Never liked Ororo with BP, hope their relationship is done for good.
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Never liked Ororo with BP, hope their relationship is done for good.
[QUOTE=BlkGldBlu;5177450]I don't see it as over. Just the beginning.
Storm clearly stated " you better let me pass or you already know.."[/QUOTE]
We may get a "Mea Culpa" moment after XoS is done.
We may just see a page with T'Challa walking into his private quarters and Skybreaker is on his bed. (Storm don't need no gateway) The window is open, a fragrant Wakandan breeze stirring the drapery. There's a flash of lightning and the sound of thunder in the distance. He smiles to himself and says..."My Goddess".
Or we may not...
I won't fault anyone for not taking up the relationship mantle on either side as it's not very important to either character at this time.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5177439][COLOR="#000080"]I'll say it again, I don't care how they ended it. The X-office did what they normally do and it's no surprise to me or alot of other people.
If this means that Storm and BP are done then I'm very happy. Here's the thing tho', Avengers wasn't throwing shade at Storm the way the X-offices throws shade at BP and Wakanda. Agents of Wakanda didn't throw shade.
They could have parted without the drama but like I said, if this puts the nail in the coffin then thank you Vita, you did us a ll a favor.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
vita and their xcrew didn't do me any favors. but whatever their true colors have been shown and in that regard I am appreciative.
but why do you think that is? why do the avengers side show respect while the xoffices depict the opposite?
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177461][video=youtube_share;D-QEjER-its]https://youtu.be/D-QEjER-its[/video][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]My review:
[SPOIL]They create some bs story about a sword that was created long ago in Wakanda, a sword that so powerful, a sword that no one outside of this comicbook has ever heard of. A sword that Storm needs.
So, with back drop, Storm heads to Wakanda to get the sword. yada yada yada i need the sword yada yada yada the sword is sacred we can't allow you to take it. yada yada yada I'll steal it yada yada yada T'Challa you don't have time for me yada yada yada I was a mutant before I was a wife or black yada yada yada Wakanda is bad.[/SPOIL]
It's over.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5177338][COLOR="#000080"]I read you review. It was well thought out and explained everything perfectly. I agree with everything you said.
To Vito, all I can say is thank you. Thank you for exposing the hypocrisy of the X-books. Always manufacturing that fake drama with Storm and BP.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Storm is and has always been an X-Men Character, the BP books stole her, change her nationality and backstory and turn her into a throphy wife while mutants were being hunted and Wakanda did nothing. But sure the X office are the bad guys.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177487]vita and their xcrew didn't do me any favors. but whatever their true colors have been shown and in that regard I am appreciative.
but why do you think that is? why do the avengers side show respect while the xoffices depict the opposite?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]No, no BK. Read my post carefully, I said that the Avengers did not throw shade at Storm. They didn't portray the marriage either but you didn't see them have BP kissing on someone else or someone talking down about Storm either.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Milici;5177499]Storm is and has always been an X-Men Character, the BP books stole her, change her nationality and backstory and turn her into a throphy wife while mutants were being hunted and Wakanda did nothing. But sure the X office are the bad guys.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Hmm.....yeah, okay.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5177502][COLOR="#000080"]No, no BK. Read my post carefully, I said that the Avengers did not throw shade at Storm. They didn't portray the marriage either but you didn't see them have BP kissing on someone else or someone talking down about Storm either.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
yes I knew what you meant but thats my question. you have tchalla in agents of wakanda using ororo as a password to her ship but on the xside tchalla can't bother to answer or return a message? why he is portrayed so sh!tty on one side of the aisle?
Respect?! give me a freaking break, the BP books never show respect for the X-Books, they even change her origin. Storm stop showing love for Kenya and Egypt and now is all about Wakanda, Don't they have any original black female character that they have to stole the must popular from her family?
I enjoyed this issue but would have liked it more if they gave Storm a more noble and elegant solution then just being in a rush. She could've figure out there was no way accepting the blade from Wakanda's royal family twihout heavy consequences for them, so stealing it would have been the only solution for her to have the sword and still not harming Wakanda's inner politics. She would be the only one to blame. And I guess Shuri would have accepted that. No?
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177506]yes I knew what you meant but thats my question. you have tchalla in agents of wakanda using ororo as a password to her ship but on the xside tchalla can't bother to answer or return a message? why he is portrayed so sh!tty on one side of the aisle?[/QUOTE]
X-books drive on drama. The question is never "How do we make this work?" and more "How to we derive the most emotion out of it?"
