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[QUOTE=myownlittleusername;4722553]Well, [B][COLOR="#0000FF"]there could have been something to[/COLOR][/B] the "you need to wash yourself" statement, considering both Cyclops and Emma arrived too late to the council meeting at the same time. Would explain Cyclops' embarrassment on being called out and Shaw's amusement (he can read between the lines too).[/QUOTE]
Not really.
It's the "8" following the pattern of "2"/"4"/"6" that had seen those women ripping each other for the entire issue before Emma turned up.
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I think there are two sides to the “I am not happy of this direction” diatribe. Yes people are entitled to an opinion. But when people start posting multiple times in the same thread always repeating themselves they make reading the thread a chore, and they kill the conversation about the story itself. It becomes about the run, the writer or the direction of the line, and necessarily it becomes repetitive: “characters are OOC”, “Hickman dialogue is stiff”, “this book is too plot-driven” repeated ad nauseam.
I believe thread about the story should be about the story not about voicing distress or unhappiness about an entire line of books or a writer. If people really need to voice their unhappiness with this run, why they don’t make an “Unhappy with the Hickman run” thread for that? Nobody would have a problem with that, ti wouldn’t hijack discussion on episodes or arc, or thread with another intention or topic, looks like it would be the smarter solution.
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There is one, and we're trying to make use of it again.
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[QUOTE=PeterParked;4722579]I think there are two sides to the “I am not happy of this direction” diatribe. Yes people are entitled to an opinion. But when people start posting multiple times in the same thread always repeating themselves they make reading the thread a chore, and they kill the conversation about the story itself. It becomes about the run, the writer or the direction of the line, and necessarily it becomes repetitive: [B]“characters are OOC”, “Hickman dialogue is stiff”, “this book is too plot-driven”[/B] repeated ad nauseam.
I believe thread about the story should be about the story not about voicing distress or unhappiness about an entire line of books or a writer. If people really need to voice their unhappiness with this run, why they don’t make an “Unhappy with the Hickman run” thread for that? Nobody would have a problem with that, ti wouldn’t hijack discussion on episodes or arc, or thread with another intention or topic, looks like it would be the smarter solution.[/QUOTE]
Those [I]are[/I] valid criticisms on an issue to issue basis, however, especially in a book where you don't necessarily have an over-arching arc. I do want to reiterate: the dialogue did nothing to further the plot or generate investment, especially in [I]this[/I] issue. The grannies were grating and the jokes drawn out, to the point where you just wind up confused at what they're actually trying to say.
Another thing I'd like to add is that Hickman really needs to learn to write combat situations by the look of it: he needs to make [I]use[/I] of Scott's ability to strategise, old ladies or not, same with other characters. It's like choreography within writing; don't just have them spouting things. Use script-time for [I]action direction.[/I] You can have entire panels dialogue-less if need be just to show Scott dodging a punch or manoeuvring his way around. Have Emma just watch judgementally even! Not everything needs to be a snappy quip that just bogs down what's going on.
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[QUOTE=pkingdom;4722286]Frankly, I do hate a lot of Hickman's writing and direction. A lot of it is 'let's do obvious bad idea, and wait for it to blow up in one of the books in 6 months'. I do post a bit of negativity on the weekly issue pages because I'm don't like the writing that's going on now. Its cathartic, and a lot healthier than just bottling it up and stewing.
But nobody is actively ruining anyone's fun, or trying to say you're terrible or stupid or whatever for liking this. If seeing that people don't like what's going on and are saying why they don't like it is enough to rain on your parade, then that's your problem.
For this issue and run of X-men specifically, its disappointing. I normally love monster of the week stuff, but such big concepts are getting introduced each issue and dropped/ignored the next, its bizarre. Most series would kill to last 12 issues, and Hickman had that just for worldbuilding. He shouldn't need more[/QUOTE]
I think that it should be ready to telling stories than just presenting the new villains and saying goodbye to then on the same issue with a warning "we will see these guys in the future"
Avengers and FF had less of a problem with this, as they were the only books on a aline. Here we have 5 books going on with a overarching story
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Personally I am liking the book. I like the one in done format, I like Hickman mix of light tones for characters and dialogues opposed to the events that are pretty dramatic (Orchis plans in issue 1, the Arakko war coming in issue 2, ecologic terrorists planning human extinction in issue 3). Art is not really my style, I prefer comic artists that are good at showing emotions and movement (Aja, Immonen, Samnee, Rivera and co.) to the old guard cool-looking but unexpressive big stars (like Yu, or even Mc Niven, Chung etc.) but I would say Yu is at least trying, and the coloring helps a bit.
