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I personally see very little evidence that Van Sciver is a "white supremacist" as many people claim. However his anti-"SJW" rants are definitely annoying and is the main reason why I stopped watching his channel, which at it's very conception was more about his personal experiences in the comic book industry in contrast to the majority of his content that he posts now a days which can be boiled down to "muh SJW Star Wars".
Nevertheless, I am apathetic to his personal views. If one is a good artist, I could ignore their public image and just focus on their art. I think this is the case with Van Sciver.
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[QUOTE=Timothy Hunter;4164827]I personally see very little evidence that Van Sciver is a "white supremacist" as many people claim. However his anti-"SJW" rants are definitely annoying and is the main reason why I stopped watching his channel, which at it's very conception was more about his personal experiences in the comic book industry in contrast to the majority of his content that he posts now a days which can be boiled down to "muh SJW Star Wars".
Nevertheless, I am apathetic to his personal views. If one is a good artist, I could ignore their public image and just focus on their art. I think this is the case with Van Sciver.[/QUOTE]
Oh good. I'm meh on his art (neither hating or loving), but went YT surfing and couldn't find any WS commentary either. Maybe it's there, but I'm not going to condemn anyone based on hearsay because too many people in the past have had their lives ruined based purely on hearsay (see the Salem Witchcraft Trials and so forth.) Sure there was behavior unbecoming of a 'gentleman' but that kind of thing has become common on all sides of society these days.
Anyone have actual video links? Like there are links of Dan Didio actually trolling Wally fans kind of links?
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[QUOTE=Timothy Hunter;4164827]I personally see very little evidence that Van Sciver is a "white supremacist" as many people claim.[/quote]
He has been [URL="https://twitter.com/SjwSpiderman/status/1082997945358639104"]cited[/URL] as having ties to such people. He was also a leader in Comicsgate, which is known to harbor racists, at least (check out the work of Richard Meyer and Douglas Ernst, if you want a few examples).
Granted, I do see more misogyny and alt-right views then white supremacism in EVS.
[QUOTE=Timothy Hunter;4164827]However his anti-"SJW" rants are definitely annoying and is the main reason why I stopped watching his channel, which at it's very conception was more about his personal experiences in the comic book industry in contrast to the majority of his content that he posts now a days which can be boiled down to "muh SJW Star Wars".[/quote]
Oh, yeah. I think he's kinda high on himself, to be honest.
[QUOTE=Timothy Hunter;4164827]Nevertheless, I am apathetic to his personal views. If one is a good artist, I could ignore their public image and just focus on their art. I think this is the case with Van Sciver.[/QUOTE]
That's the decision we all have to make, at what point someone's personal behavior is and is not separable from their work. We'll all have different lines in the sand.
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So being buddy buddy with supremacists doesn't make you one ...nice to know.
People really like dying on every hill.
In any case EVS doesn't know anything and if he did he would most likely twist the information and make make it about it being the fault of women and minorities.
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[QUOTE=Timothy Hunter;4164618]I don't exactly know why Van Sciver would know this sort of insider information, considering that he was merely a middle tier comic book artist when he worked for DC, but this rings true to me.[/QUOTE]
Ethan Van Sciver, the guy on the ground floor of the racist Comicsgate called variants a scam. How many variant covers did he draw?
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[QUOTE=WebLurker;4164946]He has been [URL="https://twitter.com/SjwSpiderman/status/1082997945358639104"]cited[/URL] as having ties to such people. He was also a leader in Comicsgate, which is known to harbor racists, at least (check out the work of Richard Meyer and Douglas Ernst, if you want a few examples).
Granted, I do see more misogyny and alt-right views then white supremacism in EVS.
Oh, yeah. I think he's kinda high on himself, to be honest.
That's the decision we all have to make, at what point someone's personal behavior is and is not separable from their work. We'll all have different lines in the sand.[/QUOTE]
I will say that while I certainly hope that Van Sciver is not a white supremacist, I do feel he is attracting those people.
On the YouTube video above, the comments section has this exchange:
[quote=ComicArtistPro Secrets YouTube channel]
Disney is the Devil
3 days ago
100 years ago, left-wingers called classic Marxism "progressive," yet it failed horribly and caused untold amounts of misery, because it was based on a totally false understanding of humanity. Nobody in history has ever caused more death and destruction than Karl Marx. So the lefties, undaunted by failure, just reinterpreted Marx's basic worldview in a cultural context, and now they call their SJW lunacy "progressive." But being based on lies just like its intellectual forefather, Cultural Marxism is destined to fail horribly as well. As we can see, it destroys everything it touches. But will it eventually destroy all of Western Civilization? Things may get pretty interesting in the next few decades. Stay tuned.