[QUOTE=MentalManipulator;5177510]I enjoyed this issue but would have liked it more if they gave Storm a more noble and elegant solution then just being in a rush. She could've figure out there was no way accepting the blade from Wakanda's royal family twihout heavy consequences for them, so stealing it would have been the only solution for her to have the sword and still not harming Wakanda's inner politics. She would be the only one to blame. And I guess Shuri would have accepted that. No?[/QUOTE]
exactly. if she had literally waited 5 minutes tchalla would have been there. this issue made her look small and impulsive unable to work with people who are allegedly her family.
Like don't get me wrong. Coates BP is PAINFULLY SLOW, but it does things like this.
[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/VL9NvG6c/image.jpg[/IMG]
X-books haven't done stuff like this in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177506]yes I knew what you meant but thats my question. you have tchalla in agents of wakanda using ororo as a password to her ship but on the xside tchalla can't bother to answer or return a message? why he is portrayed so sh!tty on one side of the aisle?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]My opinion is that they have to have that inherent bias that they need to constantly show. Even in relationships. They thrive on the drama and some people just eat that ist up.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177516]exactly. if she had literally waited 5 minutes tchalla would have been there. this issue made her look small and impulsive unable to work with people who are allegedly her family.[/QUOTE]
Her only family is in Kenya and Krakoa, she has lived and bleed with the mutants since the 60`s. This man that is his "family" publicly divorce her and chame her, he is no longer her family.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177461][video=youtube_share;D-QEjER-its]https://youtu.be/D-QEjER-its[/video][/QUOTE]
He raised good points. One of them being how Wakandans viewed Storm as a goddess under Coates. She saved them from Adversary and they literally prayed to her. The artist showed people from all over the country praying to her. So, when the podcaster said if Goddess Storm Hadari Yao came asking for a Wakandan sword then you give it to her. That makes sense but only if Coates's work isn't ignored. Why would Wakandans have a problem with their Hadari Yao borrowing a sacred sword that could possibly save their lives? Come on, most of them wouldn't.
And, okay, another poster noted that no one would've even known the sword was gone unless Ramonda, Shuri, or T'Challa told them. So true. None of this makes any sense beyond the contrivance of ending the relationship. That is not hard to discern. The logic of it all fails. But not if that motivation is factored in.
[QUOTE=Woozie;5177522]Like don't get me wrong. Coates BP is PAINFULLY SLOW, but it does things like this.
[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/VL9NvG6c/image.jpg[/IMG]
X-books haven't done stuff like this in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Woozie;5177511]X-books drive on drama. The question is never "How do we make this work?" and more "How to we derive the most emotion out of it?"[/QUOTE]
you freaking get it. coates clearly loved Claremont and his stories mirror the parts of Ckaremont we fell in love with! the current xeditors dont even understand or think it makes sense that her powers work in space lol
[img]https://marswillsendnomore.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/uncanny-x-men-165-010.jpg[/img]
but the girls go off when she uses her lightning sword as an omega in this 13 marauders issue?? uhmmm no thanks bye
[QUOTE=MentalManipulator;5177510]I enjoyed this issue but would have liked it more if they gave Storm a more noble and elegant solution then just being in a rush. She could've figure out there was no way accepting the blade from Wakanda's royal family twihout heavy consequences for them, so stealing it would have been the only solution for her to have the sword and still not harming Wakanda's inner politics. She would be the only one to blame. And I guess Shuri would have accepted that. No?[/QUOTE]
Perhaps...with hordes of other-dimensional demons massing at the gates Storm just didn't have the time nor the patience to be diplomatically elegant?
She did them the courtesy of asking for it rather than out-right stealing it from under their noses without them knowing...which could have been an option.
Going by the solicit for this issue...I was actually hoping for an Indiana Jones-type of story where she goes on an adventure/quest to retrieve the sword, encounters demons/possessed people and has to fight her way through with awesome displays of hand to hand and weather powers to get to the sword just in the nick of time but...
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5177524][COLOR="#000080"]My opinion is that they have to have that inherent bias that they need to constantly show. Even in relationships. They thrive on the drama and some people just eat that ist up.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
The X-office thrives on a perpetual victim narrative that's bolstered by their lack of willingness to incorporate non-mutant heroes into their stories. If T'Challa, Iron Man, or any hero were shown to be active in the pursuit of mutant justice it takes away from the notion that effectively every non-mutant hero is implicit in the suffering of mutants everywhere or are actively harboring anti-mutant views themselves.
So where in the Avengers office Storm's relationship with T'Challa is either ignored or put on a pedestal, the X-office sees it as something to be shown as an impediment to a "real" X-Man. A distraction or at worst a threat to the security of mutantkind. So T'Challa can't be shown as an active advocate for the mutant community, he needs to be aloof to mutant catastrophes and want his wife to completely divorce herself of those issues.
