What threat does he actually pose to Krakoa? Hes mostly always stayed out of mutant business. And for good reasons.
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What threat does he actually pose to Krakoa? Hes mostly always stayed out of mutant business. And for good reasons.
I hope I'm wrong, but I predict the X-Men will extend their offer of Krakoa to Franklin and Franklin escalates the conflict by whining about how powerless he is and how he used to be a god.
Doom is an irrelevant has-been.
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4702009]Doom is an irrelevant has-been.[/QUOTE]
I liked him best when he was trying to be Iron Man. I like seeing egomaniacs struggle to control their own worst impulses.
[QUOTE=king of hybrids;4700492]On its own it was just shade, but in the context that Xavier has wanted Franklin for a while and tried to, you know, kill them on the issue before; it’s definitely a threat[/QUOTE]
????? Xavier tried killing the F4 in the previous issue....????? What... where do you get this stuff
[QUOTE=PeterParked;4700817]The idea that they will aggressively try to take Franklin from them it’s ridiculous, they are not villains. And why mutants should decline to go to Krakoa because of ties with other human when they can instantly go wherever they want and meet these humans through a flower portal or plain invite them to Krakoa for a visit? This idea that going to Krakoa means isolating themselves from the world is absurd, only a few selected people are allowed in my house but I am not isolated from the world, in fact I meet strangers and new people constantly. That Krakoa is for mutants means that humans can’t take a plane or boat and just land to island not that no human is allowed to visit Krakoa.[/QUOTE]
... except it's blatantly clear pretty much all the mutants in Krakoa DO live there. And are not simply visiting. If they show mutants visit and go back then fine but right now it feels very much like Krakoa is a "mutant homeland" and mutants go there literally to demarcate a point in their lives away from humankind. It's also seemingly a fact that the very existence of Krakoa has made mutants who DON'T reside there much less secure among humanity, giving them further incentive to want to move to Krakoa.
[QUOTE=PeterParked;4701289]I wasn’t talking about Franklin, the poster I was replying to said he was weird there weren’t more mutants refusing to live on Krakoa because they also have human connections. I was highlighting how they can live in Krakoa and have human connections because they can literally go to them instantaneously with a portal or have them on Krakoa instantenously trough a portal. I don’t think at all Franklin will move to Krakoa, for the simple fact that he is an active character in FF and if they were planning to move him, even temporarily, with the mutants, that would have been covered first in the FF book by Dan Slott and not in a miniseries by an unrelated writer. That said, a reason for Franklin wanting to move to Krakoa is that in the FF book now is going through a teenager rebellion phase, so he could pull a “I want to go to live with the cool uncles because I hate you”. But again, if it was to happen it would happen in the main FF book.[/QUOTE]
Hmm. This is a bit too meta and cynical, you should have open mind more to experience a story's potential. I think maybe this big change COULD get introduced in this crossover.
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4702009]Doom is an irrelevant has-been.[/QUOTE]
Yikes, but you speak truth....
Wonder if Franklin remembers creepy little Charles and alludes to the messed up period that was Onslaught. :p
[QUOTE=The Quiet Councilor;4701489]Ooooo, we love receipts.[/QUOTE]
yes beloved. that is the only way to do it.
[QUOTE=tuck frump;4701493]What threat does he actually pose to Krakoa? Hes mostly always stayed out of mutant business. And for good reasons.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but that was before, Krakoa has changed the game for the first time ever the mutants are a legitimate superpower on the World Stage. That gives Hickman the perfect opportunity to create conflict with Nations like Latveria and Wakanda.
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4702009]Doom is an irrelevant has-been.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I guess that's why he has his own solo series again that's actually doing quite well so far. And there wouldn't be a new version of Earth for anyone if Doom hadn't succeeded where the Illuminati failed. I didn't see the mutants come up with any plans for handling the incursions and the Beyonders.
[QUOTE=tuck frump;4701493]What threat does he actually pose to Krakoa? Hes mostly always stayed out of mutant business. And for good reasons.[/QUOTE]
Considering the kind of luck the mutants have had before (Genosha anyone?) I'd say just about anyone with political acumen could bring it all down. It will be interesting to see if Hickman decides to bring Doom into all this but right now Doom's pretty much tied up in his own series right now.
[QUOTE=tuck frump;4701493]What threat does he actually pose to Krakoa? Hes mostly always stayed out of mutant business. And for good reasons.[/QUOTE]
Let me put it like this. Mutants have attempted nation states before and it usually ends in genocide, it remains to be seen if Krakoa will be any different. Meanwhile, Doom has successfully maintained Latveria as an independent kingdom for virtually the entire existence of Marvel comics. Other tyrants eventually fall and even the grandest utopias collapse under their own weight but there is always Latveria and there is always Doom. It would be unwise to underestimate him.