Evil Ash85
2 days ago
They tried it before under the Soviet union, the BS that Walt Disney hated Jews was made up by the Commies to discredit one of the few in Hollywood trying to stand up to them taking control and spreading propaganda, so they used the "Walt hates Commies" and added "And who hated socialism/commies, Nazis, thus Walt must be a nazi" So even back then people and Hollywood would use the same tactics seen today to discredit and destroy those in their way.
If you control the flow of information and entertainment you control the masses.
SPTX
2 days ago (edited)
Evil Ash85 you don't need to be a nazi to hate jews, and I doubt the allegations about disney
are false either. Just take a look at who piloted communism then and now. Ask bobcy fisher, the general patton, or henri ford. They knew what was up.
[/quote]
I don't know if Van Sciver agrees with the above, but I wish he would have posted a comment disavowing them. Saying nothing can be interpreted as tacit agreement, which gives Van Sciver's detractors ammunition.
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[QUOTE=TheNewFiftyForum;4164748]van Sciver is currently at the forefront of Comicsgate, cozying up to white supremacists while working hard on telling a story wherein DC and Marvel are selling less comic books because there are slightly more women and people of color in them books these days. So, you know, maybe not a guy whose speculation is to be taken very seriously.[/QUOTE]
This. I'm just glad he's not drawing for DC anymore. Good riddance.
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[QUOTE=goldenknight2018;4164569]
in the past, there were 3000 comic shops and today only 1900 comic shops remain. what happens?
[/QUOTE]
When you visit a comic book store what do you SEE? 95% of the stuff in that store can be bought CHEAPER elsewhere. Especially from certain places that offer perks.
Funko Pop toys. Gamestop is/was doing a sell on them buy 3 get 1 FREE.
Barnes & Nobles-if you get their e-mails-you get 10-20% off coupons. And Funko Pop are price LOWER than most comic book stores.
Target-if you have a Target Card you get 5% off you total purchase.
Action figures-EVERYBODY has those figures price lower than $20 except comic book stores.
Comics. Now here is where we have an issue. Especially if you live in a city that has a HALF PRICE BOOKS or Movie Trading Post.
Half Price books is just that books at HALF the price or LOWER. It is very common to see books that just came out Wednesday already at Half Price on Friday. Especially DC New 52-Rebirth books (looking at YOU Hal Jordan & Flash & Batman & Superman & TITANS & TEEN TITANS & Justice League & Nightwing & Green Arrow).
Movie Trading Post tends to get new books (around 1-6 months old) and they have buy one get free (for everybody 4 times a year) and for certain guys once a month. I went to one with 50 comic bins. Batman ate up 10 by himself (just HIM not his supporting cast) and about 500 in a box.
Barnes & Nobles-who is having (or had) a sale of buy 1 or 2 DC books and get 1 FREE
This is all OFF LINE-lets talk ONLINE
HI EBAY!!!
HI AMAZON
HI Midtown comics and all your NONSTOP SALES.
How many stores saw a RENT increase 500% and higher? My mall got ruined because business had to move out due to rent. JC Penny, Macys, Dillards, Sears, Game Stop, Subway, Chick Fila & others.
Ordering out of habit. NO ONE at Dc is making a store buy all those variants or books. That goes for EVERY SINGLE TITLE. If Artgem covers are selling why am I bothering with the other cover?
These are the guys KILLING comic book stores. It does not matter how many Batman or Deadpool books you make-the above (especially Barnes & Nobles) will have them CHEAPER.
[QUOTE] wherein DC and Marvel are selling less comic books because there are slightly more women and people of color in them books these days. [/QUOTE]
Now to be FAIR-Dc nor Marvel can do anything about that. If I have a store where those books DON'T sell-that is on ME not those two.
I can't tell DC nor Marvel to stop selling Ms Marvel because I can't sell her book. That would be unfair to the stores who don't have that issue and her sales OUTSIDE of comics book stores.
I can't lose money if I am NOT ordering her book. So those stores that cry about Moon Girl only have themselves to blame. common sense says stop ordering it.
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[QUOTE=Comic-Reader Lad;4164982]
I don't know if Van Sciver agrees with the above, but [B]I wish he would have posted a comment disavowing them. [/B] Saying nothing can be interpreted as tacit agreement, which gives Van Sciver's detractors ammunition.[/QUOTE]
TRUE. Yeah those folks might help you get money for your stuff but long run-they will hurt you.
I mean when you only target certain folks with no substance-you attract those folks.
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[QUOTE=Comic-Reader Lad;4164982]I will say that while I certainly hope that Van Sciver is not a white supremacist, I do feel he is attracting those people.
On the YouTube video above, the comments section has this exchange:
I don't know if Van Sciver agrees with the above, but I wish he would have posted a comment disavowing them. Saying nothing can be interpreted as tacit agreement, which gives Van Sciver's detractors ammunition.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, seems like a lot of people like EVS have this problem. It doesn't do anyone any good.
