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I think being afraid of silly is its own problem though. You take his first five villains with staying power, and the only one who's not arguably silly is Luthor.
But when it comes to holding it against him, I think it just shows his versatility. There are street level characters with magical imp rogues, symbiotes, and other things that clash in ways we don't see with Superman. Thor isn't menaced by the likes of Prankster or Funky Flashman, but then he's limited to pretty much the same asgardians and general godlike beings. I mean for the sake of competition we have an Australian guy called Captain Boomerang who throws boomerangs, a guy named Scarecrow who dresses like a Scarecrow and scares people, and a guy with a freeze gun called Mister Freeze. Stay cooool and chiiiiilll.
[QUOTE=Vordan;4546398]Maybe they could just do a fusion dance. Is Satanus really a bigger character nowadays? I doubt most people would even know what his deal is.[/QUOTE]
Was, up to the mid 2000s. I guess he still might be but of course that says so little. We've seen them shy away from the demonic sorcerer type, which is unfortunate in that League writers still do it and always make Superman look helpless with nothing to offset that portrayal.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4542370]Now THIS would be poaching. And I completely disagree. Cythonna is a god of and from Krypton. Superman definitely and rightfully claims her as part of his rogues gallery.[/QUOTE]
Eh, just being from Krypton is kind of a cop out. I'm not saying she has to be exclusively a Wonder Woman rogue, she should even square off with Superman more often, but it feels like she should have at least some issue with Wonder Woman.
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I have a general dislike of the "rogues gallery" concept in general. It's a shared fictional universe, but the only hero this villain every fights is Superman? makes no sense.
Yes it sometimes leads to dumb stories. Batman and Catwoman vs Cheetah was ridiculous. Batgirl somehow beating Livewire was equally dumb. That's an issue of the story being poorly planned though.
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[QUOTE=Kuwagaton;4546645]I think being afraid of silly is its own problem though. You take his first five villains with staying power, and the only one who's not arguably silly is Luthor.
But when it comes to holding it against him, I think it just shows his versatility. There are street level characters with magical imp rogues, symbiotes, and other things that clash in ways we don't see with Superman. Thor isn't menaced by the likes of Prankster or Funky Flashman, but then he's limited to pretty much the same asgardians and general godlike beings. I mean for the sake of competition we have an Australian guy called Captain Boomerang who throws boomerangs, a guy named Scarecrow who dresses like a Scarecrow and scares people, and a guy with a freeze gun called Mister Freeze. Stay cooool and chiiiiilll.
.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, I fail to see how an scarecrow, a penguin, a lizard are so much cooler compared to Bizarro or Brainiac... Fans can be so biased.
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[QUOTE=stargazer01;4546558]I had an argument recently with someone who said Superman villains were kind of silly.. implying they weren't as good as other superheroes rogue galleries..
It made me so angry because it's a big lie, I really fail to see HOW are Batman and Spiderman villains less silly than villains like Doomsday, Brainiac or Bizarro. Seriously, wtf, this is so unfair and untrue. :mad:
[/QUOTE]
If DC actually uses Supe's real rogues like they did back in the 80s they would totally overtake Batman and Spidey's rogues. I mean villains like Maxima, Ultra-Humanite, Rampage, Silver Banshee, they're underrated and had some great stories.
I thought one of his most underrated villains is Emil Hamilton, when he turned evil it was kind of a shock, and great storytelling because Supes really trusted this guy.
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Rereading a lot of the 2000s Superbooks has me pleasantly surprised with how common it is to see SuperRogues pop up. Guys like Riot who haven’t shown up in years were constantly making cameos in this time period. It seems like the New 52 brought an end to that which is a mistake imo. Throwing away all of Superman’s Rogues so they could keep making new characters seems misguided, although only the Lobdell creations were totally lame imo.
