompanying it.
[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/7cedf65766daf521e2adc96f956f51d7/tumblr_inline_poxprixzka1t85zwb_540.jpg[/img]
David Self was hired to write a Namor script, but I thought it was earlier than 2004. Though, this could be a second or third draft. This actually makes Namor more like Aquaman, i.e. raised on land, so I’m glad they didn’t go this route. One of the big battle scenes reminded of the big battle scene in the Aquaman movie, so I’m wondering if some folks at DC didn’t read it also.
If you want to read the alleged script, you can find it here:
[URL="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mKRMdui-BcwiAoSZN1N6DVyyBzMAqX8c/view"]David Self Sub-Mariner Script[/URL]
I love these ideas, and your command of Namoric History.
[QUOTE=Reviresco;4272027]
David Self was hired to write a Namor script, but I thought it was earlier than 2004. Though, this could be a second or third draft. This actually makes Namor more like Aquaman, i.e. raised on land, so I’m glad they didn’t go this route. One of the big battle scenes reminded of the big battle scene in the Aquaman movie, so I’m wondering if some folks at DC didn’t read it also.
If you want to read the alleged script, you can find it here:
[URL="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mKRMdui-BcwiAoSZN1N6DVyyBzMAqX8c/view"]David Self Sub-Mariner Script[/URL][/QUOTE]
I'm totally going to give this a read later, thanks! I am very glad that they didn't make it if they were just going to go the aquaman route. Even though the what if namor grew up on land one shot is one of my favorite comics it just is that, an AU, and his story is far better where he has grown up in the ocean. I wouldn't be surprised if they did since I have been a bit critical about how much they have taken from Namor's whole look. Seriously in some Aquaman stills all they had to do was slap on some wings and pointed ears and there was Namor. (lol, I'm going to have to rent Aquaman and give a watch soon)
This link is for Marvel covering their 80 years history in articles, I'm keeping an eye on it to see if Namor is featured in April, since that was the time his comic was first created.
[URL="https://www.marvel.com/search?by_tag=1&query=Marvel%2080th%20Anniversary"]Marvel's 80 Year History[/URL]
I was just over in the "Positive Attributes" thread and Stingray was brought up. I've never been a huge fan of the character, but I do like the Jacques Cousteau comparison. I've just never been able to get past the suit, it just makes no sense to me aside from the wings. He has like an arrow or spade shape on his mask, I'm guessing some starburst on his chest, and then standard briefs and boots. Am I missing something with the symbols?