It's why a romance between them can never work in the end. T'Challa's mere existence as an X-Men ally threatens one of the core values of the modern X-office and many x-fans that have internalized that same complex. They'd sooner see Wakandans exterminating mutants than them actually standing alongside mutants as allies.
Which isn't even getting into the whole racial subtext of Storm embracing a black man as her lover, something that is certainly off-putting to a portion of the fanbase. For many Storm is post-racial, above blackness or African-ness and to see her expressing those roots, especially with a black man elicits the same kind of discomfort in some X-fans that fans of Beyonce got when she released "Formation" lol.
[QUOTE=chief12d;5177546]The X-office thrives on a perpetual victim narrative that's bolstered by their lack of willingness to incorporate non-mutant heroes into their stories. If T'Challa, Iron Man, or any hero were shown to be active in the pursuit of mutant justice it takes away from the notion that effectively every non-mutant hero is implicit in the suffering of mutants everywhere or are actively harboring anti-mutant views themselves.
So where in the Avengers office Storm's relationship with T'Challa is either ignored or put on a pedestal, the X-office sees it as something to be shown as an impediment to a "real" X-Man. A distraction or at worst a threat to the security of mutantkind. So T'Challa can't be shown as an active advocate for the mutant community, he needs to be aloof to mutant catastrophes and want his wife to completely divorce herself of those issues.
It's why a romance between them can never work in the end. T'Challa's mere existence as an X-Men ally threatens one of the core values of the modern X-office and many x-fans that have internalized that same complex. They'd sooner see Wakandans exterminating mutants than them actually standing alongside mutants as allies.
Which isn't even getting into the whole racial subtext of Storm embracing a black man as her lover, something that is certainly off-putting to a portion of the fanbase. For many Storm is post-racial, above blackness or African-ness and to see her expressing those roots, especially with a black man elicits the same kind of discomfort in some X-fans that fans of Beyonce got when she released "Formation" lol.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]You said it dude, it's about victimhood. They couldn't have found any other solution to Storm getting the sword without the nonsense[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=chief12d;5177546]The X-office thrives on a perpetual victim narrative that's bolstered by their lack of willingness to incorporate non-mutant heroes into their stories. If T'Challa, Iron Man, or any hero were shown to be active in the pursuit of mutant justice it takes away from the notion that effectively every non-mutant hero is implicit in the suffering of mutants everywhere or are actively harboring anti-mutant views themselves.
So where in the Avengers office Storm's relationship with T'Challa is either ignored or put on a pedestal, the X-office sees it as something to be shown as an impediment to a "real" X-Man. A distraction or at worst a threat to the security of mutantkind. So T'Challa can't be shown as an active advocate for the mutant community, he needs to be aloof to mutant catastrophes and want his wife to completely divorce herself of those issues.
It's why a romance between them can never work in the end. T'Challa's mere existence as an X-Men ally threatens one of the core values of the modern X-office and many x-fans that have internalized that same complex. They'd sooner see Wakandans exterminating mutants than them actually standing alongside mutants as allies.
[B]
Which isn't even getting into the whole racial subtext of Storm embracing a black man as her lover, something that is certainly off-putting to a portion of the fanbase. For many Storm is post-racial, above blackness or African-ness and to see her expressing those roots, especially with a black man elicits the same kind of discomfort in some X-fans that fans of Beyonce got when she released "Formation" lol.[/QUOTE][/B]
All of this, especially the bolded.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5177565][COLOR="#000080"]You said it dude, it's about victimhood. They couldn't have found any other solution to Storm getting the sword without the nonsense[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
exactly this!!! they had to retcon a sword into the wakanda lore to create this narrative that she knows she is. knowing who she is resulted in severing the onky real connection she has outside of being an xman. its odd she didn't have these issues when fighting alongside the Wakandans against internal and external threats.
[QUOTE=chief12d;5177546]The X-office thrives on a perpetual victim narrative that's bolstered by their lack of willingness to incorporate non-mutant heroes into their stories. If T'Challa, Iron Man, or any hero were shown to be active in the pursuit of mutant justice it takes away from the notion that effectively every non-mutant hero is implicit in the suffering of mutants everywhere or are actively harboring anti-mutant views themselves.
So where in the Avengers office Storm's relationship with T'Challa is either ignored or put on a pedestal, the X-office sees it as something to be shown as an impediment to a "real" X-Man. A distraction or at worst a threat to the security of mutantkind. So T'Challa can't be shown as an active advocate for the mutant community, he needs to be aloof to mutant catastrophes and want his wife to completely divorce herself of those issues.