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[QUOTE=LifeIsILL;4553719]If DC actually uses Supe's real rogues like they did back in the 80s they would totally overtake Batman and Spidey's rogues. I mean villains like Maxima, Ultra-Humanite, Rampage, Silver Banshee, they're underrated and had some great stories.
I thought one of his most underrated villains is Emil Hamilton, when he turned evil it was kind of a shock, and great storytelling because Supes really trusted this guy.[/QUOTE]Metallo is one of the best Superman rogues in terms of teamups with other villains. He's powerful, but not really as powerful as Superman.
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[QUOTE=TheRay;4547165]Eh, just being from Krypton is kind of a cop out. I'm not saying she has to be exclusively a Wonder Woman rogue, she should even square off with Superman more often, but it feels like she should have at least some issue with Wonder Woman.[/QUOTE]
Why would she? She's the last god of Krypton. No connection at all to Earthbound pantheons like the Greco-Romans or the Norse. None to the New Gods. Cythonna is Rao's enemy. She wouldn't even glance at Diana.
The only people she would remotely be interested are the living Kryptonians: Kal, Kara, Dru, Ursa, possibly Karen, Conner, Jon, Lor, and Krypto.
Anyone else? Not worth her time.
And it's a MUCH bigger cop-out to say that because someone's an evil god, Wonder Woman has to fight them. That's like saying because someone is an evil alien, Superman has to fight them. That's so limiting to BOTH characters.
Also, if you follow Wonder Woman, then you already know a big complaint from her fanbase is the over-reliance on her rogues galleries being gods. More gods is not the answer there.
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[QUOTE=marhawkman;4548029]I have a general dislike of the "rogues gallery" concept in general. It's a shared fictional universe, but the only hero this villain every fights is Superman? makes no sense.
Yes it sometimes leads to dumb stories. Batman and Catwoman vs Cheetah was ridiculous. Batgirl somehow beating Livewire was equally dumb. That's an issue of the story being poorly planned though.[/QUOTE]
Rogues Galleries for a specific franchise makes a lot more sense than a shared universe does.
So, the other Justice Leaguers could clean up Gotham City in less than a weekend, but they don't dare enter because Batman told them to stay out of his turf? And in the meantime, Gotham goes from merely crime-ridden city down to infamous City of Living Nightmares under his watch, and that's OK by the other heroes (all of whom are considerably more powerful than Bruce)?
Makes no sense without giant steaming piles of Plot-Induced Stupidity for everyone involved. And that's not "sometimes". That's just par for the course at both DC and Marvel.
Rogues Galleries are great, just to reiterate.
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I am just not one for the constant cycles. There have been times where they would go simultaneous or back to back on Superman and it made them seem a little weaker. And that's common with other heroes, the gauntlet. Reminds me of older action tv stuff like Batman 66 or Power Rangers where a fight would break out and the goons would form a big circle and bob in place before they ran up one by one to get knocked out.
It's why I appreciate the specific and rare Luthor Brainiac team or the Luthor Mxy story arc that ran from Exile to Krimson.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4555073]Rogues Galleries for a specific franchise makes a lot more sense than a shared universe does. [/quote]BUT, DC does have them as characters in a shared universe though.[quote]So, the other Justice Leaguers could clean up Gotham City in less than a weekend, but they don't dare enter because Batman told them to stay out of his turf? And in the meantime, Gotham goes from merely crime-ridden city down to infamous City of Living Nightmares under his watch, and that's OK by the other heroes (all of whom are considerably more powerful than Bruce)? [/quote]Well that actually happened. Did I like the idea? not really. Like you said, the idea doesn't make sense unless Batman is the only hero in the world. But it happened and was a giant steaming pile of PIS.[quote]Makes no sense without giant steaming piles of Plot-Induced Stupidity for everyone involved. And that's not "sometimes". That's just par for the course at both DC and Marvel.[/quote]I find it to be a giant pile of PIS that crossovers aren't normal. I mean from an in-universe perspective it makes sense to have minor crossovers regularly.