I wouldn’t say Hickman is setting up stories for other books, that’s what he did in HOXPOX, where he set up the new mutant status quo, lot of potential event storylines for the future, and literally all the current books. I think what he is doing with this first arc of done in ones is setting up is X-Men run. HOXPOX was about all the mutants and their world, the mutant government, the resurrection process, the new role for the Hellfire club, Moira’s secret and plan, the world reaction to the new status quo etc. Most of this threads fed other books, Hellfire Club in Marauders, the Phalanx/Cosmic stuff in New Mutants, other will go in future books like the resurrection issues or Moira’s book etc.
Anyway a lot of things happened already, we know Orchis can resurrect people and has possibly new Nimrod plans, Apocalypse is now involved in rescuing Arakko, there is a severe danger to Krakoa survival (as in the island not the government). The Cyclops/Jean/Logan/Emma poly situation keeps being developed, the characters moment in issue 1 were great (Cyclops / Lorna, Cyclops / Corsar).
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I'm not seeing any development on the poly situation, only infantile hints that are getting weaker by every issue
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[QUOTE=spirit2011;4722659]I'm not seeing any development on the poly situation, only infantile hints that are getting weaker by every issue[/QUOTE]
It's gonna turn out that Polaris is actually the mistress.
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The "reason" for not crossing the line being that if it became blatant then the titles must be marked for "explicit content," and X-Men are still "supposed" to be for general readership.
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[QUOTE=Londo Bellian;4722665]The "reason" for not crossing the line being that if it became blatant then the titles must be marked for "explicit content," and X-Men are still "supposed" to be for general readership.[/QUOTE]
Only if they want to show sex scenes. I remember reading batwoman, it was T+ but when they showed a sex scene it was marked mature content.
The awful thing that instead of getting development, we get some nothing
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Well, sex scenes would be the only thing that can be accepted as undeniable confirmation to end the "polyamory-Krakoan-culture thing" deniers.
EDIT: Wording problems. I am Filipino, it's not my native language and it's close to midnight here and I should turn in.
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[QUOTE=Londo Bellian;4722673]Well, sex scenes would be the only thing that can be accepted as confirmation for the polyamory-Krakoan-culture thing deniers.[/QUOTE]
Says who?
1010
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They could show Scott blowing Logan’s back out and some posters would still deny it.
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[QUOTE=Vegan Daddy;4722677]They could show Scott blowing Logan’s back out and some posters would still deny it.[/QUOTE]
Jean can watch and Emma can film?
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[QUOTE=Vegan Daddy;4722677]They could show Scott blowing Logan’s back out and some posters would still deny it.[/QUOTE]
As if they would ever show it
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[QUOTE=spirit2011;4722687]As if they would ever show it[/QUOTE]
Then why are you insisting the poly thing is fake if you understand there are limitations to what they can show?
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[QUOTE=spirit2011;4722687]As if they would ever show it[/QUOTE]
Do you even care what poly what happens so long as Jean isn't in it?
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[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4722695]Do you even care what poly what happens so long as Jean isn't in it?[/QUOTE]
Just a bit, but I'm being realist
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There doesn't need to be panels of someone putting a tip in to see which relationships are what. Go back and look at Whedstonishing or Fract-Men. Bedroom scenes for days.
The relationships are not explicit because Hix is having fun teasing yall before the reveal that Emma and Jean are both dating Scott and Scott is single, like a true badass guy. Lol
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[QUOTE=Kitty&Piotr<3;4722938]There doesn't need to be panels of someone putting a tip in to see which relationships are what. Go back and look at Whedstonishing or Fract-Men. Bedroom scenes for days.