It's why a romance between them can never work in the end. T'Challa's mere existence as an X-Men ally threatens one of the core values of the modern X-office and many x-fans that have internalized that same complex. They'd sooner see Wakandans exterminating mutants than them actually standing alongside mutants as allies.
[b]Which isn't even getting into the whole racial subtext of Storm embracing a black man as her lover, something that is certainly off-putting to a portion of the fanbase. For many Storm is post-racial, above blackness or African-ness and to see her expressing those roots, especially with a black man elicits the same kind of discomfort in some X-fans that fans of Beyonce got when she released "Formation" lo[/b]l.[/QUOTE]
[img]https://media.tenor.com/images/18247bba06ff9d7fd8d67a54f0d4ba43/tenor.gif[/img]
dude this post is freaking epic!!!!
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177570]exactly this!!! they had to retcon a sword into the wakanda lore to create this narrative that she knows she is. knowing who she is resulted in severing the onky real connection she has outside of being an xman. its odd she didn't have these issues when fighting alongside the Wakandans against internal and external threats.[/QUOTE]
They retconed her not being fully african in BP books but you donīt have a problem with that.
[QUOTE=Milici;5177580]They retconed her not being fully african in BP books but you donīt have a problem with that.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry come again? who did what?
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177570]exactly this!!! they had to retcon a sword into the wakanda lore to create this narrative that she knows she is. knowing who she is resulted in severing the onky real connection she has outside of being an xman. its odd she didn't have these issues when fighting alongside the Wakandans against internal and external threats.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Yeah, I'm sure BP could have used this sword in Empyre instead of asking Hulkling for his sword. Go figure.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=GuiltyPleasure;5177528]He raised good points. One of them being how Wakandans viewed Storm as a goddess under Coates. She saved them from Adversary and they literally prayed to her. The artist showed people from all over the country praying to her. So, when the podcaster said if Goddess Storm Hadari Yao came asking for a Wakandan sword then you give it to her. That makes sense but only if Coates's work isn't ignored. Why would Wakandans have a problem with their Hadari Yao borrowing a sacred sword that could possibly save their lives? Come on, most of them wouldn't.
And, okay, another poster noted that no one would've even known the sword was gone unless Ramonda, Shuri, or T'Challa told them. So true. None of this makes any sense beyond the contrivance of ending the relationship. That is not hard to discern. The logic of it all fails. But not if that motivation is factored in.[/QUOTE]
The guards were with Tchalla. One of them might have said something.
[QUOTE=Milici;5177580]They retconed her not being fully african in BP books but you donīt have a problem with that.[/QUOTE]
Her mother is Kenyan and her father was an African American from New York. I have no idea what you mean by "fully african," but that has always been her biological background. Both Coates and Hudlin acknowledged both.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177591]I'm sorry come again? who did what?[/QUOTE]
She was born in Kenya and that was always the case since her first appearence in X-Books, in the BP books they retconed her to be born in the USA because only african americans perspective matter, other african people be damn.
[QUOTE=GuiltyPleasure;5177528]He raised good points. One of them being how Wakandans viewed Storm as a goddess under Coates. She saved them from Adversary and they literally prayed to her. The artist showed people from all over the country praying to her. So, when the podcaster said if Goddess Storm Hadari Yao came asking for a Wakandan sword then you give it to her. That makes sense but only if Coates's work isn't ignored. Why would Wakandans have a problem with their Hadari Yao borrowing a sacred sword that could possibly save their lives? Come on, most of them wouldn't.
And, okay, another poster noted that no one would've even known the sword was gone unless Ramonda, Shuri, or T'Challa told them. So true. None of this makes any sense beyond the contrivance of ending the relationship. That is not hard to discern. The logic of it all fails. But not if that motivation is factored in.[/QUOTE]
his points were excellent to me . its like a mirror image of my thoughts lol. and exactly yo your first paragraph. thats my biggest issue with this story. the only way it works or makes any sense is if you completely ignore Coates bp. there are some who are fine with ignoring it and others who may have not even read it but i can't erase 4 years of development storm received because he is not writing her.
and yes yes yes to your second point. ororo going through what she did made it more visible to everyone had not shuri or the queen mother simply given it to her but of course as you stated the xwriters then would not have been able to deconstruct that aspect of her development had they not taken their approach.