[QUOTE=Kintor;4703078]Let me put it like this. Mutants have attempted nation states before and it usually ends in genocide, it remains to be seen if Krakoa will be any different. Meanwhile, Doom has successfully maintained Latveria as an independent kingdom for virtually the entire existence of Marvel comics. Other tyrants eventually fall and even the grandest utopias collapse under their own weight but there is always Latveria and there is always Doom. It would be unwise to underestimate him.[/QUOTE]
Lmao it's Latveria. Nothing to write home about.
It's like bragging about owning NK. It's destitute and ruled by a delusional dictator that steals the daughters of his poor citizens
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4703085]Lmao it's Latveria. Nothing to write home about.
It's like bragging about owning NK. It's destitute and ruled by a delusional dictator that steals the daughters of his poor citizens[/QUOTE]
Latveria was a backwards country until Doom transformed it single handedly into a world power. And it is no longer destitute as you claim. General Karadick was removed from office and Doom returned to the throne.
Even though he didn't launch them, Latveria has missiles that can hit a target with dead on precision on the Moon. Don't know if he still has them but as far back as Claremont's Fantastic Four, he had Hammer of God missiles that could travel at near light speed. But considering that they reached the Moon rather quickly, they must be high velocity.
I expect things won't go well for Krakoa and I don't doubt it will all go to hell in a handbasket eventually. It will be Genosha II. that's just how the mutants roll... they will start fighting among themselves
[QUOTE=Iron Maiden;4703031]Yeah, I guess that's why he has his own solo series again that's actually doing quite well so far. And there wouldn't be a new version of Earth for anyone if Doom hadn't succeeded where the Illuminati failed. I didn't see the mutants come up with any plans for handling the incursions and the Beyonders.
Considering the kind of luck the mutants have had before (Genosha anyone?) I'd say just about anyone with political acumen could bring it all down. It will be interesting to see if Hickman decides to bring Doom into all this but right now Doom's pretty much tied up in his own series right now.[/QUOTE]
No there wouldn't be a new version of Earth if MM didn't hold Dooms hand through the incursions and give him the powers of god so he could make his little patchwork planet.
Franklin saved the multiverse. Doom was limited in scope and vision so he couldn't see past his own shallow desires to be "god" and his weird and long overdone obsession with Susan Richards.
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4703123]No there wouldn't be a new version of Earth if MM didn't hold Dooms hand through the incursions and give him the powers of god so he could make his little patchwork planet.
Franklin saved the multiverse. Doom was limited in scope and vision so he couldn't see past his own shallow desires to be "god" and his weird and long overdone obsession with Susan Richards.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, attempting to restore the multiverse was a bad decision. It just creates too many new variables that you can't see or control. Then it's only a matter of time before something gains power in one of those universes and subsequently invades the prime universe causing untold collateral damage as a result. As is the case with Franklin Richards, the new multiverse only spawned a reality devouring villain in the Greiver. I mean, at least Doom managed to hold everything together and had the good sense not to cause further problems by introducing new wildcard universes that have no right to exist.
But I suppose that’s all beside the point. The X-Men have more immediate problems if they want to survive even 2020 in the prime Marvel universe. Picking fights with powerful nations like Latveria is a war that Krakoa can ill afford.
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4703123]No there wouldn't be a new version of Earth if MM didn't hold Dooms hand through the incursions and give him the powers of god so he could make his little patchwork planet.
Franklin saved the multiverse. Doom was limited in scope and vision so he couldn't see past his own shallow desires to be "god" and his weird and long overdone obsession with Susan Richards.[/QUOTE]
Franklin wouldn't even have had any thing to save in the first place. His life raft didn't survive in the chaos of the final incursion. He's not brought back until the Molecule Man gives the powers over to Reed.
Doom didn't have anyone with Franklin's powers. Doctor Strange certainly didn't so they got by with what they had. The flashbacks describe that things were still very chaotic for some years after Battleworld was formed. Once things has settled to a new norm, it did give Doom time for some reflection and he had come to realize that he was not a perfect god and was considering stepping away controlling it all, which he had already began to relinquish to Stephen anyway.
[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/poG9awfYj][IMG]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/G9awfY.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Molecule Man and the Mad Thinker were tools to help put the puzzle together certainly. But Molecule Man could not have done what Doom did because MM himself was the booby trap set by the Beyonders. To paraphrase Doom he had to become a serial killer of the same man many times over. The Illuminati were thinking too small by handling the incursions after they had begun. Doom figured out that the Beyonders could only move forward in time so he went back in time as part of the plan. No one else, not even The Illuminati never found the source. In the end, their only plan was to save a few dozen people or so in 2 life raft ships and even that didn't work out.