For example: Batgirl investigates a new gang trying to muscle into Gotham. She tracks them to an area outside town near Metropolis and runs into their leader... Devastation. Deva starts trying to smash her but Supergirl shows up to fight Deva.
Editorial would be unlikely go for it for brand-identity reasons. But from a perspective of a consistent shared universe it makes sense. Why? Well, Deva basically has nothing to do. She's one of those characters who in-universe got left jobless and homeless(literally) when the most recent story with them was over. Also Gotham and Metropolis are canonically very close together. Also I like the idea that aliens like Kryptonians are immune to Deva's instinctive ability to know how to kill everything.[quote]Rogues Galleries are great, just to reiterate.[/QUOTE]Only if you treat the various comics as separate IPs. Which doesn't work when the Justice League has been a thing for longer than most individual heroes.
I get the feeling this is one of those power tier things. IE: Superman comics have super-tier enemies, Batman doesn't.
Justice League Unlimited had a few eps that actually dealt with that. Coincidently two had Stargirl. In one of them, STRIPE , and Stargirl start the ep by having a discussion about how annoying it is to have Superman save them from villains. Then General Eilers(Eiling?) shows up in his mutated form and challenges Superman to a fight.... who doesn't show up. So Stargirl and STRIPE have to stop him from wrecking stuff. They call for backup and the only guys available are Vigilante and Shining Knight. The episode actually ends with Eilers having a moment of thoughtful contemplation about how his motives were bad and leaving.... after kicking the crap out of them for 15 minutes or so. If this had been an MMO raid it'd have been a party wipe with the boss at 75% HP. It's one of the rare cases where they actually had the heroes LOSE. If I was to say it had a point, it's that it takes a lot more courage to be a guy who's a normal human fighting villains who ARE super.
The other was a story where Stargirl had to save Supergirl from Metallo. They were in Skartaris and Supergirl was mostly powerless for most of the fight. (Because the people of Skartaris had somehow found a building sized hunk of Kryptonite.) The sub-plot was related to Stargirl feeling inferior and useless. Which ended when Stargirl ripped Metallo's heart out while he was fighting Supergirl.
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who are the top five recurring post-Crisis villains? I have no idea besides, say, Doomsday.
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From 1986 to 2003 you clearly have Hank Henshaw, Lex Luthor, Brainiac, and Doomsday... then maybe Intergang? It's sort of up for grabs after the top 4, but Intergang includes so many characters.
Beyond that timespan there were all the forms of Zod. Dominus and Imperiex also had huge sagas post crisis if we're looking at appearances.
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[QUOTE=Hypestyle;4556216]who are the top five recurring post-Crisis villains? I have no idea besides, say, Doomsday.[/QUOTE]
1. Doomsday
2. Cyborg Superman
3. Lobo, I'll go with Lobo, based on Superman's sometimes battles with him, comics and cartoon.
4. Silver Banshee
5. I'd almost go Maxima, but she stopped being 100% adversarial after her first year.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4555067]Why would she? She's the last god of Krypton. No connection at all to Earthbound pantheons like the Greco-Romans or the Norse. None to the New Gods.[/QUOTE]
That is not what I mean and not the point I am going for. It's not about pantheons or even being a God. She would be a threat to more than just Superman, as many rogues are.
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[QUOTE=TheRay;4558111]That is not what I mean and not the point I am going for. It's not about pantheons or even being a God. She would be a threat to more than just Superman, as many rogues are.[/QUOTE]
Then you completely missed the point of this entire thread.
This is about appreciation for Superman's specific rogues gallery, where the villains have their biggest mad-on for the Last Son.
You want his rogues fighting other heroes, this ain't the appreciation thread for that notion.
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[QUOTE=Kuwagaton;4546360]Uh... Satanus would actually be the bigger character, with more appearances and a stronger tie to Superman through Thornton. He also has the potential benefit of absorbing the pre crisis Satanis into himself. Blaze has arguably the better design and a novelty of being a female villain, but taking out Jerry White is out of canon so that's really it for her.