[QUOTE=Milici;5177607]She was born in Kenya and that was always the case since her first appearence in X-Books, in the BP books they retconed her to be born in the USA because only african americans perspective matter, other african people be damn.[/QUOTE]
she wss born in harlem NY, to an African mother and African American father. that was always the case :/
[QUOTE=Cville;5177599]The guards were with Tchalla. One of them might have said something.[/QUOTE]
I mean from the very beginning. There was no need for the general public, even the sword's guards, to know she had the sword. They could've allowed for a clean swap and no one would've been the wiser. The fact that she went there with a replica goes to her having a contingency plan in case they rejected her request. Again, the whole thing was contrived.
[QUOTE=Milici;5177580]They retconed her not being fully african in BP books but you donīt have a problem with that.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177591]I'm sorry come again? who did what?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShortPlayfulAbalone-size_restricted.gif[/IMG]
[COLOR="#000080"]You take this one BK.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5177598][COLOR="#000080"]Yeah, I'm sure BP could have used this sword in Empyre instead of asking Hulkling for his sword. Go figure.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
right. and btw do any of the other swords mentioned used by the ancient wakandans actually real?
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5177615][IMG]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShortPlayfulAbalone-size_restricted.gif[/IMG]
[COLOR="#000080"]You take this one BK.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
lololol I can't today is just not the day!!!
[QUOTE=GuiltyPleasure;5177613]I mean from the very beginning. There was no need for the general public, even the sword's guards, to know she had the sword. They could've allowed for a clean swap and no one would've been the wiser. The fact that she went there with a replica goes to her having a contingency plan in case they rejected her request. Again, the whole thing was contrived.[/QUOTE]
exactly. that is the word of today: contrived.
[QUOTE=GuiltyPleasure;5177613]I mean from the very beginning. There was no need for the general public, even the sword's guards, to know she had the sword. They could've allowed for a clean swap and no one would've been the wiser. The fact that she went there with a replica goes to her having a contingency plan in case they rejected her request. Again, the whole thing was contrived.[/QUOTE]
Even in the first few panels with her and Kitty she spoke with a pretty heavy heart about making tough choices and all that. I don't think Storm had any intention of waiting more than a few hours for T'Challa to return, no matter what the royal family said. What's even funnier is she's one of the 1st people at the summoning circle. All that impatience for what lol.
Are you all not making too much of the issue? They still very much love each other. T'Challa still let her go with the Sword and was adequately chastised for not paying attention to her on time. This is kind of the superheroic version of a tiff about taking out the trash. At this point Storm and the Black Panther are pretty much end game. But given that they cannot very well retire to have children and keep starring on their comics, we get this sort of thing. I think it was pretty well written, and I would say her relationship with Wakanda is even stronger after the issue.
But! This is not what I wanted to ask! In this issue N'Dare is drawn with white hair in her youth. I think that is a first. Do you think they are about to retcon something in Storm past? Maybe tying her dinasty to Apocalypse via Ashake/Genesis? Or maybe to the past of Wakanda?
[QUOTE=chief12d;5177626]Even in the first few panels with her and Kitty she spoke with a pretty heavy heart about making tough choices and all that. I don't think Storm had any intention of waiting more than a few hours for T'Challa to return, no matter what the royal family said. What's even funnier is she's one of the 1st people at the summoning circle. All that impatience for what lol.[/QUOTE]
yup she knew going in she was going to steal it that is why she had the bag with fake sword. how can anyone argue that this was a good look on her? imagine if tchalla had to steal something from krakoa to protect the world? xmen fans would have a fit.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177620]right. and btw do any of the other swords mentioned used by the ancient wakandans actually real?[/QUOTE]
There are two weapon artifacts that I know of. The spear of Bashenga carried by Zuri during the Priest run. And the dagger that Tchalla and Shuri excahange with each other in Hickmans New Avengers. Also used to stab Namor.
I dont mind adding new toys to the chest, but this was wedged in while retconning at the same time. 10,000 years of history and they couldn't pick any random century except for the beginning?
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5177620]right. and btw do any of the other swords mentioned used by the ancient wakandans actually real?[/QUOTE]
A long time BP reader might now. But the scene with Ramonda and Shuri going through all of the legendary Wakandan swords they were willing to give Storm for the competition was heartbreaking to see. They were trying to do everything they could to help her. Shit, Ramonda damn near pleaded with her to show patience and wait for T'Challa. Their level of kindness and love Ayala did acknowledge made it worse, especially when Ororo was really upset about T'Challa not making time for her. Honestly, at the end of the book, her being praised by her mutant family, she didn't seem the least bit upset about what she had done. I have no idea why people think that's such a great character moment for Ororo.