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[QUOTE=marhawkman;4526093]Also, you have to remember that it's only true in hindsight after decades of attrition where the less interesting characters got killed off or ignored by later writers. Well, when people hang out with Superman too much.... this happens:
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/4/47/Livewire_New_Costume.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110512220919[/img]
No that's NOT the only time. Well, it's the only time one of them wore THAT costume, but not the only time that he's talked his enemies into becoming allies.[/QUOTE]
Y'know, I like villains doing a face-turn exactly as much as I like heroes doing a heel-turn: I don't like it at all, unless this change immediately results in that character's last usage, i.e. death.
And Livewire never seemed like a strong enough foe for Supes, either in the mental or physical departments.
This brings up another point for the Superverse villains: are some of (ostensibly) Superman's villains better-suited as primary foes of Supergirl, Steel, Conner, with Superman a secondary target?
I can't find a good Livewire vs Superman fight where one of them doesn't look stupid. But I did somewhat like her appearances on SUPERGIRL and DC SUPER-HERO GIRLS.
I'd say both her and Silver Banshee can go to Kara first, and Kal second.
And the Prankster should a primary foe of Lois Lane.
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Livewire has a great showing against Supes in Superman Adventures. And I’m not at all in favor of poaching Superman Rogues and giving them to other characters. It’s on the writer to make the villains work.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;4530580]Livewire has a great showing against Supes in Superman Adventures. And I’m not at all in favor of poaching Superman Rogues and giving them to other characters. It’s on the writer to make the villains work.[/QUOTE]Also, I think other heroes deserve their own villains instead of hand-me-downs.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4428733]I'm fascinated by Cythonna.
[/QUOTE]
Comic Vine says she was at least mentioned in Hawkman #8.
As a God, she feels more suited to being a Wonder Woman rogue in my opinion.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4530469]Y'know, I like villains doing a face-turn exactly as much as I like heroes doing a heel-turn: I don't like it at all, unless this change immediately results in that character's last usage, i.e. death.
And Livewire never seemed like a strong enough foe for Supes, either in the mental or physical departments.[/quote]You should watch the original version. The original comics version was pretty close to this. She can zap Supes hard enough that it actually hurts. Her reflexes are faster than most non Kryptonians. Supes had to rely on his super-speed to keep up with her. Then there's the fact she can become living energy and travel through electrical wiring. Oh and she has a super sense. She can hear electromagnetic waves. Yeah that radio headset you're using? Yeah, Leslie can listen to everything you say. Heck in the Collector story in the comics Mr. Terrific figures out a way to use Leslie's body as a radio transceiver. Leslie found this a bit weird since it meant not actually controlling what her powers did.
That's a LOT of things Superman can't do. So what if she can't punch him hard enough to knock him out?
[quote]This brings up another point for the Superverse villains: are some of (ostensibly) Superman's villains better-suited as primary foes of Supergirl, Steel, Conner, with Superman a secondary target?[/QUOTE]To me, assigning villain arbitrarily is dumb. It's a fictional universe with fictional people doing things for reasons. Superman fights Lex more often than other heroes because A: Lex goes after him, and B: he's better at it than most. Either you have a story reason for a villain to be associated with a hero, or you don't treat them as a personal villain.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;4530580]Livewire has a great showing against Supes in Superman Adventures. And I’m not at all in favor of poaching Superman Rogues and giving them to [b]other[/b] characters. It’s on the writer to make the villains work.[/QUOTE]
It's not poaching if it stays within the same franchise (Superverse) and the original animosity (i.e. btw Supes and LW) can still happen as needed. One of the few surprises on the CW SUPERGIRL tv show was how natural an antagonist Livewire was to Kara.
And it's not on the writers to make new villains when they rarely recieved proper compensation for their efforts.
Anyway, Livewire ain't leaving the Superverse in any case. I just do not see her as a worthy direct foe for a non-PIS Superman (as she has been presented so far).
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[QUOTE=TheRay;4530746]Comic Vine says she was at least mentioned in Hawkman #8.
[B]As a God, she feels more suited to being a Wonder Woman rogue in my opinion.[/b][/QUOTE]
Now THIS would be poaching. And I completely disagree. Cythonna is a god of and from Krypton. Superman definitely and rightfully claims her as part of his rogues gallery.
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[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;4542367]It's not poaching if it stays within the same franchise (Superverse) and the original animosity (i.e. btw Supes and LW) can still happen as needed. One of the few surprises on the CW SUPERGIRL tv show was how natural an antagonist Livewire was to Kara.
And it's not on the writers to make new villains when they rarely recieved proper compensation for their efforts.
