[QUOTE=Snoop Dogg;4214592]are logan's kimonos a narrative device used to show off his thicc legs and ass[/QUOTE]
I lived in Japan for 6 years and have worn kimonos. I also knew NO Ninja. I also know that wearing some clothing is a lot different than Killing an Asian Woman and putting a white one in her body with no cultural context.
I don't know why people don't get this...
People don't get it because that never happened.
Kwannon wasn't killed really ever with the more recent retcons and she more ended up in Revanche's body, and they didn't need cultural context given that they didn't do it for that reason, Betsy didn't ask for it to happen to her as it was done against her will and she made the most of it, and the bodies were melded together so they had traits and such of both, Betsy just ended up in the more Asian of the two bodies and she had long ago accepted that and moved on before the recent retcons...
[QUOTE=LoganAlpha30X33;4214835]Kwannon wasn't killed really ever with the more recent retcons and she more ended up in Revanche's body, and they didn't need cultural context given that they didn't do it for that reason, Betsy didn't ask for it to happen to her as it was done against her will and she made the most of it, and the bodies were melded together so they had traits and such of both, Betsy just ended up in the more Asian of the two bodies and she had long ago accepted that and moved on before the recent retcons...[/QUOTE]
Dude it ain’t worth it. At the end of the day, no matter how you explain what happened, people will just see it the way that they want to see it. That’s really all this thread has devolved into, a shouting contest in which case neither side will just agree to disagree. In the end, it just goes to show how this mess didn’t solve anything and how Psylocke is basically now yet another base breaking character in Marvel’s ever growing pile.
[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;4214215]See this is what I mean when it comes to the prospect of feeling offended for someone else. You make the claim that some people weren’t offended by Psylocke which seems to be the perspective of reinventing history in that it was such an underwhelming minority of those who were offended or those who were offended for others that that form of Psylocke is ciewed by the majority as her at her most iconic, extending beyond comics and into literally every media that she has appeared in be it video games, merchandise, movies and cartoons. A character doesn’t have that kind of staying power and popularity off of being something that offends people on the scale that you seek to compare it to.
You try to compare it to Gucci but Psylocke’s status is nothing compared to what happened there in which the sweater’s design showed blatant parallels to blackface complete with exaggerated features. And you saw just from how much of an outrage that that caused, what something that is truly deemed as offensive looks like. That isn’t something that Gucci is just going to walk away from regardless of them pulling the sweater and is a PR nightmare for the damage to the brand that it caused. Psylocke on the other hand, first and foremost, is a result of comic book science and has not presented herself as being Asian. She was a ninja yes, but then, so are a lot of characters within the MU. In her older appearances, the Asian traits came from the fact that she had a part of Kwannon within her, not something all her own and by the current day, not only is the body itself not even Asian but Eurasian but Betsy doesn’t present herself as Asian but as British. At that point, to call her yellowface is a matter of extreme opinion rather than any sort of hard fact.
Either way, in no way did this really “fix” Psylocke as shown by how divisive this change has shown to be to the point that people are still arguing about this to begin with. Hell chances are, both Psylocke and Kwannon are going to have this follow their characters for quite some time.[/QUOTE]
So here is what you aren't understanding I didn't call it yellowface, I don't need to be or call it yellowface to make the point but it has enough parallels to yellow face to make it uncomfortable thing. Psylocke is one bad story or just mediocre not well explained story away being yellow face. Psylocke was one misunderstood firestorm from being a PR disaster for Marvel. I didn't mention blackface and yellowface to say that Psylocke case was it,I mention them show how much crap people get doing it. The point was so what if move was done for political correctness avoiding a shitstorm is better than letting it sneak up on you screw you. Once again time or popularity isn't good reasoning this was the Iconic Indians Mascot Chief Wahoo ask yourself how did that make it 2018
[IMG]http://d3vsdfvkxh87qp.cloudfront.net/articles_images/d8/1518668865518/image.jpg[/IMG]
Even if Psylocke isn't yellow face she is was the face of Asian characters in Marvel and the ugly truth is that she got slot on teams because she has look of a minority. Now it is whole other issue them not using more Asian characters (something that Marvel needs to be criticized for) but for years the one Asian character has been Psylocke. The one A-list Asian character is actually British white woman. Now as i said we beat this horse to death in other thread and forgot the name of person but they did a very good job of explaining how Psylocke to them as mix raced person they connected to character so I can see that angle now but was never flesh out in books. Anyways the point is here while we are fight to get more in Asian characters to show up books let not have the one showing up be "Rachel Dozal". With Jubilee, Surge, Karma, Loa(rip),Armor, Sunfire, Trinary, Daken, Kwannon, etc around you have better options.
Anyways I see you think the thread a devolve into a scream match fine I have made my point but I will end with 3 things
- Since Psylocke has been change to back it looks like they have actively try to use other Asian characters. Armor, Jubilee, and Karma already have gotten more prominent roles in things
- The issue of Psylocke possibly being yellow face is gone,Marvel will never get into a controversy about it
- They left Kwannon around and she is showing up in Uncanny and if written well she can give people taste of character they use to like
For a just a "political correct move" it has a lot of tangible positive things you can see.