The relationships are not explicit because Hix is having fun teasing yall before the reveal that[b] Emma and Jean are both dating Scott and Scott is single, like a true badass guy[/b]. Lol[/QUOTE]
How this is even possible, Scott is dating two women but he is also single? what kind aof magic is this
I still think he can't do that, but he also want people to talk about it since there isn't much going for the books. X-men #3 could had laid definitive hints, but it is all fans very positive interpretations.
Yeah, they don't need to be explicit. we are sure characters on whedon, fraction had sex
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[QUOTE=Wall-Crawler;4722018]I really don't see what's the problem some guys have with Yu's art, it's great, beautiful to look at.[/QUOTE]
I agree, I don't understand it either
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[QUOTE=9th.;4723020]I agree, I don't understand it either[/QUOTE]
There are times where it's on point and then the rest of the way it looks like clay.
His Emma, Shaw and Scott roast reaction panel was a beaut though.
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[QUOTE=9th.;4723020]I agree, I don't understand it either[/QUOTE]
I just don’t think he and Hickman are complimentary. The art is spartan and sterile and only magnifies the coldness in Hickman’s dialogue and characterization. Hickman needs a Larraz or a Dragotta.
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[QUOTE=loke13;4722510]Hmm I didn't know that's what happened? I admit to being tempted to click into that thread but didn't because as someone who enjoys the new storylines immensely I figured the responses would just annoy me.
And vice versa I've seen posters who've clearly have fundamental issues with DoX come into threads simply to tell people about how "displeased" they were.
At the end if the day though this is a comic book forum where people can freely air their praise or grievance.[/QUOTE]
The mods went through and deleted most of the comments that were obviously trolling, so even if you click through you won't find it. I'm trying to bring the topic back and stay more constructive with it.
More expressive art would really go a long way towards mitigating some of the problems people have with the characters. Some emoting or motion would help the charactierization and dour mood. I'd be happy with something more cartoony like Gurihiru. They would help me take the scenes that are supposed to be joyous more seriously
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Got my copy today. Art continues to be rather iffy, but I've still been really liking every issue of this series so far (though #2 was the weakest).
I love all the new threats being set up. The bitchy echo terrorist Golden Girls were delightful. And while there was no "character development" (whatever that means, most of these characters were invented before we were born, what needs to change at this point exactly?) that doesn't matter because it was a plot driven book. And plot driven books can still have room to utilize established character voices in new situations, which this one did with Scott, Emma and Shaw. So personally I see no reason to criticize it.
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[QUOTE=spirit2011;4723012]How this is even possible, Scott is dating two women but he is also single? what kind aof magic is this
[/QUOTE]
Players gonna play. Pimps gonna pimp. It's a power fantasy thing.
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[QUOTE=terrancejameson;4722503]Shaw thought it was pretty funny. Scott is trying his best to keep a straight face. Emma is offended and embarrassed. She didn’t laugh off their basic shade, her reaction lended credence to accusation. All three reactions did really. It’s all right if Emma has her not so fresh days. She gets fine ass men and they clearly don’t care that her vagina has an odor.[/QUOTE]
lmfao I love you so much. cyclops and shaw have a kink for stinky c@@ch!!!! lolol
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[QUOTE=Kitty&Piotr<3;4723194]Players gonna play. Pimps gonna pimp. It's a power fantasy thing.[/QUOTE]
Hickman wrote Scott as a player on the 2nd issue of x-men. Writers really like to play fantasies using Cyclops
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Two males and two females in an open relationship = total male power fantasy
Alright then. Not exactly MY fantasy, but you do you.
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I remember very well JDW hinting that Scott could get Emma and Jean. I very much doubt Logan gonna have anything to do with this.
Relationship without commmitment? really a male fantasy
These days seems like readers have to ask writers to write characters as theirselves not some mouthpiece.
Even if I think this not gonna happen, I alrady saw marvel greenlight some bad stories, so I have to be prepared.
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[QUOTE=spirit2011;4723246]I remember very well JDW hinting that Scott could get Emma and Jean. I very much doubt Logan gonna have anything to do with this.
Relationship without commmitment? really a male fantasy
These days seems like readers have to ask writers to write characters as theirselves not some mouthpiece.
