[QUOTE=BlkGldBlu;5104347]Gosh if we get a Before the Storm Disney plus series.
I need their love story to be epic so when they breakup I can be truly devastated . Lol[/QUOTE]
when who breaks up?
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[QUOTE=BlkGldBlu;5104347]Gosh if we get a Before the Storm Disney plus series.
I need their love story to be epic so when they breakup I can be truly devastated . Lol[/QUOTE]
when who breaks up?
[QUOTE=stormphoenix;5104022]I think it’s implied that he gave her one a long time ago? IDK I’m guessing. Because she pulled a Vibranium Knife out of her Ass and I don’t remember T’Challa Or the Dora ever giving Storm such weapons.
Unless.......Storm stole them!!!! That THEIF LOL[/QUOTE]
Nevermind, my answer was already given in another post.
[QUOTE=stormphoenix;5104022]I think it’s implied that he gave her one a long time ago? IDK I’m guessing. Because she pulled a Vibranium Knife out of her Ass and I don’t remember T’Challa Or the Dora ever giving Storm such weapons.
Unless.......Storm stole them!!!! That THEIF LOL[/QUOTE]
Speaking of Storm being a thief and stealing, wouldn't it be great if they showed some panels of Storm actually stealing someone's weapon, powerful gem, or whatever while they're fighting? Maybe they've already done it but i've yet to see it.
[QUOTE=metalclouds;5104537]Speaking of Storm being a thief and stealing, wouldn't it be great if they showed some panels of Storm actually stealing someone's weapon, powerful gem, or whatever while they're fighting? Maybe they've already done it but i've yet to see it.[/QUOTE]
In that GotG crossover with the mirror, she pulled a sword from Gammora's cosmic cloak or whatever to counter her strike.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5104276]you better tie all these elements together. and let me add one more thing:
[img]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/cfs4NR3KVtR4SbRyzAM9nA-1200-80.jpg[/img]
life on one side and death on the other, equally balanced. somethings brewing.[/QUOTE]
Could this be Storm corrupted by Anubis...is that what that cover is hinting at?
I mean she is dancing with Anubis the Egyptian Death God.
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She looks like the Bride of Apocalypse. Is it time for a new villian to take an interest in her? Its been a while
[QUOTE=Havok83;5104648]She looks like the Bride of Apocalypse. Is it time for a new villian to take an interest in her? Its been a while[/QUOTE]
True, true...lol
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5104313]its been long time coming. when was the last time an x-men story centered around ororo, maybe Claremont era? oh i xmen world apart and her solo would count.[/QUOTE]
The Inhumans era, in a very technical sense, and of course, they didn't exactly go out of their way to highlight her at that time either.
[QUOTE=LordAllMIghty;5104644]Could this be Storm corrupted by Anubis...is that what that cover is hinting at?
I mean she is dancing with Anubis the Egyptian Death God.
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Yes yes yes! I have been saying to my cat all along that both sides are Storm! And he just looks at me! This is sense making!
[QUOTE=BadBadBeans;5104745]Yes yes yes! I have been saying to my cat all along that both sides are Storm! And he just looks at me! This is sense making![/QUOTE]
To add a little more grease to the fire.
[B]"That which was once the harmonious lifting of voices".[/b]
Could be going back to Storm leading the mutants in a chant when the X-Men were revived.
HoX #5
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[QUOTE=LordAllMIghty;5104769]To add a little more grease to the fire.
[B]"That which was once the harmonious lifting of voices".[/b]
Could be going back to Storm leading the mutants in a chant when the X-Men were revived.
HoX #5
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I don't know why, but I still dislike her speech in that specific moment... she keeps calling them brothers and sisters in this dark twisted way, bothers me, quite a bit. I kinda liked her more in Marauders, she was represented much better with them.