[QUOTE=Killerbee911;4214963]
- Since Psylocke has been change to back it looks like they have actively try to use other Asian characters. Armor, Jubilee, and Karma already have gotten more prominent roles in things
[/QUOTE]
I really dont think changing Psylocke back had anything to do with that as all three characters were already being used. Jubes in Gen X, Karma in Dead Souls and Armor in Gold
[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;4214524]And yet when Wolverine does the exact same thing despite being a white Canadian it’s perfectly fine and why, because he wasn’t placed into a Eurasian body? Would you still be talking the same way if Betsy was still doing the same things despite Caucasian body or would it now be that she’s honoring the culture?[/QUOTE]
Depends on the context
[QUOTE=Snoop Dogg;4214592]are logan's kimonos a narrative device used to show off his thicc legs and ass[/QUOTE]
Ugh I wish
[QUOTE=Killerbee911;4214963]
I see you think the thread a devolve into a scream match fine I have made my point but I will end with 3 things
- Since Psylocke has been change to back it looks like they have actively try to use other Asian characters. Armor, Jubilee, and Karma already have gotten more prominent roles in things
- The issue of Psylocke possibly being yellow face is gone,Marvel will never get into a controversy about it
- They left Kwannon around and she is showing up in Uncanny and if written well she can give people taste of character they use to like
For a just a "political correct move" it has a lot of tangible positive things you can see.[/QUOTE]
Hadn't noticed the 'Asian Upswing' that's totally cool!!
And such a nice positive ending
[QUOTE=Havok83;4215016]I really dont think changing Psylocke back had anything to do with that as all three characters were already being used. Jubes in Gen X, Karma in Dead Souls and Armor in Gold[/QUOTE]
It really didn’t and just feels like an excuse people like to use. There was absolutely nothing preventing the use of any of these characters beyond writers interest. It’s like saying if we got rid of the WatXM teen mutants that suddenly we’d see the New X-Men characters being used. It’s completely bogus.
Any apparent “upswing” of Asian use is just a fabrication. Jubilee never really stopped being used once Wood brought her back with her having been a supporting character in Hellcat during the Terrigen Crisis and a teacher in Generation X. Armor was brought back into prominence during WatXM vol 2 and even used in Gold as a replacement team member and part of Bobby’s team. Karma was a main character in Astonishing X-Men a few years ago and was part of New Mutants Dead Souls. Any statement even trying to say Psylocke’s change had anything to do with it is beyond reaching.
[QUOTE=Havok83;4215016]I really dont think changing Psylocke back had anything to do with that as all three characters were already being used. Jubes in Gen X, Karma in Dead Souls and Armor in Gold[/QUOTE]
Maybe you are right but I think there is a jump from being a side x-men project books to one of the focused characters in a main X-men book or story event. I don't mind people disagreeing with me on this just keep a eye and see if the trend continues and when we get the main X-books back
PS-Sunfire is also around too
[QUOTE=Killerbee911;4215093]Maybe you are right but I think there is a jump from being a side x-men project books to one of the focused characters in a main X-men book or story event. I don't mind people disagreeing with me on this just keep a eye and see if the trend continues and when we get the main X-books back
PS-Sunfire is also around too[/QUOTE]
I’d say you should wait to see if there’s any real pattern before jumping to conclusions. As shown above, all the characters mentioned were already being used and it had nothing to do with Psylocke. And I really wouldn’t count Shiro because he’s literally been nothing but wallpaper in his appearances rather than anything major.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;4215021]Depends on the context
[B]Ugh I wish[/B]
Hadn't noticed the 'Asian Upswing' that's totally cool!!
And such a nice positive ending[/QUOTE]
Not with all that hair tho.
[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;4215108]I’d say you should wait to see if there’s any real pattern before jumping to conclusions. As shown above, all the characters mentioned were already being used and it had nothing to do with Psylocke. And I really wouldn’t count Shiro because he’s literally been nothing but wallpaper in his appearances rather than anything major.[/QUOTE]
What do I have to wait ? It is assumption based on my reading of the information I am fine with people not calling it fact. What is fact is Nature Girl is on Marvelous, Jubilee is on Extremist, Armor is front and center in Next Gen and Karma is in Uncanny.. Armor was important in Disassemble , Jubilee was on main team and Karma is on Cyclops Uncanny squad. It looks like uptick to me I made an assumption to [B]ONE[/B] of the causes of it. When you consider how often X-men books seem like "hey look you get one minority from a group and only one alone"I am cool with my assumption. We aren't court there no burden of proof is need here lets hope I am right because if you are right means Marvel took away its most recognizable "Asian" character with no plan to replace her.
[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;4215108]I’d say you should wait to see if there’s any real pattern before jumping to conclusions. As shown above, all the characters mentioned were already being used and it had nothing to do with Psylocke.[B] And I really wouldn’t count Shiro because he’s literally been nothing but wallpaper in his appearances rather than anything major.[/B][/QUOTE]
yeah thats like saying we are seeing more black representation bc Maggott appeared in Uncanny
[QUOTE=Killerbee911;4215288]What do I have to wait ? It is assumption based on my reading of the information I am fine with people not calling it fact. What is fact is Nature Girl is on Marvelous, Jubilee is on Extremist, Armor is front and center in Next Gen and Karma is in Uncanny.. Armor was important in Disassemble , Jubilee was on main team and Karma is on Cyclops Uncanny squad. It looks like uptick to me I made an assumption to [B]ONE[/B] of the causes of it. When you consider how often X-men books seem like "hey look you get one minority from a group and only one alone"I am cool with my assumption. We aren't court there no burden of proof is need here lets hope I am right because if you are right means Marvel took away its most recognizable "Asian" character with no plan to replace her.[/QUOTE]
Blue had that Rashka girl and Daken (whom also appeared in Iceman and ANW). Gen X had Jubilee and Nature Girl. Red had Trinary. There was quite a bit of Asian representation in ResurrXion. We'll have to agree to disagree but I dont think much has changed from now compared to last year