Even if I think this not gonna happen, I alrady saw marvel greenlight some bad stories, so I have to be prepared.[/QUOTE]
You've seen the data pages, you've seen the screenshots of Jean being very friendly with Logan, but if you want to ignore that to insist Scott is awful and horrible and a Gary Stu author mouthpiece (who just got his ass kicked in by three 80-year old women in a book the creator directly wrote), you do you.
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I'm not a fan of this status (I'm not saying that poly is wrong, it isn't) but this is not something that is happening only to Scott but also Jean.
Marvel said at the same time that Jean was doing the same. Not Emma or any other girl but Jean
It is not my fantasy and I'm not a fan of this but trying to be objective both characters are doing the same thing, not only scott.
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[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4723254]You've seen the data pages, you've seen the screenshots of Jean being very friendly with Logan, but if you want to ignore that to insist Scott is awful and horrible and a Gary Stu author mouthpiece (who just got his ass kicked in by three 80-year old women in a book the creator directly wrote), you do you.[/QUOTE]
Jean was always friendly with Logan and nothing ever happened. If it is so obvious why they just don't reveal then? 1. wont happen 2 there is a twist that is not what people thinks.
[QUOTE=phoenixzero23;4723257]I'm not a fan of this status (I'm not saying that poly is wrong, it isn't) but this is not something that is happening only to Scott but also Jean.
Marvel said at the same time that Jean was doing the same. Not Emma or any other girl but Jean
It is not my fantasy and I'm not a fan of this but trying to be objective both characters are doing the same thing, not only scott.[/QUOTE]
Jean was never allowed to get another man that wasn't Scott? how this would change now?
I'm skeptical. JDW interviews doesn't paint another partner for Jean. He even said they gave another partner for Jean on AOX because she only had Scott, why would he do that when he knew the plans?it was a matter of months to it happen.
then on a interview he teased Emma and Jean with Scott, no mention of Logan.
Kitty&piotr and me being skeptical has many evidence to support us
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[QUOTE=spirit2011;4723274]Jean was always friendly with Logan and nothing ever happened. If it is so obvious why they just don't reveal then? 1. wont happen 2 there is a twist that is not what people thinks.[/QUOTE]
And Scott and Emma and Jean were never in an open relationship. Things change. If you want to use the only implied evidence that Scott is sexually dominating both Jean and Emma, but ignore the equally implied evidence that Logan is part of that, I'm not sure what to say.
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[QUOTE=spirit2011;4723274]
Kitty&piotr and me being skeptical has many evidence to support us[/QUOTE]
I don't have anything againts jogan or Wolverine but the only tease so far is with Wolverine (which is not a bad thing). That's more than what she has with scott at the moment
and they don't even let her be with scott (they haven't been together for 15 years, nobody remembers them as a functional couple) to say that is because Marvel cares about their relationship (they don't, Beast had more of a relationship with Jean than Scott, even if brief).
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Honestly, I think the best thing within this new turn might be to establish the characters within it as individually as possible before going into the romance aspect. Or, at least with Jean, Scott, Emma and Logan. Like...establish [I]them[/I], what they feel, what they want to accomplish, their goals first [I]before[/I] how they compliment each other romantically. Have platonic relationships by all means! In fact, [I]build off of that!![/I] True romance blossoms from that base understanding, after all, and [I]then[/I] delve into it.
I personally love seeing the couple characters as individuals just as much as with each other; it's why Gambit and Rogue's marriage seemed to mean so much when it finally happened--they'd had years of having their own introspective adventures and perspectives laid out for us to see that when it [I]happened,[/I] after all the growth we saw them go through, it felt just so amazing!
Ironically, for a slow burn author, I think Hickman might need a bit more patience with that aspect of the plot.
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[QUOTE=Domino_Dare-Doll;4723326]Honestly, I think the best thing within this new turn might be to establish the characters within it as individually as possible before going into the romance aspect. Or, at least with Jean, Scott, Emma and Logan. Like...establish [I]them[/I], what they feel, what they want to accomplish, their goals first [I]before[/I] how they compliment each other romantically. Have platonic relationships by all means! In fact, [I]build off of that!![/I] True romance blossoms from that base understanding, after all, and [I]then[/I] delve into it.