[QUOTE=The92Ghost;5104817]I don't know why, but I still dislike her speech in that specific moment... she keeps calling them brothers and sisters in this dark twisted way, bothers me, quite a bit. I kinda liked her more in Marauders, she was represented much better with them.[/QUOTE]
You know, that’s not the part that bothers me, though they’re kind of related - it’s the bit that comes after with the rallying cry of “Mutant!” It really rubs me the wrong way; it feels less like a rallying cry for a long-lost nation, and more like a rallying cry for a White Supremacist march. �� Maybe I’m reading too much into it. Anyone else get the heebie-jeebies from that part?
[QUOTE=BadBadBeans;5104836]You know, that’s not the part that bothers me, though they’re kind of related - it’s the bit that comes after with the rallying cry of “Mutant!” It really rubs me the wrong way; it feels less like a rallying cry for a long-lost nation, and more like a rallying cry for a White Supremacist march. �� Maybe I’m reading too much into it. Anyone else get the heebie-jeebies from that part?[/QUOTE]
I meant the whole speech, including the "Mutant!" part... I believe it is a Supremacist march, as well and so unbefitting for Storm's personality and nature.
[QUOTE=Kitty&Piotr<3;5104710]The Inhumans era, in a very technical sense, and of course, they didn't exactly go out of their way to highlight her at that time either.[/QUOTE]
I see ivx a bit differently. it took all we knew of her, being a leader who cab make tough decisions when necessary, ripped that to shreds and in in its place left us an incompetent, pushover. even with that ivx still felt very much ma/cyclops story as emma was pulling all the strings and ororo was kinda there for the ride.
[QUOTE=BadBadBeans;5104836]You know, that’s not the part that bothers me, though they’re kind of related - it’s the bit that comes after with the rallying cry of “Mutant!” It really rubs me the wrong way; it feels less like a rallying cry for a long-lost nation, and more like a rallying cry for a White Supremacist march. �� Maybe I’m reading too much into it. Anyone else get the heebie-jeebies from that part?[/QUOTE]
Nope. Not me. I got strong familial ties to those she's fought alongside and the solidarity and pride that comes with knowing and loving Who and What you are despite what others may say and think.
[QUOTE=The92Ghost;5104817]I don't know why, but I still dislike her speech in that specific moment... she keeps calling them brothers and sisters in this dark twisted way, bothers me, quite a bit. I kinda liked her more in Marauders, she was represented much better with them.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BadBadBeans;5104836]You know, that’s not the part that bothers me, though they’re kind of related - it’s the bit that comes after with the rallying cry of “Mutant!” It really rubs me the wrong way; it feels less like a rallying cry for a long-lost nation, and more like a rallying cry for a White Supremacist march. �� Maybe I’m reading too much into it. Anyone else get the heebie-jeebies from that part?[/QUOTE]
Well, that is one way of looking at it sure. But look at the words Storm is saying. She’s not Spewing a Hate Speech like a Normal Supremacist would.
The ONLY person that has been consistent with his Mutant Supremacy motto is Magneto. But on the other hand I can see why you would think the X-Men are Supremacist. However, Based on the Comics we’ve been reading. They are Not.
Hickman knew what he was doing when he wrote that. Clearly, he wanted us to question if the X-Men are Heroes or Villains. But again look at what has transpired since Krakoa became a Nation. It’s pretty clear the X-Men are neither Hero or Villains. They have the exact same problem and issue like any other real Nation.
Only problem is they are more Dangerous. Lol
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5104906]Nope. Not me. I got strong familial ties to those she's fought alongside and the solidarity and pride that comes with knowing and loving Who and What you are despite what others may say and think.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. White supremacy was the farthest thing from my mind reading that speech lol I got a sense of empowerment, of awe, and defintely a sense of familial ties. The Ressurection of the X-Men and the Conquering of Death a badass iconic moment for Storm and the X-Men.
[QUOTE=stormphoenix;5104990]Well, that is one way of looking at it sure. But look at the words Storm is saying. She’s not Spewing a Hate Speech like a Normal Supremacist would.
The ONLY person that has been consistent with his Mutant Supremacy motto is Magneto. But on the other hand I can see why you would think the X-Men are Supremacist. However, Based on the Comics we’ve been reading. They are Not.