Anyway, Livewire ain't leaving the Superverse in any case. I just do not see her as a worthy direct foe for a non-PIS Superman (as she has been presented so far).[/QUOTE]Good writing will make pretty much any foe feel like a natural antagonist. Why is Steel fighting a dragon in a medieval village? The story is why it makes sense.
Livewire is a powerful foe for different reasons than Doomsday. She has powers Superman can't counter directly at all. In some ways this is worse than being stronger. But she's not always a direct threat to Superman. She can make his life hell in ways not related to trying to kill him. For example: Livewire's not famous for her hacking skills, but her powers let her hack almost any computer. Super-hacking is not a power Kryptonians have. They can do super-fast typing, and have enhanced intelligence, but can that beat someone who can literally possess computers?
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[QUOTE=marhawkman;4543137]Good writing will make pretty much any foe feel like a natural antagonist. Why is Steel fighting a dragon in a medieval village? The story is why it makes sense.
Livewire is a powerful foe for different reasons than Doomsday. She has powers Superman can't counter directly at all. In some ways this is worse than being stronger. But she's not always a direct threat to Superman. She can make his life hell in ways not related to trying to kill him. For example: Livewire's not famous for her hacking skills, but her powers let her hack almost any computer. Super-hacking is not a power Kryptonians have. They can do super-fast typing, and have enhanced intelligence, but can that beat someone who can literally possess computers?[/QUOTE]
Alright, you know what? Maybe you ARE right. The hacking of computers IS a newer angle that could be better utilized. I've just never been impressed with either her origin, personality or motivations. But that can change with the right set of writers.
Moving on ...
Blaze:
[IMG]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/9/90/Blaze_02.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091015061854[/IMG]
Or, as her slightly more copyrightable name, Lady Blaze:
[IMG]https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/24019/736587-lady_blaze__queen_of_hell.jpg[/IMG]
In case you haven't noticed, I have a soft spot for memorably evil (irredeemable) female villains, because they're so few and almost invariably become bad girls with good hearts (see: Poison Ivy AND Harley Quinn).
Not this lady. She is EVIL.
There is something ... especially appealing to me for Superman to be fighting infernal villains. It's just not his normal wheelhouse, so having a worthy one is a big deal.
I love Lady Blaze. I hate that the Shazamverse temporarily poached her (thankfully, I think her involvement there has been since retconned).
When did she last show up? What was her last interaction with Superman?
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Feel like last time she showed up was the Loeb Era.
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Ok, now this is a GREAT candidate for merging (in- universe, no retcon needed):
Lady Blaze and her brother Lord Satanus.
[IMG]https://babblingsaboutdccomics4.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/advs_493_004.png[/IMG]
Sibling pairs (as superheroes [b]or[/b] supervillains) generally suck. They're either an inescapably lame package (see Wonder Twins) or one is clearly superior to the other (see the Maximoff twins).
I feel Blaze and Satanus are the 2nd scenario. Blaze has more star villainy potential than her brother, who just comes off as the bigger straight-up knockoff of Mephisto.
Blaze should literally devour Satanus and gain whatever useful skills and/or memories he had. One less redundancy in the Superverse.
And bring back her human guise of Angelica Blaze and plop her butt into Metropolis as one of those corrupt "mega-churchey" style speakers leading souls astray.
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Satanus is such a dumb name that I can’t help but agree we’d be fine with ditching him.
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Uh... Satanus would actually be the bigger character, with more appearances and a stronger tie to Superman through Thornton. He also has the potential benefit of absorbing the pre crisis Satanis into himself. Blaze has arguably the better design and a novelty of being a female villain, but taking out Jerry White is out of canon so that's really it for her.
Both could use better names but it's hard to do that and not have it look like a new character. Might as well make a new one.
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[QUOTE=Kuwagaton;4546360]Uh... Satanus would actually be the bigger character, with more appearances and a stronger tie to Superman through Thornton. He also has the potential benefit of absorbing the pre crisis Satanis into himself. Blaze has arguably the better design and a novelty of being a female villain, but taking out Jerry White is out of canon so that's really it for her.
Both could use better names but it's hard to do that and not have it look like a new character. Might as well make a new one.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they could just do a fusion dance. Is Satanus really a bigger character nowadays? I doubt most people would even know what his deal is.
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I had an argument recently with someone who said Superman villains were kind of silly.. implying they weren't as good as other superheroes rogue galleries..
It made me so angry because it's a big lie, I really fail to see HOW are Batman and Spiderman villains less silly than villains like Doomsday, Brainiac or Bizarro. Seriously, wtf, this is so unfair and untrue. :mad:
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDepf9iVAAA9fY2?format=jpg&name=900x900[/IMG]