Both could use better names but it's hard to do that and not have it look like a new character. Might as well make a new one.[/QUOTE]
Exactly how big a deal is Satanus's alter ego Thornton? Nothing that Blaze couldn't absorb and transform into "Angelica Thornton".
Would "Lady Blaze Satanus" aka "Angelica Thornton" be a good way to merge the two while emphasizing the female aspect?
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Name your top 5 Superman-
specific rogues who absolutely need some TLC in the hands of a capable writer:
Mine:
5. Maxima
4. Parasite
3. Metallo
2. Mongul
1. Faora (the sociopathic lone, not Zod's associate)
Yours?
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4558219]Exactly how big a deal is Satanus's alter ego Thornton? Nothing that Blaze couldn't absorb and transform into "Angelica Thornton".
Would "Lady Blaze Satanus" aka "Angelica Thornton" be a good way to merge the two while emphasizing the female aspect?[/QUOTE]
I think that would work, but I'd rather leave both villains as they are, and just give them some TLC. A sibling duo of demon lords is a pretty cool idea and it helps set them apart from other demons like Neron, Trigon, etc.
[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4568834]Name your top 5 Superman-
specific rogues who absolutely need some TLC in the hands of a capable writer:
Mine:
5. Maxima
4. Parasite
3. Metallo
2. Mongul
1. Faora (the sociopathic lone, not Zod's associate)
Yours?[/QUOTE]
1. Metallo. He's got a solid archetype, a solid design, and a cool hook with the kryptonite heart and his hate/rivalry with Lex. But he's never been anything more than an also-ran villain who's known primarily just because he's persistent.
2. Parasite. Same with Metallo; this dude could and should be a major player, but he lacks defining stories to elevate him.
3. Silver Banshee. This villain has been around for a while but has never seemed to find a niche within the Super-verse to call her own. She's tightly tied to Irish folklore and myth, and I feel like maybe there's an avenue to compare that with Krypton's mythology maybe, but no one has figured out a solid angle for her.
4. Solaris the Tyrant Sun. He's had two stories. That's it! And they were both amazing (DC 1 Million and All-Star). Does Morrison own this villain? Is that the reason no one else will touch him? Because Solaris is probably the coolest Super rogue to debut in the last twenty-thirty years. Shame he's not getting more (any) use.
5. Livewire. I think there's a lot of potential here. Her shock jock thing compares well with Clark's more traditional, "just the facts" journalism, and Livewire helps give voice to the people who don't adore Superman and that can open doors for a lot of different stories. But no one really seems to know how she fits into the mythos and tend to use her as a Supergirl villain.
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1: Blackrock, Wasn't very interesting until the New Earth version added the twist that the Blackrock is an alien life form that bonds with people. That made for a REALLY interesting villain.
2: Metallo's main problem is that he's a super-mook. But having him as a heavy hitter in a villain team would work well. Which he's done, more than once IIRC.
3: Parasite is also weird because while he's VERY dangerous, you have to figure out why he's here...
4: Assorted other Kryptonians. I LOVE stories where Superman has to deal with other Kryptonians. Zod, Ursa, Non, Car-Vex, Faora, Hu-Ul, Nadira Va-Dim, Az-Rel.... It's a LONG list, most of them minor characters who we barely got to meet.
5: Livewire, Also, since Livewire's not exactly a hardcore villain, having her sometimes help people when it suits her is fine.
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Let's look at the evil / antagonist Kryptonians, usually in the Phantom Zone.
How many have there been for Superman to fight?
Dru-Zod, Ursa, Lor-Zod, Non, Faora, Nam-Ek, Jax-Ur, Car-Vex, Xa-Du, Cythonna, etc.
What distinguishes them from each other?
Is this a vast untapped treasure trove of villainy?