Hickman knew what he was doing when he wrote that. Clearly, he wanted us to question if the X-Men are Heroes or Villains. But again look at what has transpired since Krakoa became a Nation. It’s pretty clear the X-Men are neither Hero or Villains. They have the exact same problem and issue like any other real Nation.
Only problem is they are more Dangerous. Lol[/QUOTE]
I don’t believe either of us meant to imply the X-Men are actually supremacists, at least not in a negative way. I was referring to the particular ritual so-to-speak that was being performed. If you don’t like the term supremacist, maybe think of it as being “cult-like”, to help you get a sense of what it looks like to some of us.
[QUOTE=BadBadBeans;5105048]I don’t believe either of us meant to imply the X-Men are actually supremacists, at least not in a negative way. I was referring to the particular ritual so-to-speak that was being performed. If you don’t like the term supremacist, maybe think of it as being “cult-like”, to help you get a sense of what it looks like to some of us.[/QUOTE]
I like to think of it as the birth of Krakoan nationalism which I suppose nationalism can be considered a kind of cult like mindset.
[QUOTE=BadBadBeans;5104836]You know, that’s not the part that bothers me, though they’re kind of related - it’s the bit that comes after with the rallying cry of “Mutant!” It really rubs me the wrong way; it feels less like a rallying cry for a long-lost nation, and more like a rallying cry for a White Supremacist march. �� Maybe I’m reading too much into it. Anyone else get the heebie-jeebies from that part?[/QUOTE]
I think context is key when it comes to pride based around identity. For so long mutants have had to hide who they are so seeing them express some open pride about it was refreshing. It’s a very thin line though because you also have Magneto and Apocalypse walking around who have no problem weaponizing that pride.
[QUOTE=LordAllMIghty;5104769]To add a little more grease to the fire.
[B]"That which was once the harmonious lifting of voices".[/b]
Could be going back to Storm leading the mutants in a chant when the X-Men were revived.
HoX #5
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thats most likely a way to conect the two characters, but storm shows up on the destruction cover with the mysterious woman, I 100 % belive they are conected, that this card shows us an ororo ancestor that has been corrupted, and the mutants of arrako that were once harmonious like the ones in krakoa directed by Ororo, have gone silent as we know their numbers have dwindled
And no, storm wasnt leading the crowd for hatred of humans, but about a type of pride and joy many mutants havent been able to feel, ororo however has had Pride and joy in her abilities, on her identity as a mutant, she was the perfect conductor for the crowd.
In that moment she was using her inherited charisma and pure strength of soul to uplift a culture that has never been lifted into the levels of divine that Storm embodies, in a speech that embraced mutants for their traits and story and their victory rising above the constant non stop agression and death by the merit of their own power, and embraced her family , her loved ones returned from the dead
It was a moment that captured WHY storm is so important, not because of an iconic visual design or powers, but her unique brand of humanity and compassion laced with divinity.
So I cant really see what makes it seem like a supremicist rally, since no hatred or incitation to violence was being created, it was a celebration of mutantkind's new found power and unity, humans were the cause but they were irrelevant before what was happening on the hatchery.
And, to think I was totally under the impression that Ororo was a mutant... Her unique brand of humanity?
[QUOTE=Micabe;5105142]And, to think I was totally under the impression that Ororo was a mutant... Her unique brand of humanity?[/QUOTE]
humanity when used as an adjective means: he quality of being humane; benevolence.
[QUOTE=BadBadBeans;5104836]You know, that’s not the part that bothers me, though they’re kind of related - it’s the bit that comes after with the rallying cry of “Mutant!” It really rubs me the wrong way; it feels less like a rallying cry for a long-lost nation, and more like a rallying cry for a White Supremacist march. �� Maybe I’m reading too much into it. Anyone else get the heebie-jeebies from that part?[/QUOTE]
If i had to guess, i would say that feeling comes from subciously or even directly associating such a display of rallying around an identity or goal with similar scenes in real world history and sadly the more common assocation of that involves negative outcomes.