Finally, it is true that he did make a version of Susan his wife but I think it was not just an obsession with her and it was larger than that. Doom lost his family at a young age and was envious of the normalcy of Reed's life.
Am I the only one more puzzled by the lack of knowing where Artie and Leech are and if the FF have them why Scott is not showing more interest in his former charges?
[QUOTE=cranger;4705978]Am I the only one more puzzled by the lack of knowing where Artie and Leech are and if the FF have them why Scott is not showing more interest in his former charges?[/QUOTE]
They are with the Future Foundation.
[QUOTE=cranger;4705978]Am I the only one more puzzled by the lack of knowing where Artie and Leech are and if the FF have them why Scott is not showing more interest in his former charges?[/QUOTE]
Archie is depowered. Xavier is going to kill him now.
[QUOTE=Veitha;4706036]Archie is depowered. Xavier is going to kill him now.[/QUOTE]
It'd be for the best tho don't ya think?
[QUOTE=tuck frump;4701493]What threat does he actually pose to Krakoa? Hes mostly always stayed out of mutant business. And for good reasons.[/QUOTE]
He never cared about mutants for the same reason evveryone else didn't. They were unorganised and posed little threat to anyone's plans. If they interfere with the FF4 (particularly Valeria) that might change in a heartbeat.
And remember Doom is a serious danger. He created cannons that took down Galactus, and is able to alter the current timeline with his time machines. He can destroy Krakao by going back in time and kicking Xavier's dad in the balls.
The evil version of Clyde Wyndcham, an omega reality warping mutant, stated that Doom had more potential than he did. This was a guy that destroyed entire Earths for fun.
If Doom is motivated, and has prep-time, he will probably break Krakao like a twig.
[QUOTE=Runarc;4706043]
If Doom is motivated, and has prep-time, he will probably break Krakao like a twig.
[/QUOTE]
Good thing they can just grow another Branch
[QUOTE=Runarc;4706043]He never cared about mutants for the same reason evveryone else didn't. They were unorganised and posed little threat to anyone's plans. If they interfere with the FF4 (particularly Valeria) that might change in a heartbeat.
And remember Doom is a serious danger. He created cannons that took down Galactus, and is able to alter the current timeline with his time machines. He can destroy Krakao by going back in time and kicking Xavier's dad in the balls.
The evil version of Clyde Wyndcham, an omega reality warping mutant, stated that Doom had more potential than he did. This was a guy that destroyed entire Earths for fun.
If Doom is motivated, and has prep-time, he will probably break Krakao like a twig.[/QUOTE]
Considering the resources that krakoa has they are very easily on equal footing with doom. And if things go south for mutants all Moira has to do is reset the timeline and try it over again.
There are several mutants on that island that can pose a serious threat to Doom. If they were to go to war (which I don't see happening) anything less than a mutually assured destruction would be bs.
[QUOTE=Runarc;4706043]He never cared about mutants for the same reason evveryone else didn't. They were unorganised and posed little threat to anyone's plans. If they interfere with the FF4 (particularly Valeria) that might change in a heartbeat.
And remember Doom is a serious danger. He created cannons that took down Galactus, and is able to alter the current timeline with his time machines. He can destroy Krakao by going back in time and kicking Xavier's dad in the balls.
The evil version of Clyde Wyndcham, an omega reality warping mutant, stated that Doom had more potential than he did. This was a guy that destroyed entire Earths for fun.
If Doom is motivated, and has prep-time, he will probably break Krakao like a twig.[/QUOTE]
Rachel took on Galactus too. Big whoop.
Mutants seemed to be enough of a threat for the Avengers, Osborn, Red Skull to try wiping them out. Maybe he just knows better then almost getting killed by Storm again.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;4706039]It'd be for the best tho don't ya think?[/QUOTE]
Of course. He wouldn't rely on tech to communicate [I]AND[/I] he wouldn't be a flatscan
[QUOTE=tuck frump;4706201]Rachel took on Galactus too. Big whoop.
Mutants seemed to be enough of a threat for the Avengers, Osborn, Red Skull to try wiping them out. Maybe he just knows better then almost getting killed by Storm again.[/QUOTE]
I don't think mutants should underestimate Doom. He's a beast. Last time someone as powerful as Le Fey tried to get at him he just sent her back to prehistoric times.