Or is this more the Ninja paradox, where 1 Ninja is high- unstoppable to the hero, but 100 ninjas are just fodder to the hero?
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4558214]Then you completely missed the point of this entire thread.
[/QUOTE]
Um actually, I think you just misinterpreted what my meaning is.
Also, you can respect a character's rogues and want to see them fighting others. It's probably more respectful to say that they would make for interesting stories outside of where they are traditionally.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4573377]Let's look at the evil / antagonist Kryptonians, usually in the Phantom Zone.
How many have there been for Superman to fight?
Dru-Zod, Ursa, Lor-Zod, Non, Faora, Nam-Ek, Jax-Ur, Car-Vex, Xa-Du, Cythonna, etc.
What distinguishes them from each other?
Is this a vast untapped treasure trove of villainy?
Or is this more the Ninja paradox, where 1 Ninja is high- unstoppable to the hero, but 100 ninjas are just fodder to the hero?[/QUOTE]Actually Superman never fought Car-Vex. I'm not sure he even MET her. The point is that they don't have the same goals and motives. Car-Vex's death... while at the end of a brutal massacre, was kinda like a heroic sacrifice. She's nominally a villain, thus why she chose to rip apart General Lane's men like they were cardboard standees, but she died trying to save other Kryptonians.
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[QUOTE=Lex Luthor;4579947]I really like Intergang.[/QUOTE]
Intergang is great, even vital to the Superverse mythos, IMHO. Metropolis shouldn't become a complete utopia after Superman's arrival. Organized crime would adapt and evolve. Not all, or even most, criminals become supervillains.
If there was a way to remove Darkseid and the Fourth World from Intergang (replace with Mongul and Warworld as the supplier?), it would be perfect.
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Still hoping the “Invisible War” coming in Action Comics will involve the Invisible Mafia vs Intergang.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4583763]Intergang is great, even vital to the Superverse mythos, IMHO. Metropolis shouldn't become a complete utopia after Superman's arrival. Organized crime would adapt and evolve. Not all, or even most, criminals become supervillains.
If there was a way to remove Darkseid and the Fourth World from Intergang (replace with Mongul and Warworld as the supplier?), it would be perfect.[/QUOTE]Intergang works as a concept even if it's Lexcorp weaponry IMO.
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[QUOTE=marhawkman;4587924]Intergang works as a concept even if it's Lexcorp weaponry IMO.[/QUOTE]
They can have multiple sources of weaponry.
[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4583763]Intergang is great, even vital to the Superverse mythos, IMHO. Metropolis shouldn't become a complete utopia after Superman's arrival. Organized crime would adapt and evolve. Not all, or even most, criminals become supervillains.
If there was a way to remove Darkseid and the Fourth World from Intergang (replace with Mongul and Warworld as the supplier?), it would be perfect.[/QUOTE]
I like the white collar crime aspect of them. It interesting and I think that sort of criminal suits Superman and Metropolis more than street crime.
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[QUOTE=Lex Luthor;4588356]They can have multiple sources of weaponry. [/quote] quite true :D
[quote]I like the white collar crime aspect of them. It interesting and I think that sort of criminal suits Superman and Metropolis more than street crime.[/QUOTE]Yeah, "petty theft" is just so.... mundane. You have cops in power-armor, and hover-cars, crime needs to be interesting.
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[QUOTE=marhawkman;4570116]1: Blackrock, Wasn't very interesting until the New Earth version added the twist that the Blackrock is an alien life form that bonds with people. That made for a REALLY interesting villain.
2: Metallo's main problem is that he's a super-mook. But having him as a heavy hitter in a villain team would work well. Which he's done, more than once IIRC.
3: Parasite is also weird because while he's VERY dangerous, you have to figure out why he's here...
4: Assorted other Kryptonians. I LOVE stories where Superman has to deal with other Kryptonians. Zod, Ursa, Non, Car-Vex, Faora, Hu-Ul, Nadira Va-Dim, Az-Rel.... It's a LONG list, most of them minor characters who we barely got to meet.