What one might see as display of unity and empowerment for a group, others might see as worrying display of growing fanatism, extremism or lust for destruction against an percieved enemy.
It's the same reason why hearing of "revolution" or "rebellion" happening in a country gets people worried, because history has shown the trend more often goes towards bad things happening from it than good.
One moment it's about removing a dictator and next it's killing the "enemies of the revolution" which involves man, woman and children. One moment it's about freedom of the working class and next it's throwing people in gullags for demanding better working conditions. One moment it's about making a nation strong and next it's conquering other nations for being weak or hindering their strength.
There have, of course, been successfull and peacefull revolutions, with good outcomes, but the examples of bad sadly seem to outweight the good ones throughout history. Hence tarnishing the association with the words.
Body language in such rallying can especialy play a role in how that is associated. Cheering and clapping is usualy percieved as "safe" display of positive emotion and unity, but even that can feel wrong given the context. Just think of various dictatorships and their "let's cheer the great leader" gatherings.
An outstreched arm, especialy when held in an angle and involving the hand balled into a fist, often speaks of anger and readiness for violence, which makes it alarming to see for many outsiders.
While it's also used for non-violent protest or groups where the anger and outrage is understandable and the goals admirable, it's also much used by extermist groups or people driven into an emotional frenzy that will lead to destruction and murder.
It's a very charged/dangerous gesture to use and very context sensetive in how it can be read.
Then there is the context of what is shouted. A peace oriented slogan for a better life is less worrying than proclaiming an identity, especialy when said identity has been misused several times by supremacists as reason to perform violence against others.
If thousands of people would gather around a stage, where someone holds a passionate speech about how great and better they are than "the others", while everyone raises their fists and shouts their identity, it becomes very context sensetive.
If it's for example the "congress of pacifist for a better world", it would mostly seem odd or maybe charming. But if it's say people of a country or members of a cultural group with a recent destructive violent past it would be seen as very alarming.
And here is the thing. Throughout X-men history the term and identity of "mutant" or "homo superior" has been missued as reason for violence and destruction by mutants for petty, self serving or evil reasons a lot.
The number of mutant villains is about equal if not outweighting the number of heros. So just as much as "mutant" has been used as peacefull identity by the X-men and their allies it has also been used for evil just as much.
It doesn't help that from a narrative point the mutants gathered around Storm are faceless, nameless, interchangable blanks. So the reader has no clue how they are oriented as collective. They could just as much be a peacefull gathering as much as a violent mob a few further speeches away from going on a war against the rest of the world.
Since there is no context established around these people. All these random backround mutants are a new creation, from a context that has been dropped on the X-men franchise like a concrete block.
With Morlocks or Genoshans one would have a relative good picture of who they are, what their history is and what they have been through, since both these large groups of "civilian" mutants are well established. But these Krakoan masses of mutants were just snapped into existance without context or proper history.
So with Storm's big speech we have someone on a stage talking about the greatness of "mutants", a term multiple times missused as reason for doing evil and therefor charged, encouraging a display of body language that is very charged aswell, talking to a narratively unestablished mass of said mutants, who could just as much have peacefull intentions or waiting for excuse to go on a crusade.
Hence it's no suprise that such scene can feel wrong or dangerous to some readers, given that the historic context for such moments has more often resulted in bad events than good events. Even if the intentions of the speakers or masses were good.
While for other readers, when seen through a lense of "oppressed minority joining force", it might feel empowering.
Doesn't help that the X-men themselves have started to throw around comments of superiority or dominance over "humans" in the last two decades, which in the past would have been more what their enemies used to say.
The problem is that we have to wait until the resolution of this overaching Dawn of X narrative to learn if these worries were unfunded or right on the money.
Beautifully put, Grunly. You detailed the feeling exactly.
any news about Coates' black panther?
I can't be mad at any group getting together and uplifting themselves when there is no hate at the "other" directed. A KKK rally is a group of people getting together in their hate to enjoy their supposed supremacy.