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Putting aside Van Sciver's controversial opinions that I certainly don't agree with nor want to give any credence/recognition to...
I've said repeatedly that the future of the medium is not with the monthly floppies but rather with digital access and films. There's no other way around it.
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[QUOTE=kingaliencracker;4165096]Putting aside Van Sciver's controversial opinions that I certainly don't agree with nor want to give any credence/recognition to...
I've said repeatedly that the future of the medium is not with the monthly floppies but rather with digital access and films. There's no other way around it.[/QUOTE]
If we're going to get into the future of the medium, I think the comics industry needs -- to use an eyerolling corporate buzz phrase -- a "paradigm shift."
I agree that the monthly floppy is not sustainable and not going to attract new readers and that the key to the future success of the industry is digital. I think going forward, kids will be consumers of physical media less and less to the point where there might not be any need for physical media at all. This will be true for books, music, magazines, newspapers, and yes comics. Right now, we're in the in-between/migration phase where we're moving to digital, but are still trying to sustain the physical. So, right now, things are a bit chaotic for the different media whose content was traditionally delivered exclusively in physical form.
However, why I said there had to be a paradigm shift is because there has to be a complete ground-up re-thinking of how comics are created, distributed, and purchased. Yes, we can make digital copies of comics, but if they're just going to basically be scans of the printed page that you have to buy per issue, then that won't attract a lot of people.
I would propose:
[B]FORMAT: [/B]Comics should be rethought and redesigned to take advantage of everything digital has to offer. Quite frankly, digital comics shouldn't be something you read a panel at a time on a cellphone the way a lot of "digital first" comics seem to be done today. If I were to care about digital comics, you would have to create something that I can download and experience on my widescreen television because even on a tablet, a comic page often looks too small and so you have to zoom in thereby losing the effect of taking in the entire page at a glance, inventive panel-to-panel progression, and allowing for double page spreads. Just think of a Jim Lee double pager, say the one from his Justice League #1 where Batman is being fired upon and being able to view that on your big screen TV from your easy chair.
Other digital tricks can be added to the comics to enhance the experience (like behind the scenes interviews with the creators, being able to switch from original art to fully rendered page, clicking an icon to get Who's Who info on each character in the story, etc.), but the point is that comics need to be TV-compatible because a person's TV is the hub of their home entertainment experience. If comics are to survive, they should morph themselves into another onscreen entertainment option, allowing the viewer to switch seamlessly from TV to Blu-Ray to Internet browsing to streaming to reading a digital comic.
[B]Give me this to fill my widescreen TV, and I'll care about digital comics and never buy another print comic again:[/B]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/1KLFJWq.jpg[/img]
[B]PRICING:[/B] I don't think digital comics will be a viable option to most comics fans on a per-comic basis at the same price that a paper comic costs. If printing costs are being saved, that savings should be passed along to consumers. I get that right now, the companies don't want to do this because the retailers would have a shitfit, but I'm afraid that over time, the comics companies are going to have to face facts that print is dying. It's dying everywhere, and comics will be no exception. I think what would encourage more fans to buy more comics is to have multiple pricing options. Say you want a single digital comic. That might cost 2 dollars. However, if you are willing to do a digital subscription, you can save money just like in the old days of print subscriptions. There should even be an option to do an all-in subscription where you get everything the publisher puts out for something like $30 a week. For those who can do it, it would be a good way to get readers to sample comics that they aren't currently buying. Another way is to offer a one-time half-price trial for a digital comic.
I hate to say this, but the direct market model is so limiting to getting and sustaining customers. Most people will never walk into a comic store, and as the years pass, kids will want all of their entertainment options to be digital. I don't think any kid under the age of 15 has ever bought a CD, and there's no reason to think that there's any long term solution that will permanently reverse this. Eventually, the comics companies are going to have to face the fact that the direct market is more of a hindrance than a help in expanding comics' reach.
[B]CONTENT:[/B] I also think that comics should expand beyond the superhero genre to attract all those who have dismissed comics as a valid medium (like Bill Maher). Of course, DC has done good work with their Vertigo line, but what about comics that appeal to married women, career singles, etc. Japan has a wide variety of manga and something for every demographic (even though we only get the young male demographic stuff over here). We should do the same. There are TV shows and movies that are geared toward women, why not comics? A 45 year old woman might not walk into a comics store, but she might be tempted to download a digital comic that appeals to her demographic. Whatever prose novels such a woman might read could be done in the digital comics format.
In order for the comics industry to survive and thrive beyond going from one short term gimmick to another as it as since the industry's inception in the 1930s, it has to rethink itself and take itself seriously as a viable entertainment option that has wide appeal, content for any and every demographic, a convenient method of acquisition, and attractive pricing. Digital comics that take advantage of the widescreen television real estate to create eyepopping images and stories will make comics a more ubiquitous presence in the household.