5: Livewire, Also, since Livewire's not exactly a hardcore villain, having her sometimes help people when it suits her is fine.[/QUOTE]
Why does every female villain that gets any name recognition, have to be an antihero? I don’t see any reason to make Livewire an antihero.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4573377]Let's look at the evil / antagonist Kryptonians, usually in the Phantom Zone.
Is this a vast untapped treasure trove of villainy?
Or is this more the Ninja paradox, where 1 Ninja is high- unstoppable to the hero, but 100 ninjas are just fodder to the hero?[/QUOTE]
I think it's both. I think its a vast trove of villainy, but also a ninja paradox.
Like, we've seen several stories about the Phantom King where he ruins Clark's whole day by himself, yet when Clark was in the Zone recently, he dealt with all the inmates at once and lived to tell the tale.
I am definitely all about getting more mileage out of the Zone inmates, but it might be better to deal with them one (or two) at a time, instead of trying to involve everyone who ever showed up between the Silver Age and now.
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[QUOTE=Ascended;4590600]I think it's both. I think its a vast trove of villainy, but also a ninja paradox.
Like, we've seen several stories about the Phantom King where he ruins Clark's whole day by himself, yet when Clark was in the Zone recently, he dealt with all the inmates at once and lived to tell the tale.
I am definitely all about getting more mileage out of the Zone inmates, but it might be better to deal with them one (or two) at a time, instead of trying to involve everyone who ever showed up between the Silver Age and now.[/QUOTE]Yeah writers need to avoid the temptation to use ALL the evil Kryptonians at once. It becomes a problem only when there's multiples at once. But different Kryptonians have different goals and motives for Superman to deal with.[QUOTE=mathew101281;4590503]Why does every female villain that gets any name recognition, have to be an antihero? I don’t see any reason to make Livewire an antihero.[/QUOTE]Well, looking at her specifically, what's her motive as a villain? Her original motive was to annoy Superman. No evil ideals, no sinister hidden motives, heck becoming a supervillain was in some continuities the first crime she ever committed. So the question is not "why have a villain become a hero/anti-hero?" Rather, "why is this character defined as a villain at all?"
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Itd be neat if a villain escaped the Phantom Zone only to have some kind of genetic defect where he cant actually turn sunlight into superpowers so has to use his advanced intellect yo create a anti superman plot.
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Ok, here is one that seems like a winner in the right hands:
[IMG]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/6/61/Action_Comics_Vol_1_502.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081231152041[/IMG]
[IMG]https://images-nitrosell-com.akamaized.net/product_images/14/3286/DCD364466.jpg[/IMG]
The Galactic Golem.
Give my your best "elevator pitch" for this guy as a prominent member of the Super Rogues.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4593112]Ok, here is one that seems like a winner in the right hands:
[IMG]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/6/61/Action_Comics_Vol_1_502.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081231152041[/IMG]
[IMG]https://images-nitrosell-com.akamaized.net/product_images/14/3286/DCD364466.jpg[/IMG]
The Galactic Golem.
Give my your best "elevator pitch" for this guy as a prominent member of the Super Rogues.[/QUOTE]
Once I finish my Busiek reread I’ll let you know! Personally I’ve always figured he works better as a “Celestial” type enemy. You have no clue what he wants or why he does what he does but he’s obscenely powerful and Supes can’t beat him, he can just get him to move on.
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I think you could do two things with the Golem.
One, you treat him as a plot device; the story doesn't move around him but who is *controlling* him. Like the Destroyer from Thor comics, the Golem is a mindless engine of mass destruction with no free will of its own. You can get tons of stories out of this. For example: Almerac, Thanagar, and the Dominion race to get the key to controlling the Golem, threatening galactic war. Or a little boy finds the key and uses the Golem as his "best friend" and Clark has to get it away from the kid without endangering the town. Or Clark finds himself up against an impossibly strong foe (Darkseid, in his seat of power on Apokolips? Barbatos? Satanus and Blaze? Whoever!) and has to use the Golem himself to help win the fight.