I like doom but I think he knows better than to try to start a war with mutants. He just recently went after the power of Galactus in FF and despite the home court advantage and a cosmic being he created suee still managed to show his face all over TV and reveal his scars to the world before getting defeated by the FF. There is nothing doom can do that mutants can't with the same prep time but if they truly unleashed the mutants in a no holes barred war and it's written fair latervia is going down.
Didn't he just get shot in his own solo?
[QUOTE=jwatson;4706226]I like doom but I think he knows better than to try to start a war with mutants. He just recently went after the power of Galactus in FF and despite the home court advantage and a cosmic being he created suee still managed to show his face all over TV and reveal his scars to the world before getting defeated by the FF. There is nothing doom can do that mutants can't with the same prep time but if they truly unleashed the mutants in a no holes barred war and it's written fair latervia is going down.
Didn't he just get shot in his own solo?[/QUOTE]
With enough prep he literally became god. One on one Latveria vs Krakoa isn't going to end well for Latveria, but if he starts scheming mutants could be screwed.
[QUOTE=Veitha;4706241]With enough prep he literally became god. [/QUOTE]
Storm's already one
[QUOTE=BroHomo;4706246]Storm's already one[/QUOTE]
More of a One Above All kind of god, not mythological god.
[QUOTE=Veitha;4706223]I don't think mutants should underestimate Doom. He's a beast. Last time someone as powerful as Le Fey tried to get at him he just sent her back to prehistoric times.[/QUOTE]
Didnt he need the Dark Avengers assist for that?
Its irrelevant how potentt he is if facing an entire species of superpowered individuals.
[QUOTE=tuck frump;4706259]Didnt he need the Dark Avengers assist for that?
Its irrelevant how potentt he is if facing an entire species of superpowered individuals.[/QUOTE]
He did because he got ambushed and just got out of HAMMER jail. As soon as he got in control of the situation he won easily.
Of course he won't win in a direct confrontation, but it's not like he'd do that. He's the kind of guy that releases airborne Legacy virus through magic on the island.
[QUOTE=Veitha;4706272]He did because he got ambushed and just got out of HAMMER jail. As soon as he got in control of the situation he won easily.
Of course he won't win in a direct confrontation, but it's not like he'd do that. He's the kind of guy that releases airborne Legacy virus through magic on the island.[/QUOTE]
But prep or not if we are being serious/serious where both are sides are willing to go exactly as far as the other he doesn't stand a chance. You have magneto rip his helmet and armor off and Xavier/Jean reduce his mind to nothing. You don't even need to call in the other big guns. Victor's cunning has always fell victim to who is writing it and what their motivation is. He is capable but in a War far from infallable. Mutants ALWAYS hold back. Always.
Heck now that i think about it all the x-men have to do to win a battle is use their top telepaths to turn the everyday people against the monarchs and governments. They will be so busy dealing with them they won't have time to see what is coming. I think people underestimate the mutants because we know they will never go there.
[QUOTE=jwatson;4706302]But prep or not if we are being serious/serious where both are sides are willing to go exactly as far as the other he doesn't stand a chance. You have magneto rip his helmet and armor off and Xavier/Jean reduce his mind to nothing. You don't even need to call in the other big guns. Victor's cunning has always fell victim to who is writing it and what their motivation is. He is capable but in a War far from infallable. Mutants ALWAYS hold back. Always.[/QUOTE]
I mean, I'm not saying they can't beat him, but he has access to amazing magic and tech, including time travelt tech. Underestimating him would lead to a X-Force like situation.
Have the X-Men forgotten that Doom was actually responsible for M-day, and not Wanda?
[QUOTE=jwatson;4706335]Heck now that i think about it all the x-men have to do to win a battle is use their top telepaths to turn the everyday people against the monarchs and governments. They will be so busy dealing with them they won't have time to see what is coming. I think people underestimate the mutants because we know they will never go there.[/QUOTE]
If they used the telepaths and the Omegas at full power humanity doesn't have a chance if not for deus ex machina technology like an anti Phoenix armor.
[QUOTE=cranger;4706340]Have the X-Men forgotten that Doom was actually responsible for M-day, and not Wanda?[/QUOTE]
Kind of a good point about how far he could go lol
[QUOTE=Veitha;4706339]I mean, I'm not saying they can't beat him, but he has access to amazing magic and tech, including time travelt tech. Underestimating him would lead to a X-Force like situation.[/QUOTE]
Eva Bell could go back in time and kill him like they did Matthew Malloy. Make sure his parents never meet.
[QUOTE=jwatson;4706357]Eva Bell could go back in time and kill him like they did Matthew Malloy. Make sure his parents never meet.[/QUOTE]
That would be insanely risky at best. Doom's been a big part of the marvel universe for a while, no telling what removing him from the past might do.