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Since when did we put credit into what Van Sciver has to say?
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[QUOTE=Comic-Reader Lad;4165172]If we're going to get into the future of the medium, I think the comics industry needs -- to use an eyerolling corporate buzz phrase -- a "paradigm shift."
(snip)[/QUOTE]
I think that post really needs its own thread, so we can bury this one.
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[QUOTE=Comic-Reader Lad;4165172]If we're going to get into the future of the medium, I think the comics industry needs -- to use an eyerolling corporate buzz phrase -- a "paradigm shift."
I agree that the monthly floppy is not sustainable and not going to attract new readers and that the key to the future success of the industry is digital. I think going forward, kids will be consumers of physical media less and less to the point where there might not be any need for physical media at all. This will be true for books, music, magazines, newspapers, and yes comics. Right now, we're in the in-between/migration phase where we're moving to digital, but are still trying to sustain the physical. So, right now, things are a bit chaotic for the different media whose content was traditionally delivered exclusively in physical form.
However, why I said there had to be a paradigm shift is because there has to be a complete ground-up re-thinking of how comics are created, distributed, and purchased. Yes, we can make digital copies of comics, but if they're just going to basically be scans of the printed page that you have to buy per issue, then that won't attract a lot of people.
I would propose:
[B]FORMAT: [/B]Comics should be rethought and redesigned to take advantage of everything digital has to offer. Quite frankly, digital comics shouldn't be something you read a panel at a time on a cellphone the way a lot of "digital first" comics seem to be done today. If I were to care about digital comics, you would have to create something that I can download and experience on my widescreen television because even on a tablet, a comic page often looks too small and so you have to zoom in thereby losing the effect of taking in the entire page at a glance, inventive panel-to-panel progression, and allowing for double page spreads. Just think of a Jim Lee double pager, say the one from his Justice League #1 where Batman is being fired upon and being able to view that on your big screen TV from your easy chair.
Other digital tricks can be added to the comics to enhance the experience (like behind the scenes interviews with the creators, being able to switch from original art to fully rendered page, clicking an icon to get Who's Who info on each character in the story, etc.), but the point is that comics need to be TV-compatible because a person's TV is the hub of their home entertainment experience. If comics are to survive, they should morph themselves into another onscreen entertainment option, allowing the viewer to switch seamlessly from TV to Blu-Ray to Internet browsing to streaming to reading a digital comic.
[B]Give me this to fill my widescreen TV, and I'll care about digital comics and never buy another print comic again:[/B]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/1KLFJWq.jpg[/img]
[B]PRICING:[/B] I don't think digital comics will be a viable option to most comics fans on a per-comic basis at the same price that a paper comic costs. If printing costs are being saved, that savings should be passed along to consumers. I get that right now, the companies don't want to do this because the retailers would have a shitfit, but I'm afraid that over time, the comics companies are going to have to face facts that print is dying. It's dying everywhere, and comics will be no exception. I think what would encourage more fans to buy more comics is to have multiple pricing options. Say you want a single digital comic. That might cost 2 dollars. However, if you are willing to do a digital subscription, you can save money just like in the old days of print subscriptions. There should even be an option to do an all-in subscription where you get everything the publisher puts out for something like $30 a week. For those who can do it, it would be a good way to get readers to sample comics that they aren't currently buying. Another way is to offer a one-time half-price trial for a digital comic.
I hate to say this, but the direct market model is so limiting to getting and sustaining customers. Most people will never walk into a comic store, and as the years pass, kids will want all of their entertainment options to be digital. I don't think any kid under the age of 15 has ever bought a CD, and there's no reason to think that there's any long term solution that will permanently reverse this. Eventually, the comics companies are going to have to face the fact that the direct market is more of a hindrance than a help in expanding comics' reach.
[B]CONTENT:[/B] I also think that comics should expand beyond the superhero genre to attract all those who have dismissed comics as a valid medium (like Bill Maher). Of course, DC has done good work with their Vertigo line, but what about comics that appeal to married women, career singles, etc. Japan has a wide variety of manga and something for every demographic (even though we only get the young male demographic stuff over here). We should do the same. There are TV shows and movies that are geared toward women, why not comics? A 45 year old woman might not walk into a comics store, but she might be tempted to download a digital comic that appeals to her demographic. Whatever prose novels such a woman might read could be done in the digital comics format.
In order for the comics industry to survive and thrive beyond going from one short term gimmick to another as it as since the industry's inception in the 1930s, it has to rethink itself and take itself seriously as a viable entertainment option that has wide appeal, content for any and every demographic, a convenient method of acquisition, and attractive pricing. Digital comics that take advantage of the widescreen television real estate to create eyepopping images and stories will make comics a more ubiquitous presence in the household.[/QUOTE]
I love what your saying about digital, it's what would move me to it fully