To me as a black man that is different then a group of black people getting together and celebrating each other with no mention of the "other" It's a time to uplift each other in a world where other people are always attacking you and trying to hold you down simply for existing. They have the tv, the media, etc, all you have is each other and that is okay to support and uplift each other for what you actually are as opposed to what you think you are in comparison to others.
That was a situation where mutants killed where brought back and they yelled out a rallying cry for each other saying we are here we exist. IMO people with unclear thoughts are more inclined to see this scene as some sort of negative supremacy because imo those are the thoughts they have when they get together.
[QUOTE=HeraldOfStorm;5105179]any news about Coates' black panther?[/QUOTE]
CB Cebulski stated that the books are coming but he didn't specify a date.
[QUOTE=BadBadBeans;5105048]I don’t believe either of us meant to imply the X-Men are actually supremacists, at least not in a negative way. I was referring to the particular ritual so-to-speak that was being performed. If you don’t like the term supremacist, maybe think of it as being “cult-like”, to help you get a sense of what it looks like to some of us.[/QUOTE]
Oh no no. I understood what you meant. Which is why it can be taken completely the wrong way and run some people the wrong way too. But at the end of the day this wasn’t a Hate Rally. If it were Magneto or Apocalypse or Exodus that addressed the Mutants THEN I’d be inclined to believe that. Because those particular Mutants I’ve mentioned are for Cultism and Supremacy. Storm isn’t. Which is why Hickmans so brilliantly did this.
We’ve seen everywhere how Storm has been one of the most influential face in Mutantkind and we saw it in all its glory. That whole Speech Storm gave was uplifting and showing how proud they are at being a Mutant. And that Mutants are FINALLY FREE. And those Fist symbolizes Freedom. Kinda like how BLM movement and our history of Equality.
[QUOTE=jwatson;5105220]I can't be mad at any group getting together and uplifting themselves when there is no hate at the "other" directed. A KKK rally is a group of people getting together in their hate to enjoy their supposed supremacy.
To me as a black man that is different then a group of black people getting together and celebrating each other with no mention of the "other" It's a time to uplift each other in a world where other people are always attacking you and trying to hold you down simply for existing. They have the tv, the media, etc, all you have is each other and that is okay to support and uplift each other for what you actually are as opposed to what you think you are in comparison to others.
That was a situation where mutants killed where brought back and they yelled out a rallying cry for each other saying we are here we exist. IMO people with unclear thoughts are more inclined to see this scene as some sort of negative supremacy because imo those are the thoughts they have when they get together.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Great Point.
How’s this any different than what we do here in the real world.
[QUOTE=stormphoenix;5105479]Oh no no. I understood what you meant. Which is why it can be taken completely the wrong way and run some people the wrong way too. But at the end of the day this wasn’t a Hate Rally. If it were Magneto or Apocalypse or Exodus that addressed the Mutants THEN I’d be inclined to believe that. Because those particular Mutants I’ve mentioned are for Cultism and Supremacy. Storm isn’t. Which is why Hickmans so brilliantly did this.
We’ve seen everywhere how Storm has been one of the most influential face in Mutantkind and we saw it in all its glory. But again I do see why this would rub you the wrong way. To be honest at 1st I didn’t like. But I re-read it because it was powerful and uplifting that Mutants are FINALLY FREE. [B]And those Fist symbolizes Freedom....IMO. Kinda like how BLM movement and our history of Equality[/B].[/QUOTE]
I totally equated that scene with the current BLM and Black Empowerment/Black Acceptance.
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5105486]I totally equated that scene with the current BLM and Black Empowerment/Black Acceptance.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
Look at how the Mutants throw their Fists in the air and tell me you don’t hear this in your head: “I’m Black and I’m proud”. LOL it’s exactly the same.
Exactatiously. It was meaningful and powerful and a declaration of and for the times.
[QUOTE=stormphoenix;5105479]Oh no no. I understood what you meant. Which is why it can be taken completely the wrong way and run some people the wrong way too. But at the end of the day this wasn’t a Hate Rally. If it were Magneto or Apocalypse or Exodus that addressed the Mutants THEN I’d be inclined to believe that. Because those particular Mutants I’ve mentioned are for Cultism and Supremacy. Storm isn’t. Which is why Hickmans so brilliantly did this.