I personally love seeing the couple characters as individuals just as much as with each other; it's why Gambit and Rogue's marriage seemed to mean so much when it finally happened--they'd had years of having their own introspective adventures and perspectives laid out for us to see that when it [I]happened,[/I] after all the growth we saw them go through, it felt just so amazing!
Ironically, for a slow burn author, I think Hickman might need a bit more patience with that aspect of the plot.[/QUOTE]
Gambit and Rogue was good because they have their fair share of adventures separated. I didn't cared for them, but the mini sold very well that they belonged together.
Logan, Emma and Scott are all established characters. i don't think they need more to stablish their individuality.
Jean needs more work, she came back last year and had little character development that was later ignored.
I don't see this working at all. Specially that Hickman regressed Jean, and a 4 way seems even more regressing
[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4723286]And Scott and Emma and Jean were never in an open relationship. Things change. If you want to use the only implied evidence that Scott is sexually dominating both Jean and Emma, but ignore the equally implied evidence that Logan is part of that, I'm not sure what to say.[/QUOTE]
things change or the writer is ignoring the characters stories so they become posterboys to his new status quo?
I'm not ignoring the Logan tease, but saw it hundreds of time to not go anywhere.
and have more evidence of it not happening, than happening
[QUOTE=phoenixzero23;4723293]I don't have anything againts jogan or Wolverine but the only tease so far is with Wolverine (which is not a bad thing). That's more than what she has with scott at the moment
and they don't even let her be with scott (they haven't been together for 15 years, nobody remembers them as a functional couple) to say that is because Marvel cares about their relationship (they don't, Beast had more of a relationship with Jean than Scott, even if brief).[/QUOTE]
you mean teen beast and jeen? that lasted on epage and was later dismissed.
Another thing I noticed Jean is single. At least she was called Ms Grey on X-force
I don't think poly will have anything to do with her
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[QUOTE=Domino_Dare-Doll;4723326]Honestly, I think the best thing within this new turn might be to establish the characters within it as individually as possible before going into the romance aspect. Or, at least with Jean, Scott, Emma and Logan. Like...establish [I]them[/I], what they feel, what they want to accomplish, their goals first [I]before[/I] how they compliment each other romantically. Have platonic relationships by all means! In fact, [I]build off of that!![/I] True romance blossoms from that base understanding, after all, and [I]then[/I] delve into it.
I personally love seeing the couple characters as individuals just as much as with each other; it's why Gambit and Rogue's marriage seemed to mean so much when it finally happened--they'd had years of having their own introspective adventures and perspectives laid out for us to see that when it [I]happened,[/I] after all the growth we saw them go through, it felt just so amazing!
Ironically, for a slow burn author, I think Hickman might need a bit more patience with that aspect of the plot.[/QUOTE]
They do have years of individual personal development...it's all there In the XM-back issues. HiX-Man isn't using them blindly. He's obviously (well maybe not so obvious to some) taken into account all the relationship drama that has transpired between them and decided he wanted to go a different route and place their romantic history with each other in a different context.
It really is just that simple.
It's the readers who, in trying to make sense of it, makes it more compkex than it is...making Everests out of anthills.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;4723919]They do have years of individual personal development...it's all there In the XM-back issues. HiX-Man isn't using them blindly. He's obviously (well maybe not so obvious to some) taken into account all the relationship drama that has transpired between them and decided he wanted to go a different route and place their romantic history with each other in a different context.
It really is just that simple.
It's the readers who, in trying to make sense of it, makes it more compkex than it is...making Everests out of anthills.[/QUOTE]
Maybe, but does it hurt to properly establish and, therefore, contextualise it from [I]within[/I] this new era? It would give us not only better insight as to where the characters are coming from, but truly highlight their strengths and weaknesses on their own terms rather than in relation to each other's romantic status.
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X-Men#3 was awesome.Jonathan Hickman writes the X-men stories quite well.
Yu art in this story,it shows why he is a great choice to be the artist of this comic book.
And last but not least i liked how in this story the funny scenes were written,that scene when of the villiains said she broken the hip to Cyclops for example was quite funny.