Tons of options if you treat the Golem as a weapon to be used rather than a character unto itself.
My other idea is this: The Galactic Golem is Kismet's brother. Allied with the Lords of Order and the representation of inanimate objects; the Golem is the OG "immovable object." He ensures the fundamental building blocks of creation don't drift out of place. The Daxamite scientist Busiek credited for creating the Golem didn't invent anything, he just pulled the Golem into our reality. And the Golem has decided everything in reality moves too much, it all needs to stop and stand still. Like so many other entities aligned with the Lords of Order the Golem has deviated from its purpose, become gluttonous, and wants everything in creation to adhere to the Golem's own purpose and responsibilities.
Basically the Golem wants to freeze everything in place. Puts him in strong conflict with Superman, the Man of Action, who's always on the move. So we've got that old "immovable object/unstoppable force" thing going on, which is always a fun theme to explore. We've got ties to Super-centric figures like Kismet as well as DCU-wide concepts like the Lords of Order. And we've got a chance to explore and define the "Celestial" side of DC more, get into how these guys function in the cosmology and where they fit in relation to the Lords of Order/Chaos, the sphere of gods, etc etc.
Maybe if you really want to show how dangerous the Golem is, you bring back Imperiex; another Celestial cosmic manifestation, to team up with Clark and Kismet in taking him down.
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[QUOTE=Ascended;4595467]I think you could do two things with the Golem.
[b]One, you treat him as a plot device; the story doesn't move around him but who is *controlling* him. Like the Destroyer from Thor comics, the Golem is a mindless engine of mass destruction with no free will of its own. You can get tons of stories out of this. For example: Almerac, Thanagar, and the Dominion race to get the key to controlling the Golem, threatening galactic war. Or a little boy finds the key and uses the Golem as his "best friend" and Clark has to get it away from the kid without endangering the town. Or Clark finds himself up against an impossibly strong foe (Darkseid, in his seat of power on Apokolips? Barbatos? Satanus and Blaze? Whoever!) and has to use the Golem himself to help win the fight.
Tons of options if you treat the Golem as a weapon to be used rather than a character unto itself. [/b]
My other idea is this: The Galactic Golem is Kismet's brother. Allied with the Lords of Order and the representation of inanimate objects; the Golem is the OG "immovable object." He ensures the fundamental building blocks of creation don't drift out of place. The Daxamite scientist Busiek credited for creating the Golem didn't invent anything, he just pulled the Golem into our reality. And the Golem has decided everything in reality moves too much, it all needs to stop and stand still. Like so many other entities aligned with the Lords of Order the Golem has deviated from its purpose, become gluttonous, and wants everything in creation to adhere to the Golem's own purpose and responsibilities.
Basically the Golem wants to freeze everything in place. Puts him in strong conflict with Superman, the Man of Action, who's always on the move. So we've got that old "immovable object/unstoppable force" thing going on, which is always a fun theme to explore. We've got ties to Super-centric figures like Kismet as well as DCU-wide concepts like the Lords of Order. And we've got a chance to explore and define the "Celestial" side of DC more, get into how these guys function in the cosmology and where they fit in relation to the Lords of Order/Chaos, the sphere of gods, etc etc.
Maybe if you really want to show how dangerous the Golem is, you bring back Imperiex; another Celestial cosmic manifestation, to team up with Clark and Kismet in taking him down.[/QUOTE]
I really, really like that 1st option. Mainly because I don't think Superman has anything else remotely like Thor's Destroyer in his rogues gallery. And also, as you eloquently pointed out, tons of non-contrived repeat usage available with this route.