We’ve seen everywhere how Storm has been one of the most influential face in Mutantkind and we saw it in all its glory. That whole Speech Storm gave was uplifting and showing how proud they are at being a Mutant. And that Mutants are FINALLY FREE. And those Fist symbolizes Freedom. Kinda like how BLM movement and our history of Equality.[/QUOTE]
Again, I never said it was hateful, or a hate rally. I don’t think it’s meant to be anything but joyful and uplifting. The problem is that there are two trains of thought about Krakoa right now: one that it is a utopia just like it seems, and everything is just as it appears. There is another train of thought, which I subscribe to, which says that ultimately there’s more than meets the eye to Krakoa, and it will show itself to some extent, I think, in the X of Swords series. If you follow that train of thought, that here’s something not quite right, then you can see how that scene plays itself a little differently. Different people, different ideas. We’ll see what happens.
[QUOTE=BadBadBeans;5105554]Again, I never said it was hateful, or a hate rally. I don’t think it’s meant to be anything but joyful and uplifting. The problem is that there are two trains of thought about Krakoa right now: one that it is a utopia just like it seems, and everything is just as it appears. There is another train of thought, which I subscribe to, which says that ultimately there’s more than meets the eye to Krakoa, and it will show itself to some extent, I think, in the X of Swords series. If you follow that train of thought, that here’s something not quite right, then you can see how that scene plays itself a little differently. Different people, different ideas. We’ll see what happens.[/QUOTE]
Well, you did say that it felt like a rallying cry for a White Supremacist march. Which is what I was addressing that it wasn’t. In any case we shall see what reveals in the end.
[QUOTE=BadBadBeans;5105554]Again, I never said it was hateful, or a hate rally. I don’t think it’s meant to be anything but joyful and uplifting. The problem is that there are two trains of thought about Krakoa right now: one that it is a utopia just like it seems, and everything is just as it appears. There is another train of thought, which I subscribe to, which says that ultimately there’s more than meets the eye to Krakoa, and it will show itself to some extent, I think, in the X of Swords series. If you follow that train of thought, that here’s something not quite right, then you can see how that scene plays itself a little differently. Different people, different ideas. We’ll see what happens.[/QUOTE]
Yea personally I've seen a handful of red herrings that not everything is as it seems but it's hard to tell where things will end up. Hickman has a reputation for putting his characters through the emotional and physical ringer (see New Avengers) so it's kinda weird to think that the X-Men won't have a reckoning about some of the changes they've had.
Part of that might be rooted in the lies of omission of Xavier, the moral compromises they're making in X-Force, them taking "preemptive measures" by spying on the Avengers, etc. I don't think Krakoa is going to fail completely and never be seen again, but I definitely think some things are off. The speech Storm made in HOX may or may not be connected to that but it did herald in the new era we're in so who's to say.
I don't think she sounded like a white supremacist but the overt pride the mutants are showing opens up the door to normalized supremacy that may work against Krakoa in the future (as pride of any kind does, white or otherwise). But from what we've seen Storm continues to upkeep her relationships in the wider world and advocates for other mutants to do the same so I think her character has been kept in tact.
[QUOTE=stormphoenix;5105580]Well, you did say that it felt like a rallying cry for a White Supremacist march. Which is what I was addressing that it wasn’t. In any case we shall see what reveals in the end.[/QUOTE]
Correct. I did say that. The up-raised fists, the cry of “mutant”. That part specifically can be read more than one way. I still think it can be ambiguous. I never specifically said it was a White Supremacist rally or that Storm was a White Supremacist. I would never say that. Moving on..
I wonder how many of those "up-raised fisted" Krakoans are really secret Black Panther Party sympathisers ...
Does anyone know when some preview art will be dropping for the giant size issue? I feel like I'm going to be let down with the issus unfortunately.