The 2nd option isn't bad, it's just ... DC isn't nearly as good with cosmic entities as Marvel is. And Kismet isn't exactly in Eternity's league (though they did weirdly make out in one of those Marvel/DC crossovers).
Having never read a Galactic Golem story yet, did the character ever exhibit a distinct personality of its own? Or does GG fall more toward the Doomsday end of the emotional spectrum?
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4596567]I really, really like that 1st option. Mainly because I don't think Superman has anything else remotely like Thor's Destroyer in his rogues gallery. And also, as you eloquently pointed out, tons of non-contrived repeat usage available with this route.[/QUOTE]
I actually think Doomsday can work in this sort of role, especially the "virus" version from the New52. There's a mountain of things you can do there; Intergang tries to sell a vial of Doomsday virus on the black market, Clark crash lands on a planet where the virus ran rampant, the Planet staff gets infected, etc. And you can always just use Doomsday as a giant monster for Clark to fight of course.
If I ever worked for DC, this is the Doomsday I'd want to use. Infinitely superior to the previous version, with far more utility and longevity.
[QUOTE]The 2nd option isn't bad, it's just ... DC isn't nearly as good with cosmic entities as Marvel is. And Kismet isn't exactly in Eternity's league (though they did weirdly make out in one of those Marvel/DC crossovers).[/QUOTE]
That's part of why I cooked this up, actually. DC's cosmic entities aren't as well defined as Marvel's and someone should change that. :D
[QUOTE]Having never read a Galactic Golem story yet, did the character ever exhibit a distinct personality of its own? Or does GG fall more toward the Doomsday end of the emotional spectrum?[/QUOTE]
I haven't actually read one either. Well actually I think I did read at least an issue or two of what Busiek did but I don't remember the details at all. Wiki tells me that the pre-Crisis version, in his later appearances, did have some kind of intellect, but originally, and in Busiek's post-Crisis, it sounds like it was largely just a mindless monster fueled by animal instinct instead of reason. But like I said, I haven't really read much with the Golem.
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Like a lot of other hero's rogues galleries, I'd really like to see more villains get a spotlight and build relationships together that aren't Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Doomsday, Zod, Cyborg Superman, and Darkseid. And shown as capable and resourceful on their own (in their own ways and villainy levels) in relation to the aforementioned foes.
Like a lot of heroes, Superman has a sadly small amount of female adversaries, so let's see some interesting stories and relationships between characters and Metropolis or the universe of planets between Volcana, Ursa, La Encantadora, Maxima, Obsession, Syrene, Lady Lunar, etc. I'm also down for making Faora and Zaora distinct characters with separate desires and goals.
I think there's a lot that could be explored with Atomic Skull, Metallo, Atlas, Bloodsport, Toyman, Prankster, Effron, Mister Z., etc.
Silver Banshee and Livewire and Lady Blaze and Lord Satanus and Luminus can also be used in some bigger ways than they usually have.
What would help is also developing Metropolis more than into a handful of locales and industries in the city. Create more breadth of what the city is about within the idea that it's the City of Tomorrow. Show us what that means and how some of these characters might operate within the concept.
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[QUOTE=Ascended;4597032]I actually think Doomsday can work in this sort of role, especially the "virus" version from the New52. There's a mountain of things you can do there; Intergang tries to sell a vial of Doomsday virus on the black market, Clark crash lands on a planet where the virus ran rampant, the Planet staff gets infected, etc. And you can always just use Doomsday as a giant monster for Clark to fight of course.
If I ever worked for DC, this is the Doomsday I'd want to use. Infinitely superior to the previous version, with far more utility and longevity. [/quote]
You're hired!
So, about Doomsday ...
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/93/18/bf/9318bf61adf052c2cfd81983ac268ded.jpg[/IMG]
I gotta admit, outside of its viral incarnation, there is nothing particularly unique or memorable about Doomsday in general. Mindless monsters never did anything for me.
I would definitely give any version of Doomsday a pair of wings and the power of unlimited flight, tho.